A guide to better enjoying Armageddon

[stoicreader]

Hello community, I need your help about a vulnerable topic and I'd really like grace and kindness in the spirit of helping. Not MCB against me as a player.

I love armageedon. And I also have one foot out the door constantly. I've quit several times. And I'm not the only one, I see others quit for similar reasons. And perhaps we can learn from these experiences and one of you can write a guide on how to enjoy Armageddon.

There is a method to consuming Armageddon like there is a method to consuming anything. If you drink a Slushy too fast, you get a brain freeze. Too slow and it melts. Olives have a pit. Roses have thorns. And there is a way to enjoy Armageddon  without constantly feeling like you want to quit.

And in this effort I want your help.

*    I have trouble holding boundaries with the game during intense RP, and going to bed ontime. Im tired the next day.
*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.
*     I have trouble when plots I create for my play are rejected or obstructed. The standards that make this game great  are high, and it's hard to begin a subplot that is obstructed by staff later on. They have a responsibility  to protect the theme of the game and how do I avoid these painful setbacks?
*      Some players, not all, are exceedingly toxic. How can the new player avoid conflict with these people.


When I'm grumpy and tired IRL over a game which is supposed to bring me joy, I should quit. Or I should learn how to consume it differently. Maybe in the effort of learning how to consume Armageddon we can help other players.

So, how do you eat the Armageddon Elephant?

[RheaGhe]

Hello community, I need your help about a vulnerable topic and I'd really like grace and kindness in the spirit of helping. Not MCB against me as a player.

I love armageedon. And I also have one foot out the door constantly. I've quit several times. And I'm not the only one, I see others quit for similar reasons. And perhaps we can learn from these experiences and one of you can write a guide on how to enjoy Armageddon.

There is a method to consuming Armageddon like there is a method to consuming anything. If you drink a Slushy too fast, you get a brain freeze. Too slow and it melts. Olives have a pit. Roses have thorns. And there is a way to enjoy Armageddon  without constantly feeling like you want to quit.

And in this effort I want your help.

*    I have trouble holding boundaries with the game during intense RP, and going to bed ontime. Im tired the next day.

Learn to set boundaries, and if you can't. An hour before your bed time, literally shut it off.

Don't let yourself be tired it's just a game.

*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.

This is called bleed.
https://arc-adelaide.com.au/2017/03/10/10-steps-to-manage-your-own-bleed/

Read that, and put some of the steps in practice.

*     I have trouble when plots I create for my play are rejected or obstructed. The standards that make this game great  are high, and it's hard to begin a subplot that is obstructed by staff later on. They have a responsibility  to protect the theme of the game and how do I avoid these painful setbacks?

Communication is key.

Before beginning any plot, unless it's tiny, run it by a GM. They will approve or disapprove it. Put out initial feelers.

*      Some players, not all, are exceedingly toxic. How can the new player avoid conflict with these people.

Avoid other players OOC who don't fit your definitions of non-toxic. Other than that, you can't really, you just learn who is toxic to your definition and who isn't.

When I'm grumpy and tired IRL over a game which is supposed to bring me joy, I should quit. Or I should learn how to consume it differently.

You should do what feels best to you... If you are tired, take a break, there's absolutely nothing keeping you here definitively. And if you come back, try to vary your habits. Change things up, seek new connections.

Maybe in the effort of learning how to consume Armageddon we can help other players.

I always try to educate. Share a viewpoint that aids positively.

So, how do you eat the Armageddon Elephant?

As a game. One that can be left at a moments notice. Keep it at a distance, share yourself but don't become the extreme. Connection is good. But don't be fucked up about it. Don't prioritize the game over Real Life.

[Riev]

The more time you spend on Armageddon, the more the ratio feels like "99% of my time is waiting for the 1% that gets denied".

When you're ready to play, make it a thing. This is my two hours tonight to play Arm. That is it.
Just like watching TV, and "I can only watch two episodes before bed".

When your time on Arm is spent on quality engagement, then you can move on to "how do I create plots other people like". Because honestly? Some people will hook on to anything, but sometimes you just can't get a plot off the ground. The time it takes to coordinate with staff, other players, acquire resources... it can take a RL month to 'prepare' for a night of cards.

Let it take that month. Just don't play for 29 days and then expect the 30th to make up for it.

[Halcyon]

 I have the same problems with reading really good books, or getting overinvolved bingeing on creative projects.  I tend to limit my playtimes to something reasonable before I start. One occasional long play session overindulgence might be okay, but they always risk disappointment, burnout, and/or feeling like I've over invested for the return.

I always try to make myself wait at least a week after the death of a character to start a new one.   Rapid rerolls almost never are any good for me, in terms of enjoyment.   They dont have the same allies, or stat rolls, or they get unlucky in chance monster encounters the previous ones skated through.   Sometimes this means I take almost three months off Arm between PCs, waiting for a karma option that has captured my fancy.  Its always better for me to wait for something I really want than settle, which also means I have almost no interest in zero karma pcs anymore.

I really do better when Arm isnt my only game.  Its too slow at times.   Some 'achievements' in game (my own mental prison construct, to be fair), are measured in hundreds of actions or months of playtime.  Even a hack in slash game, idle game or mobile game goes a long way in me enjoying Arm.

I struggle with my observable statistics in looking at 220 or so characters.    Around one in ten are winners with considerable (for me) playtime.   I've had two pcs, total, who I played their entire stories out.  Thats it.

Unfortunately, this means I probably shouldnt be very emotionally invested in my pcs until they get to five days played.  If they get to five, they almost always make it to twenty.   I also have a decisionmaking disorder around twenty days around accepting risk for the first time.   I've lost more than two dozen pcs been fifteen and twenty two days of play when they put their toe into the larger world.    The so called glass ceiling has teeth and orbital lasers.

I have some other, lesser rules for my gameplay that I am loathe to go into here.   They relate to my preferred styles of play.  One I will mention is that for me, exploration kills pcs.   I love mapping, but mapping the Grey Forest and everything in it isnt the work of one pc.  It is a topic I have to keep in mind over a dozen non-consecutive characters.   Same with several of the mechanical systems.   Some players have had success opening MMH groups, but for me, that would be such a topic.   I would require several pcs to map the area, learn the dangers of the usual politics, how protection money and bribes usually work out, how to organize a group of pcs in that area for the long term, etc.

Good luck!

[Orlau]

*    I have trouble holding boundaries with the game during intense RP, and going to bed ontime. Im tired the next day.
*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.
*     I have trouble when plots I create for my play are rejected or obstructed. The standards that make this game great  are high, and it's hard to begin a subplot that is obstructed by staff later on. They have a responsibility  to protect the theme of the game and how do I avoid these painful setbacks?

My personal biggest tip towards handling bad things happening to my character affecting me IRL, is to simply acknowledge that it's the character that's having a bad time. That separation is key, and whilst it can be hard for some as I think everyone puts a tiny bit of themselves into the characters they play, it is truly essential to not feeling constantly beat up by IC events. ArmageddonMUD is a game that has you get beat up, quite alot, IC. Even in the highest echelons of PC roles.

As for plots not getting off the ground, and things getting rejected/turned-over by staff.. Look at important people IRL. Look at their histories, and look at all the things they tried doing, but ultimately failed. Whether it is due to inability, due to others around them pushing it down, or it being simply, a bad idea. The actions they succeeded with, overshadowed their failures. Which they would never know, if they simply gave up at the first 'no'.

Whilst the game isn't real life, that applies to our characters too. I've had amazing characters that have had lots of fun plots started and finished, just as much as they had fun (in my head) plot ideas turned down or ultimately turned to nothing due to staff or players.

No definitive answers or solutions to your problems, of course, this is just advice. It's impossible to have a definitive answer for these things.

[CalmThyPalm]

The actions they succeeded in overshadowed their failures, which they would never have known if they simply gave up at the first 'no'.

And YOINK! A line for the quote book, that one, pff.

But yeah, just to reiterate what all o' these lovely folks have already said: separation is one of the biggest things here. You are not your character, and your character is not you. If they have a bad time IC, that should never mean you have to too IRL. At the end of the day, much as it's a great one that I'm also very much attached to, Armageddon is STILL JUST a game.

[Halcyon]

As for plots not getting off the ground, and things getting rejected/turned-over by staff.. Look at important people IRL. Look at their histories, and look at all the things they tried doing, but ultimately failed. Whether it is due to inability, due to others around them pushing it down, or it being simply, a bad idea. The actions they succeeded with, overshadowed their failures. Which they would never know, if they simply gave up at the first 'no'.

This is where I think "game as immersive simulation" gets taken too far.   I dont think that many people have relaxing catharsis or fantasies about failure.  Sometimes, just sometimes, its nice to win.

[stoicreader]

As for plots not getting off the ground, and things getting rejected/turned-over by staff.. Look at important people IRL. Look at their histories, and look at all the things they tried doing, but ultimately failed. Whether it is due to inability, due to others around them pushing it down, or it being simply, a bad idea. The actions they succeeded with, overshadowed their failures. Which they would never know, if they simply gave up at the first 'no'.

This is where I think "game as immersive simulation" gets taken too far.   I dont think that many people have relaxing catharsis or fantasies about failure.  Sometimes, just sometimes, its nice to win.

I don't read fiction where the characters have an unhappy ending.  Like, it's why I don't like the horror genre, is it possible Armageddon is just not the Genre for me?

[Barsook]

That could be it. You like to win not to lose.

[Hathors Hitman]

Stoa this is singing to me right this moment, I'm at the point where I feel like the entire game is griefing and not trying to make meaningful plots I've been looking at the door but did not step out yet.

[Tailong]

I have been roleplaying for many eons it seeems at this point, from D&D to modern graphical games.
If you cannot separate IC from OOC, or vice versa, you need to step away.  At the end of the day, win or lose, it's still just game and should not be affecting you. I recently lost a character I invested a shit ton of time on, lived his roleplay and story and boom, taken in an instant. Sure was defeated, and sad and a whole lot of other emotions, but I took a day, made a new character and now have a solid character again. Shit happens, you just have to remember it's a game, and no one else cares like you care about your time and effort. The game is what you make it, or let it become.

[creeper386]

*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.

This is the biggest one that I've dealt with, and my biggest suggestion is to limit the energy you put into a character at the start in particular. Although I probably should put more effort into character descriptions, I put very little effort into background. I usually start with a general gist of who the PC is, and let things develop as they happen.

Putting a ton of work into a character, who they are, what their history is, who their family and friends are, their previous work, their likes, dislikes ... their favorite pastry ... whatever all puts too much front loaded work when unfortunately if things go sideways your dead three days in.

It also has the side benefit of I feel developing more organic characters for me. Just developing things on the fly. How my character is going to hate/despise/fear magickers isn't decided until I run into the first one, maybe not even fully cemented until a few encounters in.

To second/third/fourth whatever it is, separation is key to this sort of game. For me, that often is limited investment like above. Low expectations. I don't have any grand plans for any PCs. My main goal is to have fun scenes that hopefully others enjoy.

[stoicreader]

*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.

This is the biggest one that I've dealt with, and my biggest suggestion is to limit the energy you put into a character at the start in particular. Although I probably should put more effort into character descriptions, I put very little effort into background. I usually start with a general gist of who the PC is, and let things develop as they happen.

Putting a ton of work into a character, who they are, what their history is, who their family and friends are, their previous work, their likes, dislikes ... their favorite pastry ... whatever all puts too much front loaded work when unfortunately if things go sideways your dead three days in.

It also has the side benefit of I feel developing more organic characters for me. Just developing things on the fly. How my character is going to hate/despise/fear magickers isn't decided until I run into the first one, maybe not even fully cemented until a few encounters in.

To second/third/fourth whatever it is, separation is key to this sort of game. For me, that often is limited investment like above. Low expectations. I don't have any grand plans for any PCs. My main goal is to have fun scenes that hopefully others enjoy.

This is great advice.

What about special requests and karma? These are upfront investments.

[creeper386]

I haven't actually done them.

But in many ways I'm not sure I'd do them too much differently. Obviously a sponsored role might have a little more goals built in from the start. Just due to application.

Inherently it well be more investment. But I sometimes feel like I've seen or talked with people that spend days or weeks developing a character like they are the main character in a book.

Ooh that's some other advice ... Your character isn't a main character.

I do second the recommend after a rough character death, taking some sort of break. Let everything settle. Jumping into a character right away can help maintain those bad feelings.

And although it can backfire, sometimes having a character or two in a roster might be helpful to, so any investment put into might not be as fresh if you die right away. And knowing you have something else you are interested in, might lessen the blow. It can backfire though, in that down time during character play could have you wish you were playing the nice shiny character that you have planned.

[Halcyon]

What about special requests and karma? These are upfront investments.

Almost every character can prioritize the correct stat and age to end up with one high stat.  That said, there are any number of concepts you really would like 2, 3, or 4 high stats to play out some target roles.   I highly suggest you only play karma roles that "need" one high stat, and not three.    Sometimes you will get lucky, but I have had a friend who played Arm nine years hoping to play a mul.   When his first mul rolled 3 "average" stats and a below average, he quit Arm.  A mul who was an incompetent fighter didnt fit his fantasy.

I know some players will violently disagree with this last paragraph.  You arent going to convince me stats dont matter, and I am not going to convince you they do.

There are also some karma roles that will take more than one try to learn.   Learning new spells, crimcode and new pk realities can be just as lethal as map exploration.   I have to work hard to set expectations on new karma roles because of this.    An easy example of this is the incredibly constrained life of a mul warslave in the Byn.  You few who have played such a mul for any length of time have my respect.

I would also point out that there is comparatively large amounts of "story" or "plotline" support for non magickal, 0-1karma roles.   The higher you go up the karma chain, the more you must expect to be a self starter.   

[Hestia]

What about special requests and karma? These are upfront investments.

I personally don't consider them "investments" any more than I consider a well-thought-out background an "investment." You don't lose anything by using a karma point to play a short-lived karma-locked character. You just have to wait awhile before playing another karma-locked character. There are still plenty of other character options that don't require any karma at all.

[stoicreader]

What about special requests and karma? These are upfront investments.

I personally don't consider them "investments" any more than I consider a well-thought-out background an "investment." You don't lose anything by using a karma point to play a short-lived karma-locked character. You just have to wait awhile before playing another karma-locked character. There are still plenty of other character options that don't require any karma at all.

If I gotta wait until Christmas for a special request. Which dies by new years day, im feeling kinda sad. "Well... I guess I can try again in the summer."

[Lotion]

What about special requests and karma? These are upfront investments.

I personally don't consider them "investments" any more than I consider a well-thought-out background an "investment." You don't lose anything by using a karma point to play a short-lived karma-locked character. You just have to wait awhile before playing another karma-locked character. There are still plenty of other character options that don't require any karma at all.

Playing a specapp or character that costs CGP (chargen points) to create has an undeniable cost. A specapp costs a specapp slot of which each player regenerates two of per year. Spending CGP can potentially lock the player out of having immediate access to a good subguild if they splat their fresh toon within 30 days of approval. Because you are satisfied to ignore these costs does not mean all players are happy to do the same. Karma Jail is a real phenomenon which affects how players play the game due to how the penalty for dying can change over time when playing a CGP character. The existence of subguild none does somewhat alleviate this as players can create a character that will have a good subguild in up to 30 days, however that still sucks.

[stoicreader]

Special apps ALSO spend  CGP. If it's for a role outside of your karmic range.

[valeria]

I love armageedon. And I also have one foot out the door constantly. I've quit several times. And I'm not the only one, I see others quit for similar reasons. And perhaps we can learn from these experiences and one of you can write a guide on how to enjoy Armageddon.

I can't count the number of times I've 'quit' Armageddon, depending on how you define quit.  I'm in a state of quit right now in fact, though I occasionally look at the forums and sometimes nostalgate about how I could maybe make a character except I'm busy writing and dealing with deaths in the family.  For me, it's usually a long break after something in the game or IRL upsets me (looking at you Great Nonbinary Debate and also you Death of Grandmother).  This is sometimes just frustration with staff, getting too many feels in a character, but is just as often that RL gets me down because someone I know has died, my time is tied up, or a disaster occurs that makes playing not enjoyable.  Some might call it quitting, I just call it taking a break, regardless of the reason.

Taking a break has such a different connotation and so much less finality, y'know?

And there is a way to enjoy Armageddon  without constantly feeling like you want to quit.

Idk buddy, when I don't feel like playing anymore, I just don't play.  The sooner into not wanting to play that I cut myself off, the shorter the period is before I can come back fresh later, most times.  I don't like riding that 'I want to quit' line.  If my recreation isn't enjoyable, it's on me to take control of that, and that often means just stepping away until the desire comes back.

Like with pie.  Just because I can eat an entire pie in one sitting if I want to doesn't make it a good idea, even if the pie is very delicious, but particularly not if the pie is mincemeat pie, like it should be good but somehow it's just... not, except for maybe the crust.  But it's still pie, right?

I've also stopped eating entire pies, this has probably been more healthsome for me.

*    I have trouble holding boundaries with the game during intense RP, and going to bed ontime. Im tired the next day.

I will set two alarms in my phone.  One is a 30 minute warning, that means wrap stuff up.  The next is a 'bed time now' alarm, which means I'm going to quit ooc if I have to.  Other than that it's a self-discipline issue.  It sucks to miss a scene, or for me more often RPTs, because I have an adult bedtime with adult responsibilities, but such is life.

*    I have trouble with setbacks and sudden deaths for my characters who I invest quite a bit of creative energy into. It feels like other people are destroying my hard work. I feel my mood IRL is affected by bad shit that happens to my characters.

This is an entire fucking mood.  When my mood IRL is affected by bad things happening to my characters, it's time to take a step back and work on things that lift my mood.  Take a walk, bake some bread, watch a new kzombie horror show on Netflix.  It's part of the game though for me.  My usual solution is breaks.

*     I have trouble when plots I create for my play are rejected or obstructed. The standards that make this game great  are high, and it's hard to begin a subplot that is obstructed by staff later on. They have a responsibility  to protect the theme of the game and how do I avoid these painful setbacks?

I never request staff involvement and I never assume that staff is obstructing me.  There are always other players out there.  I felt like such an ass when I got mad at staff about being unable to do something with an IG tavern because I thought I was getting 'no's from them, when it later turned out there was a noble fucking with my character's goals back in idk the Year of Our Lord 2010 or something.

I try not to invite staff involvement at all.  They are lovely and well-meaning people who almost always have their own lives going on, anything long-term gets passed from staffer to staffer, consistency is not something you can expect, and it's an entire headache.  If I can do something without staff involvement, I will.  If something is going to need staff involvement I take a long, hard look about whether I want to invite that headache.

If I decide I want the headache, I communicate in detail my intent in advance. And I never take 'no' as 'no,' because why not work on something my character would work on.  I also never take 'yes' as 'yes' because people are inconsistent af and I've found it foolhearty to count on a yes as a yes.  See, staff changes, etc.  If the process of working on the thing isn't enjoyable in and of itself, it won't be worth it to me, personally.

*      Some players, not all, are exceedingly toxic. How can the new player avoid conflict with these people.

I don't communicate OOC with just about the vast majority of people, and when I do, I tell them I don't want to talk about the game.  I'm rarely on the forums outside of clan forums and almost never on the Discord.  It's all about where I'd rather spend my time.  I can listen to someone bitch about their grievances about X or Y, or I can play my character.  It also helps that I don't really give a shit what other players think.

I know people out there do OOC communication and character coordination because they sometimes try to involve me in it.  I pretend it doesn't exist because it doesn't affect me.  Aha, part of me might say, but it affects my character and thus my enjoyment!  To which I respond, well, self, the only one with control over your enjoyment is you, so if you're not enjoying, take your time elsewhere.

Idk how much of a help that was.  Take care of your mental health first and good luck with all this, it took me more than a few years to figure out.

[najdorf]

Like most of you, there have been times I thought, "what am I doing, why am I wasting my years on a weird game where only a handful of other people does."
But then, who else isn't? What is quality time, if not the moment you do what you enjoy. My father keeps watching soccer all week for the past few centuries, all the way to 3rd league, then during the nights he goes through pundits commentating on a game drawn 0-0 for hours. My mom keeps spending hours every night on facebook on the most ridiculous things you cannot even imagine. Most of the people around me are enjoying their fake instagram lives. Even in the case of an elite / intellectual spending their hours enjoying wine, concerts and balls. You might be enjoying your life more than them before a screen RPing in arm.

There might be times where you feel bad, sad, down about the game, but what other option do you have? Although you can deceive yourself with a feeling that you can do different things and be happy, the brave thing is to do what you love. If you look at it from that perspective, all the issues you mention become trivial. Also, making a new character is a good refresher.

[Malken]

Like most of you, there have been times I thought, "what am I doing, why am I wasting my years on a weird game where only a handful of other people does."
But then, who else isn't? What is quality time, if not the moment you do what you enjoy. My father keeps watching soccer all week for the past few centuries, all the way to 3rd league, then during the nights he goes through pundits commentating on a game drawn 0-0 for hours. My mom keeps spending hours every night on facebook on the most ridiculous things you cannot even imagine. Most of the people around me are enjoying their fake instagram lives. Even in the case of an elite / intellectual spending their hours enjoying wine, concerts and balls. You might be enjoying your life more than them before a screen RPing in arm.

There might be times where you feel bad, sad, down about the game, but what other option do you have? Although you can deceive yourself with a feeling that you can do different things and be happy, the brave thing is to do what you love. If you look at it from that perspective, all the issues you mention become trivial. Also, making a new character is a good refresher.

That is such a weird post...

Like most of you, there have been times I thought, "what am I doing, why am I wasting my years on a weird game where only a handful of other people does."
But then, who else isn't?

Like 99.9% of the world population?

There might be times where you feel bad, sad, down about the game, but what other option do you have?

Huh... Play another game? Try another hobby? Re-evaluate your life?

My advice to stoicreader is to try a non-perma death RP mud or a MUSH where you often have to consent with other players on the direction of your actions.

[eska]

Whenever I feel down or stuck or confused, I start thinking about next char and concept even though I have a char that I enjoy playing the most. This allows me too submit an applicaiton as soon as that char dies. This has been my motivation lately. Yeah my last three chars survived a good deal of dangers and died when I was afk even for a few secs.

[Master Color]

My advice to stoicreader is to try a non-perma death RP mud or a MUSH where you often have to consent with other players on the direction of your actions.

More or less this. Playing with Armageddon players is basically like playing against a brick wall. More people are in it for the power fantasy than the roleplay and your character is more often than not fodder for that other person's power fantasy. Which to my reasoning is why almost everybody is more interested in solo grinding than interacting in taverns, etc.

Meanwhile I can pop into one of those silly Conan RP servers with an 80 player cap and bounce my 0 day nobody off the first person I find and make an enjoyable evening out of it. I don't need to worry about desert elves spam arrowing me to death or templars making up reasons to off me.

OR I can jump into a character a WITH history and roots in Arx's ongoing story. Intead of starting from 0 and begging for players to take me seriously and let me join their shred of world plot.

EDIT: While I am pointing out some of Arm's faults, my intent isn't too yuck the game. I'm just pointing out that the game has a lot of weaknesses that other games lack and that those games can be a breath of fresh air after playing Armageddon for a long time.

[stoicreader]

More or less this. Playing with Armageddon players is basically like playing against a brick wall. More people are in it for the power fantasy than the roleplay and your character is more often than not fodder for that other person's power fantasy. Which to my reasoning is why almost everybody is more interested in solo grinding than interacting in taverns, etc.

What is a power fantasy.