Interest in Human Tribals

[dumbstruck]

I mean... okay? What if it does fizzle out after a year? That's a year of content that's being offered up for people to enjoy and play in.

I run into human tribals with vnpc tribes all the time. More in-game tribes are not going to hurt anything.

Exactly this. As someone who has played multiple tribals with vnpc tribes, having more in-game tribes to pick from only gives me the choice to have a "real" tribe. Never once have I said to myself, 'I guess I'll play in this tribe even if I don't want to because I have no other choice.'  There are also some races I have no interest in playing, like the Thryzn, which removes the Bashurit from the equation. I fully support having as many delf clans open as we do, and I heartily endorse having more human tribes as well. Let people play what they want.

All of this. I don't like playing d-elves, and don't have the desire to burn karma on a special app for a Bashurit even if they are vaguely intriguing. Anything outside human or breed is pretty much a no from me for playing personally, so while I appreciate someone's argument that there's 5 d-elf tribes open, when you factor in that Tan Muark are role calls, and Bashurit are gated behind as much karma as many or most magickers, that really does only leave very limited options for people who don't want to play a desert elf. And... if anyone remembers Tuluk closing, they ought to remember that you can't actually 'consolidate' players into playing anything they don't want to play, you can only 'consolidate' them into not logging in because they have no appealing options and it's a game. Which is why numbers went off like mad when the karma timers went away again. Because people weren't ever going to come play something they didn't want to play, they were just going to play what they want or not play.

[BadSkeelz]

Got at least one staffer working on it. Who knows how many other resources being devoted to this whim.

To me it's indicative of a Staff approach that I've been pretty skeptical of for awhile, of just throwing all sorts of shit at the walls and seeing what sticks. It's made the game world feel a little frantic and forced.

I'd be curious to hear something you actually do like?  I haven't read every post you make, but my impression is that you generally don't like much and typically complain.  I don't mean to knock that, I truly believe every community needs its consistent complainers, because it helps point out bad ideas.  But as someone who tends to take the negative approach, I'd be genuinely interested in something you do like.

Hard question to answer. I don't play Armageddon for the high fantasy plots that most seem to. And only so much that can be said publicly.

I'd like to see the clans already in game continue to get support they do and sometimes need more of. I'd like characters to be less of a fucking chore to get "functional". I'd like there to a better distribution of power among roles so one try hard can't dominate a city or region. I'd like the cities to be less top heavy in terms of roles, but the only way to do that without attracting more players is to close clans (some of which should never have been opened in the first place). I'd like certain areas to be slightly less lethal so PCs have a chance to survive and get their feet under there. I'd like some roles to be played better.

I think there needs to be more code transparency on how this game actually works to put players on a fairer playing field. I do like most of the recent code changes, and the upcoming ones look interesting.

But on this topic, the topic of human tribals? I'd like it to be easier for indies to get some private spaces of their own. Getting a wagon, getting a space in the towns and wilds, getting somewhere or something that players can call their own I think would address a lot of concerns. Tents, warehouses, wilderness hideyholes. Living spaces (apartments that shouldn't look like apartments) in Luir's, in Cenyr, maybe even in Morin's. The ability to set up a small camp. Somewhere to feel a little safe and let tribals be tribals.  Something to let people make their own tribals and their own tribal spaces quickly, that will fade away just as quickly.

Most people just want a place to put their mark in the game world, for however long their character lasts. The easier it is to make those marks with less bureaucratic action, and less resultant clutter in the world itself, the better. Make your mark, die, have it fade. Repeat.

[Tuannon]

Got at least one staffer working on it. Who knows how many other resources being devoted to this whim.

To me it's indicative of a Staff approach that I've been pretty skeptical of for awhile, of just throwing all sorts of shit at the walls and seeing what sticks. It's made the game world feel a little frantic and forced.

I'd be curious to hear something you actually do like?  I haven't read every post you make, but my impression is that you generally don't like much and typically complain.  I don't mean to knock that, I truly believe every community needs its consistent complainers, because it helps point out bad ideas.  But as someone who tends to take the negative approach, I'd be genuinely interested in something you do like.

Hard question to answer. I don't play Armageddon for the high fantasy plots that most seem to. And only so much that can be said publicly.

I tend to try not to make the game about me, I play minions and mooks almost exclusively or service orientated indies (wandering medic, whatever). I do like to put things into the game, but I don't care if people don't know who pushed it into the game.

Where I'm rambling is, the idea that people are in it for the drama or the clout is very real, Halaster. I think the game environment is best served by a balance between people like Skeelz and the 'drama llamas'.

To the point I think a new tribe is fine so long as it just brings more options for people to play while not isolating players from each other through permanent geopolitics or ethical conflicts. The twin tribes are great, but they are literally oil and water on paper and kind of leave a lot of space for other ideas that need to be filled up.

[Inks]

I am a huge fan of the current staff support of various player stuff. The game world is vibrant, fluid and interesting and affectable by PCs. Stuff is amazing right now. And an extra tribe doesn't hurt. Kudos to staff.

[Windstorm]

Just want to say, I love and agree with everything BadSkeelz said there and I love that Halaster was comfortable and eloquent enough in stating his request of just that. All of it was very well put.

That said, I also disagree with the sentiment that an option for humans having a real, not-virtual tribe rooted in the world and its lore could in any way be bad. I think humans sorely need these options instead of feeling that their only choice otherwise is the Twin Tribes or independent-small-VNPCs.

I think the general decentralization of playerbases from the cities is a wider problem and that doesn't contribute to it, but that probably deserves its own thread and discussion. I do feel a general sense that BadSkeelz is maybe alluding to that there is a lot of scattering of the playerbase right now.

[Kaathe]

Human tribal story teller checking in:

Only one human tribe, the araseik, has been officially open for years and it hasn't consolidated all human tribals into it. So this is exactly the time to throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.

[Kankfly]

Human tribal story teller checking in:

Only one human tribe, the araseik, has been officially open for years and it hasn't consolidated all human tribals into it. So this is exactly the time to throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.

Are the Tan Muarks closed again?

Personally, I would like to see more work done for closed current tribes rather than having a brand-new tribe open up.

[Filthy_Grey_Rat]

I appreciate that this is happening, and it has peaked my interest in playing a tribal soon. I would also like to chime in that if you can find a way to make it so tents can be placed in the outer walls of Luir's, or one some streets/rooftops of cities, you'd see more tribals from virtual and non-virtual backgrounds, I feel.

Loving the work being done, including the way we treat each other on the GDB.

[Wday]

I read a lot of there is already X number of tribes and even human tribes.  But I never really see anyone pushing and playing them other then Delves. I do play a lot of tribal type so can safely say a new option is a great idea!  if the new clan opens and causes Cities to thin out so be it!  Game cycles a lot so new places to land with new Docs to make a world view is perfect for Arma.

[Nao]

I'm not interested in the current tribes because they look very, very boring, especially compared to elves. If this new tribe is another tribe that trades with not much else to do? Okay, but I probably won't play them. I'd like to see a tribe that has more potential for conflict, whether it's raiding or something else.

[Shabago]

I didn't, don't and likely never will agree on less is more for the game, due to our history. Player count and play style.

The point of player consolidation was what brought about Tuluk's closure. It sounded good on paper. It still sounds nice in theory (since people still talk about player spread, even in this very thread) but it was, sad to say, a disaster in practice. When Tuluk closed, we did see a spike in Allanak, sure. For one PC generation. That was it. Then, as this game is about telling stories, people didn't want to read the exact same book again. They already knew the PCs in 'Nak, they knew their backgrounds, quirks, secrets and so on. So, those players spread out all over the map after that generation of PC died. We saw spikes in RSV, we had a huge spike in Morins for those STILL wanting to player Tuluk-based concepts (Looking at you, Maw) and, we had a group of people leave. Straight up leave, and not return. Not only did we not see a sustained consolidation in Allanak, we saw a decline in potential interaction as a whole, by stealing away concepts and tools to tell said stories.

Thus, instead of having your 'Nakki who could have run across a foe from Tuluk, you had nothing. You didn't get a buddy in your Nak clan, you ended up with a net loss of potential interaction as a whole.

Players will play where they want to play, not where you want them to play. If an option does not exist to suit the concept or story they wish to tell, it's a coin flip that they will attempt to make a concept work in what is available - or leave. This game promises a generous amount of flexibility within it's niche them, to avoid stagnation of expression. If we had left Tuluk closed, didn't open D-elf tribes, don't work on human tribes, that promise is broken. It's akin to visiting Ben and Jerry's for their flavor selection and being told they're all out, except vanilla.

Do you want vanilla or are you taking your cash to the next ice cream parlor to get the flavor you wanted?

All the above aside, I do also agree that existing clans and areas need continued support and love, to likewise keep those who DO want vanilla.  If the case is presented that existing areas are suffering or at risk of costing us players, and it comes down to a choice of staff resource being spent on something new, versus updating/helping with the existing, then we would obviously re-evaluate where that time is being spent.

[racurtne]

Sometimes you have to shake things up a bit and do new things. I think overall direction here is good. Collaboration on fixing problems (even perceived) gets us closer to making things better for everyone. Inter-clan interaction is great. Sometimes spreading people out brings people together.

I look forward to seeing this in game.

[Malken]

I look forward to it, human tribals are my favorite to play.

[WarriorPoet]

More tribals is more fun. Hurrah.

But I seriously don't know why you would play anything except Tan Muark.

[Pariah]

I'm all for more shit to play, though I do worry about the "dilution" effect that others do, I get that people are gonna do what they wanna do.

The only reason I've never played tribals too hardcore is that there is really no reason to do it.

They never have had enough infrastructure in place to make it worth the downsides of it.  Plus I always ended up in Allanak or Tuluk anyways which put me firmly under the thumb of the established authority there, soldiers/templars.  So all being a human tribal ever really did was just make me a human with shittier social status.

To play a D-elf you get the benefit of desert running, which is huge and I totally get an OOC benefit really.

Maybe if the Human Tribals provided some benefit, but I don't really see it.

However, I don't wanna shit on this, so I'm happy some new tribe is out there now!

[Malken]

Anyway,

Any ETA on this new tribe? I was going to create a new character but migh wait for this instead

[Barsook]

Human tribal story teller checking in:

Only one human tribe, the araseik, has been officially open for years and it hasn't consolidated all human tribals into it. So this is exactly the time to throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.

Are the Tan Muarks closed again?

They are.

[Lotion]

please let me design their language

[Halaster]

please let me design their language

Sha'Lotion

[Kaathe]

    Tan Muark has shown closed on the website for years.  3 years ago a gdb announcement was made as a soft open. It didn't get much traction and recently I denied one player who wanted to app a muark for a few reasons but mainly I wasn't ready to handle a second clan.

   

I would like to see more work done for closed current tribes rather than having a brand-new tribe open up.

This is understandable, but that'd be on me and this new tribe work is mostly Shabago. So it's not mutually exclusive and nobody is gonna tell a staff member to stop creating good new content that excites them. I've just picked up a second active clan so that's priority over me reopening old tribes. I also play a lot.  So hype this new clan now, and long term expect additional re-openings.  This approach worked well for delf clans.  Their interactions now are more interesting than having one or two massive delf clans.  There's more opportunities for MCB but also cooperation.  I hope we'll see the same with human tribes long term and I'll be interested in seeing how they interact with each other and other non human tribes.

[Kankfly]

That's fair. I'm not entirely convinced myself but that's just me.

There's another thing I'd love to see on the subject of human tribal. What would be really awesome if the pclan process can be applied to indie tribals too. Some of the PCs I've met churned out some really cool docs (or what I've seen from the surface anyway), and if the pclan process can be tweaked for tribals, I think we could see more interesting dynamic on tribes.

[Agent_137]

There's another thing I'd love to see on the subject of human tribal. What would be really awesome if the pclan process can be applied to indie tribals too. Some of the PCs I've met churned out some really cool docs (or what I've seen from the surface anyway), and if the pclan process can be tweaked for tribals, I think we could see more interesting dynamic on tribes.

This would be more complex than just adding a new tribe, but I agree it is interesting. The complexity is because a player clan ICly is literally just be those players and eventually an NPC or two. There's no virtual members. But a player tribe would be mostly virtual to start. A player clan can rent a warehouse in a real life month or two. A player tribe would need at least a 2 room camp with a NPC guard to stop being virtual which is a big jump. And how would you measure progress toward it and maintenance of it? Amount of hides and waterskins junked? A player clan can hire other players ICly. A player tribe would have to recruit OOCly with staff reviewing the apps.

If you actually have answers for this stuff, it's probably better to put on a new thread as it goes well beyond human tribals.