Xenophobia in Tuluk: How it started, and how it's going

[Veselka]

So this seemed like a better topic for a separate thread rather than the Luirs Apartments thread, as it's a different subject!

I really like that Tuluk is a xenophobic society. It makes sense given their recent past in some ways (It's in the history/chronology page, but posting here for ease):

1627 (Year 10 Age 22)
Rumors emerge from Allanak that a team of spies in deep cover were successful in plotting sabotage against Tuluki forces during the lead up to the battle at Tyn Dashra, with whispers that the destruction of Isar's Tree might have been one of their prime targets.

In Tuluk, at a public celebration, High Precentor Ardith Lyksae steps down from his position to become Precentor of the Jihaen Order. A relatively unknown Lirathan by the name of Oralia Negean takes the mantle of High Precentor. Later in the proceedings, an Allanaki templar and soldier are executed publicly by the hand of the High Precentor and the Precentor of the Jihaen Order, respectively.

Over the next month, rumors of widespread disappearances spread throughout Tuluk.

I won't go into more detail than what is publicly on the chronology page, but it can be assumed that 'deep spies' certainly had Tuluki Inks, and that the aftermath of ALL of that (Isar's Tree, Volcano Go Move Bye Bye), Tuluk very quickly became an incredibly xenophobic and mistrusting society, given to skepticism, and scrutiny of outsiders (and insiders) alike. The Listless basically fomented from this moment, in a butterfly effect.

SO!

Xenophobia makes sense.

BUT!

Playability also makes sense.

I feel that a society can be xenophobic without having hard borders throughout the city state. Or, that those borders would be far more fluid and unreasonable. For instance, checkpoints/barriers might be random and spread throughout the city. So some days, foreigners can't return home to their apartments because of a Tattoo Checkpoint. Inconvenient! Horribly rude! But also what it means to live in Tuluk.

Maybe rent prices are double or triple what they are for Tuluki, and your door is randomly unlocked at certain points by the landlord. Ugh!

I just feel there are both creative and more interesting solutions and ways of exemplifying this xenophobia and mistrust (and exploitation) of foreigners in Tuluk than the hard barricade borders currently in place.

Tuluk has (unfortunately) had the bad reputation of being another game unto itself. That secrecy, subtlety, and 'behind closed doors' may as well be considered inactivity and banality to anyone who isn't in the 'in crowd'. That's unfortunate for a few reasons, most of which is because it's true! If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it...Well, that applies very much to Tuluk BEFORE its closure.

Now, with these hard borders, 2/3rds of the city is closed off except to Tuluki, which by definition makes Tuluk a game unto itself, for Tulukis to be pitted against and with other Tulukis, but not needing to involve outside influences unless they want to.

SO: What can we do about something like this, if anything?

My suggestions would be:

-Make the checkpoints/barricades on a rotating basis. Parts of the city become closed off or open up at random intervals, making for unpredictability, and being trapped INSIDE of Tuluk, instead of trapped OUTSIDE of it, or needing to figure out ways in and out of closed sectors. That seems far more creepy to me.

-Make apartments available to foreigners, but make them insanely expensive, and less secure. Or, alternatively, allow Templars and Legionnaires to randomly check foreign apartments.

-Make applying for citizenship codified, but still difficult or nearly impossible. Allow foreigners to join the Tribal Levies, or need to in order to prove themselves for consideration of citizenship. In Rome, they would absolutely press-gang conquered people into military service. But they would not allow them to serve in the elite units unless/until they proved themselves enough to become citizens.

-Have the Listless more 'around' than they currently are, as a reminder of what happens if you step out of line (both for foreigners and Tuluki). There's a few, but it'd be cool to have a few more around.

In general, the xenophobia seems on the level of North Korea -- Complete hard borders. I think it would be more interesting to explore for the game world and those playing the game with a more nuanced, creative approach.

On top of ALL of this -- There needs to be a reason for people who are not TULUKI to engage with TULUK. Be that natural resources (wood, silk, kryl shell) or whatever, but it needs to be made pretty obvious and like a 'no duh' sort of belief of people not from Tuluk. Yes, We don't like going to Tuluk. But we have to. Because we need to get X Y and Z, and that's the only place you can get it.

I feel there needs to be more of that (both for Tuluk and Allanak, and Luirs, and honestly even the Tablelands with all the tribes there), or else they once again become separate spheres of the game, small mini-games unto themselves, rather than part of a greater whole.

[mansa]

I think Tuluk could use some polish in the following areas:

• The "Red Sun Commons" area of Tuluk should be the only area that non-citizens can visit.   I like this, however, I feel that the Red Sun Commons area is lacking in general incentives for non-citizens to visit.   It needs a draw, something special that players would want to take their characters up there and visit.   Here are a few items that could be added to the Red Sun Commons area that would make it interesting for non-citizens:


• Water Seller
• Nenyuk Bank
• Greater Merchant House areas "warehouses", similar to Red Storm.   This should have NPC merchants selling GMH gear.
• Logging/Wood shop that players can "buy wood/sell wood" if they don't have the lumberjacking skill.   Obviously buys very low and sells very high.
• Bards selling instruments
• Herbalist buyer/seller who talks about Tallis' Respite and the benefits that group brings to the city
• Move the perfume seller from Morin's to Red Sun Commons.
• Raw goods seller/buyer, because there are a lot of echos about tanners in the Red Sun Commons
• I like the idea of an apartment complex for non-citizens only - and having the templars/soldiers be able to open all the doors whenever they want to.  Very expensive to live at.
• I'd like to see the Levy be able to automatically/coded join without being forced to find another player that can enable that.

[Barsook]

I do know that some of these things are coming soon (TM). It's all in the plots.

But yeah, we do need these stuff.

[sucre]

I do know that some of these things are coming soon (TM). It's all in the plots.

But yeah, we do need these stuff.

You're right. Some of what Mansa described is in the works. I think it's MEANT to be this way. We shouldn't just drop stuff in for foreigners. It'll get there in due time, I think.

[moonlit]

I think everything is just fine, sometimes trying to "fix" things that are like that for fun IC reasons in the name of gamplay can damage the things that attract people to this game when they would otherwise ignore traditional MUDs that focus on gameplay over story.

You don't need another place to sell and buy things with NPCs! You can still do this buy talking to player characters! It's perfectly possible right now for any outsider to interact with Tuluk. Just try!

[H182]

Agree that everything seems fine as it is currently as some things are in the works to bring about some change already.

I personally think outsiders becoming citizens should be extremely rare and considered by each individual PC case, creating RP with the Templarate and other characters throughout a course of years with such evaluations.  This also increases the risk factor of what happens if that PC turns out to be a spy or such, as whoever permitted them citizenship takes responsibility for that.

A coded system that relies on them providing themselves through some martial capacity and set years, I feel, would contradict the entire feel of the north and its history.

[SpyGuy]

Thought this was a good thread to put some of my thoughts.  They aren't current but I did play in Tuluk shortly after its opening for awhile until I stored.  This is all subjective and I wouldn't call myself a Tuluki fanboy but I did play in the area a lot in the past and had a successful Jihaen for a decent length of time.

What I liked:

The xenophobia is spot on. It's very thematic and imo should be coupled with an equally strong sense of solidarity.  Us against them kind of mentality.  This last part I found lacking which I'll get into below.

City is well done with some great NPCs.  I enjoyed exploring it and liked most of it more than old Tuluk.  Especially the Warrens, they had some great stuff.

There are solid foundations for interesting clans and groups in the city.

What I think could be improved:

It felt very, very top heavy.  This is not a criticism of the players.  But when I tried playing your average commoner I found it to be a lonely experience.  Which is unfortunate because that's most of the population and the role that most new players would experience.  I enjoyed my interactions with highborn, bards and the Akai Sjir but overall wasn't feeling it.

The levy seemed underused.  In my time there I only once had the chance to participate in a sparring session with them.  It seemed like they were kept at arm's length and I'm not sure why.  Likely it was PCs still trying to find their footing and having more important things to focus on but the tribal levies are a way of bringing a whole mess of PCs together and creating a sense of Tuluki identity.  Tuluki patriotism shouldn't just be following the docs, it should have direct impact on the game world.  I think I have some insight on this because if I'm not mistaken the concept of the levy is an evolution of the Citizen's Patrol and Citizen's Call RPTs I started in 2012.  The levy is a fantastic way to get mini RPTs going and giving them little missions, even something as minor as clearing the road or the path to the logging groves, is fun for me.  Also things like clearing the road have the benefit of aiding the survivability of new PCs.  If everyone is dying to carru or whatever with only a day or two played then things won't snowball.

Wilderness play:  Felt dead out there.  I think things like patrols of the Gol should be a standard Legion/Levy event.  Hopefully I just haven't been on at the right times to see these.  Encountering outsiders in the Gol shouldn't instantly be cause to kill them either.  Questioning them, forcing them to come to the city to be interrogated by a templar, confiscating the logs they've harvested...whatever.  It fosters interaction.  As it stands now traveling the northlands doesn't feel a whole lot different than it was before Tuluk opened and tbh there were periods when Tuluk was closed that a few amazing PCs worked to make outsiders feel unwelcome east of the span.

A lack of needing outsiders.  This could very well just have been me not seeing it but I did have an encounter on a non-Tuluki PC that I think discouraged interaction with Tuluk. Basically the PCs then had no interest in anything from outsiders and so that just shuts down any potential to further a plot. Yes, Tuluk somehow survived its isolation and is mostly self sufficient.  That said they've opened the gates now and have like a billion more problems with the whole reason there was a war RPT and all that.  Tuluki should have a need for goods from the outside to make up for what natural resources they lack and what skills they lack from being isolated inside the city for generations.  This is not to say outsiders should be trusted, far from it.  But they should be used if it furthers Tuluk's goals.

Too many taverns.  Seriously.  They all made sense as to why they were there but I don't think 4+ gathering spots fosters interaction.

I don't think any of these are things that can't be improved by players and staff and it was all 6 months ago so maybe they're already non-issues.  But from my experience it'll likely be awhile before I make another Tuluki PC.

[Troicha]

I want precisely two things changed about Tuluk presently that I don't think are strictly within the realm of player action. Note this isn't everything I think could be better about Tuluk, but one of the things I do love about Tuluk is that it feels like it has a lot of potential to be shaped by interested players and was intentionally built that way.

I want the Red Sun Commons to either feel a little busier or a little more obviously "this is a front, it's threadbare, don't look too close or people won't take too kindly." Either one of those could easily be accomplished by a few changes in room descs and echoes, or possibly the inclusion of another shop or similar.

and

I want the shops that do exist and aren't placed somewhere specific for thematic reasons - like certain poor-goods sellers in the Warrens - to be consolidated a little, so it's easier to check the market and go on shopping and selling trips. Doesn't need to be a lot, but e.g. the bazaar in Allanak or old new Freil's Rest were both IC-sensible and an OOC convenience.

[roughneck]

Tuluk needs a city planner. I don't know the last Tuluk very well so I tried a PC there since re-opening. Trying to find anything or anybody was frustrating as hell and I'll never play there again. If I was a brand new player I can't imagine ever making it more than an hour through the experience.

[Barsook]

I think Tuluk always had that problem of how it's planned, but I agee that it needs to be thought out more.

[moonlit]

Most of the shops are down one street... The others all nearby... It's impossible to miss, it's just a big SQUARE, and I'm allowed to say that because there's a page on the website even! It's not some mess of alleyways like Allanak (which is also fun in its own way!), unable to find anything...? What the krath?

[sucre]

Most of the shops are down one street... The others all nearby... It's impossible to miss, it's just a big SQUARE, and I'm allowed to say that because there's a page on the website even! It's not some mess of alleyways like Allanak (which is also fun in its own way!), unable to find anything...? What the krath?

It took me a minute to understand the Warrens, but the Commons?

Yes, the Commons are just a big ol' square, y'all!

[Fredd]

Friels rest was more or less one stop shopping in old tuluk.

New Tuluk feels confusing at first, but it's really, really not. Give it a bit of walk around, and you will learn it fairly quickly.

[Aruven]

Some really great feedback in here.

Thanks for starting this thread.

I'm just on a break, so I'll elaborate more later.

I did want to add in to what's been said a couple times. Some things are in the works, and im personally grateful staff seem to have dropped players in to shape the city and culture through their own play. That'd a new thing and opportunity, and it will feel clunky at times.

[Brokkr]

When the City was closed, there was no need for RSC to function like it does now, as there were no Outsiders.  It was sort of intended to evolve.  Having the City open with everything in place to be convenient for the Outsider/Citizen split would have made no sense.  Especially when it gives a multi-year opportunity for characters to generate plots around.

Also, remember that the area around the Vineyards is also part of the Public Quarter.  So there isn't just one place open to Outsiders.

[Fredd]

When the City was closed, there was no need for RSC to function like it does now, as there were no Outsiders.  It was sort of intended to evolve.  Having the City open with everything in place to be convenient for the Outsider/Citizen split would have made no sense.  Especially when it gives a multi-year opportunity for characters to generate plots around.

Also, remember that the area around the Vineyards is also part of the Public Quarter.  So there isn't just one place open to Outsiders.

This was the better way. because the players can get to kind of build there own city. It's going to be neat to see how it goes.