Blood and Bloodied Weapons and Injuries

[Angela Christine]

Do you, the players, think that it would be better to sacrifice potential playability with the coded "realism" of having blood loss? Beyond the difficulty to code, this would be a major concern. Currently, the world is pretty harsh as it is...would adding code such as this make the game better, or worse?

Honestly, I think it wouldn't work unless some other things were changed too.

Yes, it is possible to heal absurdly fast.  I believe that is to make up for the fact that PC are not able to be logged in 24/7.  As people that get spiced or drunk learn, a PC that isn't logged in much can take half a year to sober up from a good party.  

If injuries were slower to heal, a PC might have to spend many hours "crippled" by his injury.  Since most of us wouldn't find that fun to RP for very long, some folks would RP the crippling injury for half an hour or an hour, and then log out.  When they log back in, weeks later ICly, they are just as injured as they were the day of the injury.  Again, this is only going to be amusing for so long, and then the player logs out again.  When PCs are forced into situations they don't like, they often respond by logging in less.  If you wanted to play a cripple you would have applied for a cripple, if you planned to play something other than a cripple you may be put off if your character is forced to become a cripple.  

I think the logical result would be that some players, especially newbies just trying out the MUD for the first time, would simply stop playing.  Others might give up when their character gets a critical injury that will lead to long-term disability, and simply allow their character to go out in a blaze of glory.  You can get a new healthy character in 24 hours, so why wait days and days for your existing character to heal from his broken leg?  Sure, you'll wait it out if your character is involved in a good web or relationships and plots, but there is really no incentive to hang around with your newbie character if it is going to be *forced* into a "tavern sitter" role for the next three weeks.  There would probably also be more idle characters sitting in safe locations without twitching for hours on end, just to get past the healing hump.

The only way I can see to moderate the detrimental effects would be to have characters heal even when the player isn't there.  Let PCs heal when they are logged out.  Perhaps at a slower rate than they would if they were sitting around idle, but still healing.  

While you are at it, let 'em recover from booze and spice while they are logged out too.  Sometimes I'm surprised to find that my character is still affected by spice, because I don't remember what spice(s) I took or what effect(s) I'm supposed to be experiencing.

AC

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Yeah, I'd be very reluctant to accept a bleeding or permanent injury code. I agree with the nay-sayers that it'd get real old, real fast, forcing people into playing things they don't really want to play.

You can only moan and groan and whimper about your broken arm for so long... Must people probably RP out their injury for a RL hour or so, sleep and/or rest off the damage, log out, then log back in about 24 hours, RP unwrapping bandages or picking at scabs, then getting back and moving.

I think some of you supporting broken bone codes are forgetting some things... Where would we be if some of the more well-known militaristic chracters became crippled early in their career? And if you're adding in broken bones, why not blindness? How would you like to see 'your blind!' for every room descripition, character description, and item description you come into contact with? What if you get smacked in the head? Can we code in brain damage? Scramble speech whenever your character talks for now until forever? Maybe add in amnesia... How would you like to see 'You are unknown. You are unknown years, unknown months, and unknown days old' every time you type score? Frankly, I'd just store my character. That kind of thing would be immensly frustrating.

My point is things can get kind of ridiculous. Personally, I try to roleplay out injuries when they occur, and generally have a grand 'ol time doing it. Recently, my character got bopped in the head... He passed out from blood loss, was very disoriented from the head-wound, even pawned off his recently purchased helmet once he got better, regarding it as 'worthless' and 'ineffective'. Eventually, however, I got tired of RPing a bed-ridden whiner, so I went out and did the rough-and-tumble stuff again. No more than fifteen RL minutes into it... What happens? Anakore.

If injuries were hard-coded, I'd be in for another session of licking my wounds and lying about useless on a cot. It gets old, really, and I'd like my character to shrug off injuries on occasion, simply because it can get pretty annoying, espicially if you encounter a string of bad luck.

Also, a good thing to keep in mind is that we're all playing big, tough Zalanthans, who are stronger and firmer in every way than us wussy Earthans. Furthermore, they're grappling in mortal combat with wood, stone and bone... Hardly sharp or effective weapon materials.

[Mr.Camel]

And Obsidian, that's sharp.

[Stroker]

Yeah, can't obsidian hold an edge as sharp as metal or something?

[JollyGreenGiant]

I posted this elsewhere once, but obsidian, glass, and certain ceramics are among the few materials capable of a monomolecular edge.  Basically, obsidian and glass aren't just "as sharp" as metal, they're the sharpest things around.

[Stroker]

So is my wit!

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Yeah, I heard that as well... I'm wondering (not trying to be snide or anything, really wondering) does Zalanthas have the technology to get a monomolecular edge? Would an obsidian weapon be able to reach it's full potential? That's something to think about, too.

[Wintermute]

I wouldn't think it'd be consistently monomolecular, but I'm sure some portions of a cutting edge would be after the chipping process to create it.

But I think that's beside the point - compared to the other readily available materials for weaponry (bone, wood and other types of stone), obsidian and glass will always have the best edge.  How long that edge and the weapon itself will last is another question altogether.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Bring on the bloodloss code. Bring on the permenant injuries. Bring on everything which can make the world harsher.

Now. Will it reduce playability? Fuck no. This game is not about combat. It is about life. And trust me, if you run into a damned half-giant, you need to get your head beat the fuck in. Muls and half-giants should be able to one-hit kill folks a lot more than they do. It's bullshit that they can't. I am not saying make them harder, just more deadly.

Change the combat code. Change the healing code. Fuck it. If somebody chops you in the head and does horrendous damage, it ought to kill you. It is that simple.

Will more folks die? Well, yeah. And? Stop bitching. Will folks actually need to pick the doctor subclass? Yeah, prolly will. So? Get to actually roleplaying in the fucking desert. Should someone be able to, in any situation what so ever, go from near death to excellent condition with a little sleep, without magickal interaction? Fuck no.

If there are permenant injuries, ok. Have more peglegs, canes, etc. Hooks on the hand. Heh. Yeah.

More folks will retire characters. I say, let them. And if they like their character for anything other than stats, then they will not retire them. That's all.

That's the bottom line.

[God]

Your post is offensive, Venomz.  You "hardcore" bastards don't really understand what RP is about. It's not about realism, or death. Having people die withone fucking hit lends nothing to RP. RP is exploring characters and interactions with characters, and the story that they create. The bottom-line is that PC death lends very little to RP, especially when it's from some stupid NPC or twinkish PC.

Bah. It's pointless to even debate with certain people.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

My post i...what t...co...it's pointless. You'd never understand what I am trying to say.

Go play a mush, God.

[Armaddict]

Actually, RP is about playing a character realistically within an environment.  It's not about things being changed so that you can stay alive longer so that you can talk to more people with your character.

I actually agree with Venomz (it doesn't happen often).  A half-giant, really, should be something you don't want to fuck with.  Really, a half-giant's hit -should- have a chance to work like bash.  Anyone who could remain standing after a knock from one of these fuckers is a hardcore bastard.

All that Venomz is saying (I think), is that part of the harshness in arm comes from all the people who can and will kick your ass...and combat holds relatively small effect on your character.  You can get totally whomped by a giant, escape with 19hp, and pop out the next day role-playing injuries, but really suffering very little negative effects.

Or something.  I wouldn't mind seeing muls and giants being a lot more dangerous.

[God]

To be honest, I support a more realistic combat code, but first things first. As it is, very old characters can already decimate new characters in a few OOC seconds. That's stupid. It should begin by leveling the playing field. Three mediocre warriors against one very skilled warrior means that the weaker warriors would outflank him and kill him. Four against one, and the skilled warrior has nearly no chance. That's realism. No more supermen.

Was thinking about debating against your beliefs, but it's too pointless. I can already tell that you're set in your "hardcoreness".

[Armaddict]

You'd be surprised.  Yes, it becomes much more complicated and hard, but no...four mediocre fighters against a master does -not- mean certain death for the master.

I would provide points to back this up, but I'm short for time, and don't think it would matter much anyway.  This appears to be an issue of opinion.

[creeper386]

Well like I said earlier I wouldn't mind things being more realistic, but I'm still not for permenant injury or any sort of massive blood loss code that makes combat even MORE deadly.

Some people do RP but prefer more combat oriented roles, they are just as a useful contribution to people that RP and play non combat oriented roles, and people that switch back and forth.

Major changes like this really restricts a portion of the player base. It'll come down to the combat classes have a high turn over rate and the only long lived characters are the one who avoid all fights. Might be realistic, but isn't that playable. Combat classes are already incredibly powerful. Things like this would make them EVEN MORE powerful when it comes to killing a non combat class. I've seen half-giants knock out another half-giant in a single blow with a sparring weapon. I'd imagine that half-giants are already deadly to smaller races, but half-giants are also HUGE SLOW beasts. They should be easier to get away from then they are now.

Yes muls are quicker, and powerful, but I'm pretty sure they aren't faster then your average human. All that muscle and odd proportion would slow you down, but they are ussually fairly unthinking, restricted to what they are told and they training they have received. I imagine even among escaped slaves just the fact they aren't really raised to have a huge amount of free thought they are going to be geniouses when it comes to combat tactics. They are going to rely on brute strength, sheer force, and massive stubborness to not stop more then intellegent, well planned, and adaptive combat manuevers.

Muls and half-giants are already scary things. Combat is already VERY deadly. Making it so that it is even RARE to get heavy blood loss or permenant injury, I can assure you it'll still be pretty common. I've seen similar things be coded in. Math tends to work in really odd ways especially in computers. It'll happen much more then planned or be incredibly rare most likely.

Personally, I can live without a mainly combative role, but can say that to me adding in additional blood less damage can and most likely well end up being a playability issue, as well permenant injury. I know when I DO feel like playing a combative role I don't want to sit most of the characters life in some barracks or tavern healing off an injury. If I wanted to be stranded in a non-combat role most the time I'd pick a character that was wasn't combat oriented.

Yes shit happens, but as it's stated in other posts, in varying degrees. There are some things people don't want to deal with. There are some things they'd rather not experience. They come here to have fun. Not to have their RP ideas be cut to shreds the first time someone lands a solid blow on their character. This is a game. You have to have some realism to get better in character, but you have to sacrifice realism for playability. If real life was greatly entertaining, we'd be playing that, not a game.

Creeper

[Bestatte]

I came to Armageddon with great trepidation, because I had never experienced permanent death in a game. I had also never tried any free game that I liked, and came from the pay-to-play arena. I also absolutely loathed the idea of auto-combat. It wasn't even til over 6 months into playing the game that I tried a combat-oriented character. I hated it that much.

Once I actually started reading the docs and hopped into the game with my first character, I realized how awesome Arm is.

Sure, there's a couple of things I miss from my old games, such as injury locations. Sure, I think it could work in Arm. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice the game -as it is now- in exchange for the little details that I personally enjoy.

I play arm because I like it. Not because I want to rewrite it. If I want a different combat system badly enough, I'll play a game that has one. If I want seeping bloodloss and pulses and missing limbs, I'll go back to playing the games that had them.

If, on the other hand, I was able to add injury locations -WITHOUT- changing the combat system, then I'd write up the code and submit it. Looking back at my previous gaming experience, I can say with all confidence that "pulse-based" bloodloss is NO improvement on Armageddon. It is unneccessary and serves no purpose other than to frustrate players, and promote people scrambling in their IMs to beg buddies to log in and heal them or drag them to town. Don't think I'm kidding. I'm not. That is exactly what happens.

As it stands now, if you get badly hurt, you can get to safety on your own, unless you're unconcious. If you're unconcsious, no buddy on your IM list is gonna get to you in time anyway, so there's no point in even bothering.  This sort of behavior isn't a problem in Armageddon, because this kind of system doesn't exist in Armageddon. If you want to find out how players behave in a system that has these things implemented, PM me and I'll give you the websites to the games that have them. Trust me..you'll come back here BEGGING not to change a thing.