More kidnap/interrogation options instead of insta-kill

[Iiyola]

I'd love to see options where, instead of either killing a target instantly, or clubbing them over the head until unconscious (and walking the risk of dying), the attacker could, somehow, trip/tie/catch their target with a net, for either kidnap purposes, or in example, dragging them into an alleyway for interrogation or muggery.

More often than not, be it raiders or thieves, resolve with insta-kill.

If there was a syntax that would provide kidnap/catching options, that would make things sooo much more interesting.

Grapple won't cut it, btw.

[Halaster]

What would be the difference in your idea(s) than what subdue does?

[dumbstruck]

Would this be a hogtie type thing where you could pack someone to a mount who was tied up to get them to a second location? Like bonds where you could pick them up and drop them to rest if you yourself were toting them and there was no mount involved? This seems interesting, especially if it was usable on npcs and like it could be used to add to arena stuff or weird noble estate ambience with nonaggro npcs that might be drug back to just... kind of wander the area but feasibly be too small or not the right type of beast to be able to be tamed. Which is to say, I could see a lot of uses for that other than just kidnapping if it worked that way, which could be really neat.

[Dan]

Currently we have subdue, threaten, sap, spells and poisons that could help incapacitate someone. We are lacking a bind ability to a certain extent but that is effectively covered by some of the above.

[dumbstruck]

Bind might be a neat skill, especially if it checked say, sleight of hand rather than flee, to allow you to escape it.

[Iiyola]

Would this be a hogtie type thing where you could pack someone to a mount who was tied up to get them to a second location? Like bonds where you could pick them up and drop them to rest if you yourself were toting them and there was no mount involved?

In example, yeah!

Bind might be a neat skill, especially if it checked say, sleight of hand rather than flee, to allow you to escape it.

Sounds like a great alternative to:

subdue, threaten, sap, spells and poisons

Subdue is easily to be escaped from, threaten/sap/poison usually have physical/temporary effect and are limited and could potentially kill someone. I can't see how this could support kidnapping/interrogation purposes. Spells are of course only limited to magickers.

Point of this idea is to negate immediate death and to provoke more roleplay/storylines. Killing someone is always a final option thereafter.

[MeTekillot]

What would be the difference in your idea(s) than what subdue does?

We can already totally incapacitate someone with stun/HP damage. Why not let us use an additional command off subdue for mv damage a temporary block on mv recovery?

[Master Color]

I guarantee that players would still just opt to kill regardless if there were options.

[mansa]

I guarantee that players would still just opt to kill regardless if there were options.

I will not opt to immediately kill, if I had the chance to incapacitate someone and prevent them from fleeing, yet still be awake and able to interact with me - I love the idea of being able to monologue against my victim.

[Iiyola]

I guarantee that players would still just opt to kill regardless if there were options.

There will always be such players, but I'm sure there's loads who'd love to have an incapacitate option and make use of it.

Another thing I was thinking... when someone's down to... I don't know... +2HP, they are basically still able to run and do anything, while their body is likely shredded to pieces. It would be great if below x HP, the target could only crawl. Kind of like Fortnite. Its another way for a raider/thief/etc to catch up with their target, threaten them, etc, and perhaps have a dialogue with them.
It could potentially also maybe affect psionics? Lower focus etc.

[najdorf]

A tie skill with 10ish second delay sounds good.
Only subdued, or knocked-off targets can be tied. (not normally sleeping)
Failure to tie will result in initiation of combat, so it is like a double subdue check.
Target cannot rest / regain mv when tied.
Flee can attempt to break it.
Tiers skill matters when trying to break it.
3rd persons can break another's tie much easily.
Failed flee causes 20/30 mv and a good delay
Tools can be employed for additional bonus.

[Armaddict]

I guarantee that players would still just opt to kill regardless if there were options.

Even if the end goal is still to kill, making mediums exist so that there can be 'security' in making the scene better has a great place.

The reason most PvP scenarios are not drawn out is because there is a very real combat system where delay results in a completely-gone byebye victim; you have to be efficient or fail at your task.

More things of this nature allow for not just 'let you live' scenarios, but increasing scenarios for 'you're going to die but let's make this good' scenarios, where the attackers don't have to place utter trust in the victim not jumping up and bolting to run straight to all-protective guards regardless of scenario while you're still suffering the opening delay.

[dumbstruck]

A tie skill with 10ish second delay sounds good.
Only subdued, or knocked-off targets can be tied. (not normally sleeping)
Failure to tie will result in initiation of combat, so it is like a double subdue check.
Target cannot rest / regain mv when tied.
Flee can attempt to break it.
Tiers skill matters when trying to break it.
3rd persons can break another's tie much easily.
Failed flee causes 20/30 mv and a good delay
Tools can be employed for additional bonus.

I like all of this but still thing like sleight of hand or something other than flee should be used to check against it. You are firmly tied, you obviously can't just flee it, but if you have good enough manual dexterity and slippery fingers, you might be able to pick the knots.

[Iiyola]

A tie skill with 10ish second delay sounds good.
Only subdued, or knocked-off targets can be tied. (not normally sleeping)
Failure to tie will result in initiation of combat, so it is like a double subdue check.
Target cannot rest / regain mv when tied.
Flee can attempt to break it.
Tiers skill matters when trying to break it.
3rd persons can break another's tie much easily.
Failed flee causes 20/30 mv and a good delay
Tools can be employed for additional bonus.

And also "nosave bind" for masochists like me.

[Iiyola]

Pretty please make this a thing, @staff?

[Wday]

This would be so cool!  As for subdue vs trap, have it so you trap someone and can hitch them!  This way you could defend off beast if one should aggro and not be in subdue holding while travel

[whengravityfails]

I absolutely love this idea. Whether people use it for more options than PK or just villainous monologuing before murder, it's still more RP.

[Dracul]

• I like the tie idea, and/or some adaptation of it, with tweaking later.
• I'd love if citysoldier npcs were armed with clubs and mercy on (excluding gate guards)
• If there was a 'mostly dead' hp range that was more accessible in pk situations, so you can shoot first and at least emote at them afterwards.
  -I know I've been at negative hp before...and uh, even survived...survival is not the point here though, but also I've had that blink/beep moment too.

[Dar]

I once KOd a person ane dragged them to a hidden area in the sewers. I kept needing to reKO the person every 15 min and apologise profusely ooc for 70 min of very boring travel.

[Riev]

In general (and things have been changing):

Knocking someone out was a more efficient way of killing. Attacking someone's stun points (mid Way session, Sapping, etc) would KO the person and make them fully available to kill with impunity because they couldn't flee or fight back.

Currently, you can Subdue someone and they can try to escape. Having the flee skill makes this even easier, and size/strength PROBABLY play a lot into it. While subdued, not only are you at a SEVERE defensive disadvantage, but the person subduing can't do most actions without letting you go.

Binding would be an interesting way to "disable and not kill" a person. Sure, it could be taken advantage of, but thats the point. Apprehending but not killing takes more skill/restraint than just outright killing someone. Unfortunately, the code also kind of makes it 'easier' to knock someone out (or used to, before Focus)

[kahuna]

It's not like this hasn't come up in Arms 30 years history here and there. Tying people up with ropes, etc. I think ultimately the staff can spend their time working on better projects especially with regards to the code. I just don't see this being utilized that much and as others have mentioned nobody wants their PCs to be bound, gagged, etc. It's just a slippery slope to approach.

[Lotion]

I once KOd a person ane dragged them to a hidden area in the sewers. I kept needing to reKO the person every 15 min and apologise profusely ooc for 70 min of very boring travel.

ooc I'm going to keep knocking you out every time you wake up for the hour it takes for us to get where I'm taking you, feel free to get a drink, make a sandwich, take a shower, etc
sewer moment for real