What makes a pickpocket good for the game?

[Rogue Wiggler]

Looking for some guidance here. Have ya'll either played a pickpocket or encountered a pickpocket in a way that you felt added to the gaming experience of everyone involved? (Pickpocket meaning a character that lives off the steal command, not just the pre-revamp guild.)

Heh, if this is even possible, have you ever been stolen from and liked it? I have enjoyed being raided multiple times, but that's usually a more interactive experience.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing pickpockets, I'm trying to direct my pickpocket play in a way that doesn't feel super griefy.

[Riev]

No matter what you do, players will dislike an "inventory elementalist" far more than they will a REAL HONEST TO TEK Sorceror.

Its less about "feeling good" that someone stole, and more 'did they have a reason other than 'i could'"?

I once played a thief who would steal things only to flaunt them in front of their owners later. Or a Salarri contractor who would steal weapons after they were sold, sell them back to the Salarr PCs, so they could 're-sell' at a 'discount'.

Players hate feeling like something they put effort into is taken away. Stealing from them, via the steal command, takes away items or objects they 'earned'. So long as the theft has a reason, its not as bad. It hurts worse when you finally get that bejewelled bastard sword of +1 Rubies and its stolen from your inventory because its not 'heavy' enough.

[Narf]

Steal food.

It's cheap to replace, and makes a lot of sense for why a pickpocket would want it.

Stealing coins is also good. You can't get so many that it'll be crippling usually (unless you repeatedly steal from the same person)

Also, give people a break if you've stolen from them recently. In theory the entire city should be targets, not just the one PC you know you can get away with it with.

None of these are hard and fast rules, but I'd be hardpressed to get too irritated at someone that plays by them.

[Patuk]

Years ago, there was a gdb thread. It didn't have to do with the topic - not really. At some point, someone asked staff if they might drop interesting artifacts and the like into the world some more. That staffer in particular, I don't remember who, had a reason: 'I used to,' they said. 'but every single time I do, it ends up in a noble's drawer, and then it is subsequently forgotten about.'

You know when that doesn't happen? When someone steals something cool and has to do something with it. Every noble house has a storeroom of unused stuff; GMH leaders routinely junk some of theirs so there's soom for more. But people stealing stuff? Nah. Not those.

[Fredd]

Back in the last iteration of Tuluk my pickpocket worked for a noble house. He passed out food and gem stones to npcs and players as 'Alms for the poor' So riots wouldn't break out due to free food and money being handed out.

He also snuck into the other city and stole some clan specific weapons off the belts of those clans and brought them back, marking him as a master shadow artist.

I have used my pickpockets/thieves as Agents for a Noble or city, as thugs and pimps, as gentleman thieves that only rob the elite, and leaves calling cards (it's fun to steal from a merchant and leave a calling card in their pocket, like an izdari piece)

All this adds to the game in some way shape or form, IMHO. sure, that Merchant might be pissed everything in his cloak is gone, but they now have something to whine about to templars who might crack down on thieves, which essentially, is a plot since it's now involving a lot of people across a couple clans.

Thieving is more then just the stealing. You can use the skills in several ways. I knew a guy that did magic tricks, where he used slight of hand and steal to plant things on people that they find during the show. Get creative

[Fredd]

Years ago, there was a gdb thread. It didn't have to do with the topic - not really. At some point, someone asked staff if they might drop interesting artifacts and the like into the world some more. That staffer in particular, I don't remember who, had a reason: 'I used to,' they said. 'but every single time I do, it ends up in a noble's drawer, and then it is subsequently forgotten about.'

You know when that doesn't happen? When someone steals something cool and has to do something with it. Every noble house has a storeroom of unused stuff; GMH leaders routinely junk some of theirs so there's soom for more. But people stealing stuff? Nah. Not those.

Also THIS. This is really really fun to do. And nothing gets the heart beating likee sneaking around someplace where it's death to be caught.

[Jihelu]

The last time I played a thief I'd religiously steal from people.
AFK Aide in the tavern? Oops haha time to get shit popping.
Someone looking at something at the bar? I'm taking it and passing it off to a noble for the fun of it.
Friday adds you to the Atrium and then never logs on again? Time to rob the Atrium apartments.

Honestly though once you become a good thief you have no reasons to steal, you'll find other work. You either do it for the hell of it (Guilty) or when you want a specific item from someone (Semi-Guilty, I enjoy taking poisoned blades from people. I'm a good Samaritan keeping Allanak safe)

Akariel was the one talking about how items would end up in junk drawers I believe, using an example of his Templar having a bunch of fancy loot and then when Tuluk closed it all got lost to the closure (Stop hoarding your shit Akariel I can't break into the Templar apartments...not ever since the incident)

[Fredd]

The last time I played a thief I'd religiously steal from people.
AFK Aide in the tavern? Oops haha time to get shit popping.
Someone looking at something at the bar? I'm taking it and passing it off to a noble for the fun of it.
Friday adds you to the Atrium and then never logs on again? Time to rob the Atrium apartments.

Honestly though once you become a good thief you have no reasons to steal, you'll find other work. You either do it for the hell of it (Guilty) or when you want a specific item from someone (Semi-Guilty, I enjoy taking poisoned blades from people. I'm a good Samaritan keeping Allanak safe)

Akariel was the one talking about how items would end up in junk drawers I believe, using an example of his Templar having a bunch of fancy loot and then when Tuluk closed it all got lost to the closure (Stop hoarding your shit Akariel I can't break into the Templar apartments...not ever since the incident)

Yeah, sometimes you steal cause you need the coin. Honestly, how full these apartments get when people aren't stealing?

It's a service to the server, honestly.

edit: You shouldn't clean out apartments though. unless you are doing so for ic reasons. but not just cause you feel like "going shopping" as I call it. That being said, I have done full apartment clean outs during smaller rpt's like arena scenes. Knowing the whole city will be watching the fight, i clean out a rivals apartment.

[armandhammer]

Theft is good for the game because it's a tool used for storytelling. That's what we're doing: cooperatively storytelling. If you want more people to feel good about pickpocketing, include more people on the feel-good end of the exchange: teach someone to pickpocket IC, distract your mark while your friend goes in for the lift, create a 'fence' PC that makes stolen goods disappear, etc.

If you get pickpocketed and don't like it OOC, remember someone is having the time of their life on the other end and they're co-creating this experience so you can have your 'hell yeah!' moment sometimes, too.

[Troicha]

Theft is good for the game because it's a tool used for storytelling. That's what we're doing: cooperatively storytelling. If you want more people to feel good about pickpocketing, include more people on the feel-good end of the exchange: teach someone to pickpocket IC, distract your mark while your friend goes in for the lift, create a 'fence' PC that makes stolen goods disappear, etc.

Another idea along these lines that I've seen and enjoyed is calling cards. Imagine a pickpocket who doesn't just take some 'sid, leaving the player to wonder if maybe he'd just miscounted it or get OOC angry but have nothing to go on. Imagine one who, instead, after he steals some stuff, plants a kruth card or a rat skull or a soapstone coin or some other recognizable object. Suddenly, the fact you've been stolen from is both a) more obvious to the player (didn't just forget your sword in your locker like an idiot), and b) a tool and pointer for further roleplay is provided.

This wouldn't work for all character concepts, but it might be a particularly good fit for certain elves. They're always trying to show their superiority in trickery and connivance to everyone.

[Fredd]

Theft is good for the game because it's a tool used for storytelling. That's what we're doing: cooperatively storytelling. If you want more people to feel good about pickpocketing, include more people on the feel-good end of the exchange: teach someone to pickpocket IC, distract your mark while your friend goes in for the lift, create a 'fence' PC that makes stolen goods disappear, etc.

Another idea along these lines that I've seen and enjoyed is calling cards. Imagine a pickpocket who doesn't just take some 'sid, leaving the player to wonder if maybe he'd just miscounted it or get OOC angry but have nothing to go on. Imagine one who, instead, after he steals some stuff, plants a kruth card or a rat skull or a soapstone coin or some other recognizable object. Suddenly, the fact you've been stolen from is both a) more obvious to the player (didn't just forget your sword in your locker like an idiot), and b) a tool and pointer for further roleplay is provided.

This wouldn't work for all character concepts, but it might be a particularly good fit for certain elves. They're always trying to show their superiority in trickery and connivance to everyone.

Calling card thieves are a lot of fun!

The best thing for not griefing as a thief, is to not continually rob the same people over and over, unless there's an IC reason for it.

I was taught that the best thieves wont let you know you were stolen from.

If you can steal just enough that it gets overlooks as a miscount of their inventory, or they think they lost something. You are doing it right. (this isn't counting calling cards, this is just a rule of thumb for how much to take, if you are the type that feels guilty)

[Fredd]

This was a dupe

[Rogue Wiggler]

Thanks everybody, good stuff here.

[Jihelu]

Robbing someone over and over is acceptable if you tell them you're doing it as a flex.

Real king shit.

[Armaddict]

Heh, if this is even possible, have you ever been stolen from and liked it? I have enjoyed being raided multiple times, but that's usually a more interactive experience.

It -is- possible, but you need to be careful with it.  In my experience, people get a whole lot less frustrated if you make a scene out of the theft.  I have had an elf steal something while he was getting brawl-coded in the Gaj, which I found fitting.  They got emotes of me being battered and grabbing at their cloak to get up, and I got their fancy dagger and a black eye and fat lip.  No one seemed upset by that.  Everything looked good.  Those scenes are ultimately more enjoyable for everyone.

HOWEVER...these scenes are very hard to do.  People aren't just going to be hunky dory with you taking their things, so as with most things criminal related, stealth is pretty much the only shield you have.  Being stealthy keeps you alive as you establish your reputation in other circles (as noted above, stealing 'just because you can' will not result in enjoyment for target OR you, honestly.  Do what criminals do, start making a name for yourself so you can sell it, or something).  This is a balancing act and a great show of trust to the other player, basically you walking out and extending a hand saying 'I want this to be fun while I do what I'm doing', and depending on them to say 'That's great, but I'm now vetoing what you were doing.'

It's a complicated relationship that causes a lot of strife in the community, so I applaud you working to make it the best you can.  It's hard.  If you find out a best way to engage where you get good results, it might be worth making a post to show the rest of us about it.

[perfecto]

Used to play a ton of Pockets back in my early days. (there weren't as many options then to be fair)  Most of them ended up trying to out-do the other Pockets in the city like some kind of sick inside joke that benefited no-one.  In my opinion tho, the slight of hand skill, when properly executed, is it's own brand of Magic!  If you can pull it off, you can convince an entire room of people to pick on the other guy!  Misdirection at it's BEST

Being able to -open- someone else's closed pack now-a-days, and Plant items, reverse pocket-ninjutsu, open up the role a thousand different ways than were ever available in the past.

One of my most laughable deaths as a pocket was when I had a surplus of food stuffs on me I would go and -plant- food on npc beggars, who screamed THIEF THIEF!! one time and got my mastered pick-pocket gang-slammed by nearby militia lollll   Moral of the story, be funny, but never be kind

[Malken]

You can steal keys from aides and lock them in their apartments.

[Dresan]

The most fun thing I did was steal the mount ticket from a guy in redstorm and then steal his cures before poisoning them. They were able to run back to allanak and survived but they never came back to ask dumb questions again.

You can have fun with a thief, mostly due to the challenge of surviving and thriving as one but I would not recommend it.

Everyone really hates you, not just ICly but very much OOCly. Everyone, even your allies wonder if it was you who stole from their other friends. People begin to complain so damn hard on GDB that staff begin watching you in game and OCC criticizing you on how many hidden emotes you did before each peek, or just actively begin 'bringing the world to life' to try to ruin your experience. Sponsored roles, muls and even Defilers are hired to try to kill you and if you still don't die or quit, well maybe we'd get another round of nerfs to miscreants.

[Fredd]

The most fun thing I did was steal the mount ticket from a guy in redstorm and then steal his cures before poisoning them. They were able to run back to allanak and survived but they never came back to ask dumb questions again.

You can have fun with a thief, mostly due to the challenge of surviving and thriving as one but I would not recommend it.

Everyone really hates you, not just ICly but very much OOCly. Everyone, even your allies wonder if it was you who stole from their other friends. People begin to complain so damn hard on GDB that staff begin watching you in game and OCC criticizing you on how many hidden emotes you did before each peek, or just actively begin 'bringing the world to life' to try to ruin your experience. Sponsored roles, muls and even Defilers are hired to try to kill you and if you still don't die or quit, well maybe we'd get another round of nerfs to miscreants.

People hated thieves before miscreants were a thing. Old School Guild Sniffing out Burglers was a real thing. But they were still my favorite guild to play.