Lingo

[Booya]

I have to ask, what's a twink? And what's fading to black?

[creeper386]

A twink in my definition someone who uses OOC means to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

Fade to black is when you fade to black in a situation your don't want to RP out. Ussually graphic situations from sex to torture. If consent isn't given by all parties involved fade to black is mandatory.

Creeper

[Bestatte]

Wheee newbie questions! I mean that in all the nicest ways by the way, I'm not being facetious.

Twink is generally a term used to describe people who attempt to maximize their stats and/or skills without giving any consideration to roleplay. An example would be sparring for what the game world considers 3 RL days. Just because the code allows you to do this, doesn't mean it's appropriate. Another example would be to utilize the craft skill non-stop with no emoting whatsoever (or using the same tired macro/script over and over), for several real-life hours, just so you can add another item to your craft list.

Twink can also mean using information you learn from outside sources to augment your roleplay. Such as hearing from a friend in IM that the new basketweaving crafter in house Jimbbob is actually a secret defiler. And then logging into the game and accusing the new basketweaving crafter of being a defiler.

Fade to Black is what you do if your character gets into either a torture or rape situation that YOU as a player don't wanna deal with. It is an "assumed" roleplay. You and the other person agree that yes, this incident did happen. But the "fade to black" allows it to be assumed to have happened, without any emotes going back and forth. An example:

Joe Templar's guard subdues you and brings you to his cozy apartment in town. Joe Templar says, "Now that I have you, I'll have my way with you! Bwahahahahhaa!"

OOC: Joe Templar says,
(OOC) BTW we'll fade to black right?

You say, OOC: Yeah thanks.

JOe Templar says OOC:
Okay I rape your character for 3 minutes because I'm trigger-happy.

You say, OOC: Okay.

>After three minutes time, Joe Templar retreats to his wine rack, tucking himself back in, and pours himself a glass of Reynolte dry.

>You cry and crawl out of the apartment.


That would be a fade to black.

[Gar]

What's a booya?

[Carnage]

Just because the code allows you to do this, doesn't mean it's appropriate. Another example would be to utilize the craft skill non-stop with no emoting whatsoever (or using the same tired macro/script over and over), for several real-life hours, just so you can add another item to your craft list

I don't consider necessarily crafting without emoting to be twinkish. Doing it for IRL hours over and over again is, though. My reason on this is that, if you're by yourself, do you really want to emote the same tired thing about how you strand that basket dexterously? If you do it for IRL hours on end just to bring up your skill that's twinkish. If you need to meet an order of say five or so baskets and don't really want to emote that's all right in my opinion. I've honestly done it before simply because I don't like fully emoting out each and every basket and manuver. If I'm talking with someone I might do tell friend (While twisting and manipulating the materials) Blah blah blah. That's fine.

If someone tells you to go practice basketweaving and you do it for IRL hours on end, it's still twinkish. Keep game time in concept. An hour = one day. Not many people can do one thing for an entire day and not take a break.

[marko]

JOe Templar says OOC:
Okay I rape your character for 3 minutes because I'm trigger-happy.

You say, OOC: Okay.

I just want to say that I really dislike this example.  Rape, even done via "fade to black" really shouldn't happen ever.  Unless there is full agreement - not coerced agreement in this situation.  But it should be "Is it alright if there is an incident of rape at this time?" or something similar.  Forcing rape upon anyone either IC (which is absolutely disgusting to me) or OOC is something you need to be ultra careful with.

To make things simple - avoid it.  Even if it is IC for your char to do - don't do it, don't even suggest it.  Once again, if you absolutely must (I can see no reason why) only proceed if it is asked in a way that someone can refuse it completely.  

Other than that - yup, that's fade to black.  

Crafting without emoting IS twinkish.
The reasoning behind its twinkishness is its basically just putting yourself on auto-drive with no consideration for others that might be watching you, and taking no care for what your doing. Emoting while crafting not only helps you the player figure out what your doing, and if it would be hard/easy, time-consuming, hurtful (things that let you further figure out aspects of your character) it lets you inform people that may or may not be watching what your doing.

I find it very annoying when something like this might happen:

So and so gets a rock from his pack.
So and so begins crafting.
So and so shatters the stone in his clumsy attempt.
So and so grumbles.
So and so gets a rock from his pack.
so and so begins crafting.
So and so shatters the stone in his clumsy attempt.
So and so stands, brushing himself off.
So and so leaves north.

That leaves me in a situation where I have absolutely no idea what he was trying to do, or anything. I figure he was trying to craft something, but what... how... with what?

You never know if your alone.

The same methodogy is used in combat to. I believe someone... in a post somwhere showed an example of bad combat and that was:

kick
kick
kick
emote something.
kick
kick
kick

etc.

Basically the same as:
craft blank into blank
craft blank into blank
craft blank into blank
craft blank into blank

And the reasoning "I'm alone so I don't have to emote" is a great way to escape having to do stuff in front of people. Under that thinking someone (in the Byn maybe) would wait until everyone (he thinks) left so he can just spam craft swords or amor or whatever.

I use the word spam, because thats what it is when you use a command over and over again with nothing in between.

Anyways, yes its twinkish to not emote something your doing, in most if not all instances.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Carnage on this one.  Twinkish behaviour, as I've always understood it, is pretty much what Creeper said: abusing the code.  Not emoting when you craft is lame and boring, but it isn't abusive.  Non-stop carving of rings, while tempting when you are solo-RPing, for a day is a bit much and is ignoring the reality of how tired your hands would get.

Crafting without emoting makes you guilty of not adding to the gameworld, it doesn't make you guilty of abusing the code.  You could pump out 20 beautiful emotes per craft on the way to crafting 3 days worth of stuff up, and that would be twinkish.

But we are probably getting off into semantics here....

[Bestatte]

I agree with Creeper and Carnage. That's probably why I wrote:

to utilize the craft skill non-stop with no emoting whatsoever (or using the same tired macro/script over and over), for several real-life hours, just so you can add another item to your craft list.

and not

to utilize the craft skill without emoting.

It's a little irksome when people take things I write out of context and then criticize me for "meaning" something I didn't write.

[Sanvean]

I'd define a twink as someone who acts in a way her or his character would not, in order to acquire some gain for the character. Practicing skills incessantly would be a good example. So would using information gained outside the game or from a previous character, since this is information the character would not have.

Fade to black is a cinematic term. You may have seen movies where the screen slowly fades to black, and the next action takes place off camera. This is the origin of the expression.

If you would like information on what is and isn't appropriate in the game, the CONSENT helpfile has some information:

There are few restrictions on roleplay in Armageddon. If you choose to roleplay adult situations, that is fine. However, before instigating such an act with another player, please OOC to make sure that the role play is consented to. If someone is instigating roleplay that makes you uncomfortable, please OOC that they should stop. If they continue despite being told to stop, please wish up. This rule is not meant to be abused in order to allow characters to escape death/torture/etcetera. Perhaps a good analogy is the movie ratings system: some people may wish to see the details acted out in a way which would deserve an R rating while another, younger player might prefer that the details be communicated in an OOC fashion and left offstage.

Specifically in the case of roleplaying through a rape, the instigator takes on added responsibility. In this case, the instigator absolutely must OOC'ly ask for and must obtain explicit consent from the victim's player prior to involving their character in any emote specifically indicative of the act of rape, no matter how non-graphic you believe it to be.

If you act out a graphic sequence without first obtaining the other player's consent, and the player then complains within a reasonable amount of time (so that the runlogs can be checked and the complaint verified), you will be banned. In such cases, therefore, please use common sense and have respect for other people's sensibilities.

[Booya]

Thanks.

[spawnloser]

JOe Templar says OOC:
Okay I rape your character for 3 minutes because I'm trigger-happy.

You say, OOC: Okay.

I just want to say that I really dislike this example.  Rape, even done via "fade to black" really shouldn't happen ever.  Unless there is full agreement - not coerced agreement in this situation.  But it should be "Is it alright if there is an incident of rape at this time?" or something similar.  Forcing rape upon anyone either IC (which is absolutely disgusting to me) or OOC is something you need to be ultra careful with.

Personally, if it is IC for a character to rape someone and the other character has little say in the matter...it should happen.  Otherwise, I would think it bad roleplay.  Granted, people could all design their characters personalities to not have it be IC, but that kinda takes away from the harshness of the game...next someone will be saying, murder is bad and I really don't think we should have anyone doing that in game, no matter how IC it is for any characters.  If it is IC, I say do it...fade to black if noone wants to RP it out.

[Anonymous]

My point would be: Make a PC who wouldn't ICly rape someone.

That shit is sick, period.

[Anonymous]

True but so is murder.

[spawnloser]

My point would be: Make a PC who wouldn't ICly rape someone.

That shit is sick, period.

I understand...but as the Guest just pointed out, so is murder.  If we're going to say that one type of depravity is not allowed in such a harsh world, where will it stop?

[Bakha]

My point would be: Make a PC who wouldn't ICly rape someone.

That shit is sick, period.

I understand...but as the Guest just pointed out, so is murder.  If we're going to say that one type of depravity is not allowed in such a harsh world, where will it stop?

I've actually had this argument with a good friend from the game in the past. I would counsel you against pursuing this line of argument, Spawnloser. People get (justifiably so) bent out of shape over rape. I'll give you a simple difference between the two:

1) Murder is final. It is unlikely (impossible) that anyone playing the game has personally experienced murder, firsthand. Therefore, it has a hint of the unreal to it. Not to mention that the circumstances of a murder on the desert world of zalanthas are very unlikely to have any parallels in the real world. How many people do you know that have been cut down with a sword made of obsidian? So, it is not something that players of the game are capable of personally having experienced firsthand. Additionally, if they've experienced murder secondhand, it is unlikely that the events unfolding ingame are likely to hold enough similarity to the corresponding real life event to cause them undue duress. The same, however, cannot be said for rape.

2) Rape victims continue to live both in real life and ingame. They live, and they likely play among us, considering that like 1 in 4 women in the US have been the victim of some sort of sexual assault. Asking a victim of such a horrible crime to suffer the same thing ingame (even via a fade-to-black) and roleplay out the resulting effect upon their PC isn't right.

Just my two 'sid.

P.S. In the aforementioned argument, I was taking the same position that you hold spawnloser. I now see the difference.

[Anonymous]

My point would be: Make a PC who wouldn't ICly rape someone.

That shit is sick, period.

I understand...but as the Guest just pointed out, so is murder.  If we're going to say that one type of depravity is not allowed in such a harsh world, where will it stop?

The difference between rape and murder is that on Armageddon murder is often done out of a natural desire to survive.  Killing someone for their coins is no different than a large animal preying on another in our world or any imagined one.

Rape is a violation only expressable on human terms.

Lastly, and more importantly, the motives for acting out a rape in a game like this I'd wager are more often than not some sort of thrill from the act and not 'well, my PC would do this.'

It's more along the lines of 'hey let's do a scene where we buttfuck this chick while someone cuts her guts open.'

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

While I technically agree, in that actually acting out the rape would be really sickening on the part of the both the player and the victim if they were willing, the fact that your PC does it is not bad. As long as a fade to black is carried out, I see nothing wrong with it.

I say this because a PC is a PC, and if you cannot deal with the fact that there are likely rapists in the world of Zalanthas, then perhaps you are not well educated. Of course, the PC would still be viewed with disdain by the vast majority of the Known World.

[marko]

To those who are argueing in what more or less constitutes favor of roleplaying rape - let me further what else has been said.

I've have the experience of knowing women who were raped and who also played Armageddon.  There was one particular incident where it was "faded to black" and that person broke out in tears, was incredibly emotional, and ended up leaving Armageddon for good.  

You might say - well, it's their character but not the player and while it is - it is also something the player has to play out and, in part, experience.  

How is murder different?  Murder is easy.  In a game people are expected to die.  Death is basically the end of the game (or thread with our characters).  We all expect death to happen.  Death is implicit with the game, it is part of the game, we all experience it, and it is so "unreal" that it isn't traumatic.  I'm fairly certain that none of us have ever died IRL.

Back to rape - Once again, people have to play it out that their character was raped, this in turn can bring back memories of the emotional stress that is involved with it.  And frankly, it isn't worth while to do.

I don't care if your character _would_ rape just don't do it.  I really don't understand why you would want to.  If for whatever reason you feel your character simply must rape, once again, follow the consent guidelines and I would ask you go beyond them.  Do not force it upon someone even if it is 'faded' and give the other party the option to have it not even occur.  

There are real people behind the characters and some of them have experienced real things.  Even for those who haven't experienced it you are, more or less, forcing them to experience it.  It is my view that you are being incredibly rude, obnoxious, and downright offensive by making the player go through that experience.

[sacac]

I know.. rather.. knew, a woman who was raped.. And then we were walking through a grocery one day when two five year olds ran past yelling.. what was it? oh yeah.. "Rape!"
She burst into tears ran from the store.. borrowed my car and flew off into the great abyss.. never heard from her since.

So just don't do it..

[Impska]

First, if you'd like to play a character who rapes people, there is no reason in the world why you cannot do it with vnpcs or npcs. I don't see why that would be an unfair expectation.

First, there are some people playing this game who have experienced rape, as mentioned previously. And out of respect for those players, keeping from inflicting it upon their characters is really just the right thing to do.

Second, as a woman who has not experienced rape, it's not something that I particularly want to explore. I would immediately retire a character who was raped because a) it's a traumatic event that demands to be rp'd correctly if at all; and b) it's not somewhere that I would like to go emotionally.

While there are probably women out there who might want to explore the experience of rape, please assume that they are in the minority. Let them arrange it OOCly or in their backgrounds. I think that it's very safe to assume that it's off limits for much of the playerbase.

There is a huge difference between rape and murder. Huge. The emotional responses that the two illicit, for one, are quite different. Finally, it's particularly distressing to see this point argued because this sort of RP/violence is directed primarily toward women - and given the rampant degrading attitude toward f-me/attractive female pc's that is apparant OOCly, I really don't think making rape 'acceptable' rp is a good thing. And maybe that's overreacting, but I would rather overreact than have a character ruined by this sort of thing.

[SailorMars]

How we got here from "what is a twink" and "fade to black", I have no idea, but... with half-elves and muls (the birthing of which is most often fatal for the woman) running about it's pretty safe to assume that unwilling coupling is not exactly uncommon. Should PCs RP it out? No, unless both parties for some reason agreed OOC.

Similarly, I'm sure the vast majority of male players wouldn't want to limp from the Allanaki jails as the well-hung half-giant prisoner waved and said, "You were the best!"

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

First, if you'd like to play a character who rapes people, there is no reason in the world why you cannot do it with vnpcs or npcs. I don't see why that would be an unfair expectation.

That is a good point. What I was trying to say was that a character who rapes men or women is not beyond the realm of play simply because of other folks' uncomfortablity with it. I don't want to sound completely insensitive, and a character of mine will never (well, shouldn't ever, as far as I can see) rape a man or woman. But the possibility exists for the PC who wishs to...roleplay...this mess.

VNPCs are the perfect solution.

[spawnloser]

Okay...to make my stance clear, a very good friend of mine was raped.  I do understand the trauma that can inflict on a person...I'm not saying that anyone should do this in game flippantly.  I'm saying that it should NOT be disallowed.  Doing it to VNPC's is a great solution.  I wouldn't want to further traumatize someone that has been already traumatized by such a deplorable act.  I just don't think that because someone thinks it is wrong in RL that it should not be part of the game.  This is a fantasy world that we're playing in.  The consent help file actually mentions the fact that rape should be OOC'ly consented to.  If the staff, through that help file, is saying that rape is a part of this world...it is a part of the world.  OOC communication should be used, however, to make sure that everyone is comfortable with what is happening first.  I just don't want to see anything that is (and should be) part of such an environment as we are playing in deemed unacceptable because we as a society deem it wrong in RL.

[Morrolan]

My strongly held opinion:

Rape as an RP tool can exist on the MUD.  The players, however, must all give full consent.

And please, fade to black, for Krath's sake, because, well, ew.

M