sponsored role unstorage opinion

[Lotion]

Players should sometimes be allowed to unstore their characters they are required to store when playing a sponsored role.

I postulate:
1) There are situations in which it is inappropriate to unstore a player's character after they play sponsored roles
2) The situations described in postulate one are the most important part of the reason why players are not allowed to unstore characters they stored before playing sponsored roles
3) There are situations where it is not inappropriate to unsture a player's character after they play sponsored roles
4) It is possible to determine the difference between the situations described in postulates one and three
5) In situations described in postulate three players should be allowed to unstore

[Dar]

Am I daft? I don't understand this post.

[Lotion]

Am I daft? I don't understand this post.

Yes.

[Dar]

Okey.

[Aruven]

I used to have issues storing a character to take a sponsored role.

I don't mind the sacrifice now because by the time I am done in any sponsored role I usually have no reason to go back to the previous role.|

These reasons are numerous but the main ones are: (Involved PC players are dead and gone by then, the supporting arcs for said plot are likewise gone, I have no desire to pick up a new role whilst after over 100 characters I still have many ideas to try out and one life to live)

I am not attached  to this idea one way or another, and in some ways I can see an actual downside. If people knew they could sacrifice their current arc immediately to take on a role, and then get dropped back into a character in the long frozen stats and position, it would create and leave a series of gaps in the game frequently. Potentially.

[betweenford]

Some people die or store a week into a sponsored role, so............................ let them go back to their char

[X-D]

As I was saying in the other thread.

The option to unstore should be in place in most cases.

I also said that odds are, if somebody managed to hold the role for say a year or more they would not want to unstore anyway. Basically what you were saying Aruven.

Now I do not know how much having a possible option to unstore a PC might affect leader role call interest.
I mean, it seems to me every time one that would interest me comes up, I am actually having enough fun with my PC that I simply don't want to stop playing them.

So anyway.

Situations where I think there would be issue on unstoring....
Um.....
Hhhmmm....
Nope, I cannot think of a single one.

The only things I can think of are easily fixed, Like, 3 RL years went by...Hey, if somebody wants to play a much older PC, we are allowed sdesc/mdesc changes anyway.

[Lotion]

I used to have issues storing a character to take a sponsored role.

I don't mind the sacrifice now because by the time I am done in any sponsored role I usually have no reason to go back to the previous role.|

These reasons are numerous but the main ones are: (Involved PC players are dead and gone by then, the supporting arcs for said plot are likewise gone, I have no desire to pick up a new role whilst after over 100 characters I still have many ideas to try out and one life to live)

I am not attached  to this idea one way or another, and in some ways I can see an actual downside. If people knew they could sacrifice their current arc immediately to take on a role, and then get dropped back into a character in the long frozen stats and position, it would create and leave a series of gaps in the game frequently. Potentially.

People randomly die and store all the time. I don't see how this would be different.

[Hestia]

Devil's Advocate time again (notice I'm not giving opinion at all, just tossing a potential wrench in the idea, to see what you do with it without making your idea more complex):

You know you can store your tribal. Your tribal is involved in all kinds of fun stuff, with some awesome other players from different tribes and clans. If your tribemates die, you'll still have fun with everyone else, so it's all good.

You roll up a Byn Sergeant with option to unstore your tribal.

You find out after your first 2 days that there's a contract to destroy that tribe.

The tribe your character would unstore in, and be subsequently hunted down and killed for.

Go.

[FamousAmos]

I see your point Hestia,

But I think the benefits outweigh the risk. Besides, if staff thinks there is potentially a risk of metagaming, then this could always be discussed by with the player in question before and/or after (un)storage.

More times than not I've seen PC's of special apps either die or store again so soon, because its just not a fitting concept for them, or simply have bad luck.

[triste]

I have made the same argument as Hestia when we discussed this with temp raider roles, but in this case I am less alarmed by this risk because you wouldn't be able to switch back and forth multiple times.

If we made a list of costs/benefits here, I think the potential benefit of this proposal outweighs the cost. Many great players probably miss out on roles because they are committed to their current PC. It also sucks to store for a role and immediately die as FamousAmos just mentioned.

[X-D]

So, saying that possible somebody would not act IC because it could affect later play?

You realize that is always the case with every PC in the game right?

So, I am playing a byn sarge and we are contracted to go wipe out this tribe. And it is a tribe I planned on playing in with my next PC. No difference.
Or it is a tribe I really loved playing in the past and expect to in the future....same thing again.

But aside from things like this having very low odds of happening...this is a point where I think I would trust the person to play the PC they currently have.

[betweenford]

Devil's Advocate time again (notice I'm not giving opinion at all, just tossing a potential wrench in the idea, to see what you do with it without making your idea more complex):

You know you can store your tribal. Your tribal is involved in all kinds of fun stuff, with some awesome other players from different tribes and clans. If your tribemates die, you'll still have fun with everyone else, so it's all good.

You roll up a Byn Sergeant with option to unstore your tribal.

You find out after your first 2 days that there's a contract to destroy that tribe.

The tribe your character would unstore in, and be subsequently hunted down and killed for.

Go.

kill

[Hestia]

Good discussion on this, but no solution.

Perhaps this would be a solution:

If a person apps for a role that the staff -knows- will involve the person's current character, we can just deny the app in favor of someone else's app.  Your app was great, but we've chosen to go with a different player's app.

[Jihelu]

If the positions are just extremely opposed and there's a chance there could just be like, an open discussion on it.

"We just want you to know that because this role is so opposed to your current character we can't offer you unstorage should your sponsored role die"

There, I did it. Playing a Crimson Wind raider and apping in a Sergeant in the Arm? Sorry, too conflicted. You can app it in but you probably won't be allowed to unstore should you die.

I'll take my check in the mail.

[creeper386]

Truthfully, not being "done" with my current character has always prevented me from applying for special roles.

If there was an option to unstore ... Especially if I had some time IC to sort out a few things before storing my character, I'd try applying for special roles. Otherwise. Either I'd to be ready to store my character or already dead when a role goes out and ... Well that so far has never lined up.

[Delirium]

To play devil's advocate to devil's advocate... how is playing a crimson wind raider after an AoD role any different than unstoring a crimson wind raider after getting burned out by an AoD role (since we're using that example)? Heck, I personally almost always play an area or allegiance entirely different from or opposed to the one I previously played when I roll up a new character, so I'm not sure how that's even different from the unstorage example. There will be things you the player know that you simply have to not carry over, and at some point staff has to just trust players that they will do that.

That said, to compromise, perhaps the option to unstore could be made available primarily to those who are not in a high-profile or clanned role, so that if you're playing an indie hunter you really enjoy, and you realize that playing Noble Floofypants just isn't fun, you have that reassurance that you can go back to playing that character you previously had.

Take it on a case by case basis, and TRUST players -- if they prove unworthy of that trust, THEN punish them. But don't pre-emptively decide that they're going to be abusive unless they've given you real reason to believe that.

[Jihelu]

I agree with Delirium. I hear a lot of, from staff and players, of not trying to do things because 'people will ruin it' type mentality.

[Taahir]

Good discussion on this, but no solution.

Perhaps this would be a solution:

If a person apps for a role that the staff -knows- will involve the person's current character, we can just deny the app in favor of someone else's app.  Your app was great, but we've chosen to go with a different player's app.

Or you could just let the player know that unstoring their current PC isn't an option for them if they get that specific role.

[Tranquil]

A vast majority of arguments both from players and staff on this forum is, "you can't trust the players".

I personally detest that argument. Putting a layman's answer on every situation is a good way to turn away any suggestion, and I think is very ignorant, as things like this are very situation by situation.

I do think unstoring should be far, far more common and actually considered. Most times when I store roles for a sponsored role and that sponsored role wasn't to my liking, I'm sort-of tossed to the wind as for ideas. Leads me to not have a stable character for a while, and leads to my enjoyment of the game going down-hill. Each time, I always regret storing that character. There are still some characters that I'd love to come back to, but I know won't be able to.

[Dar]

Assassinate a Noble with one character and be put in charge of investigation of the nobles murder with your next? It's happened before and hopefully was played well enough

[Dan]

I think storage for sponsored roles should always leave the door open for unstorage.

Following the death/storage of your sponsored role, you should be able to request unstorage of the previously stored PC with your assessed justification of how it will not impact your play.  Barring conflicting interests, it should be granted.

[X-D]

Hestia's example(s) Seem only based on the idea that Players are saying YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE UNSTORE OPTION.

Which is not the case. Players only say, These should be an option to unstore. That is not at all the same thing at all.

Currently there is no option to unstore. You take a role, you store, you never get that PC back. We are only saying that in some or many cases that option should be there.

And keep in mind, the other word is "Option". This does not mean anybody is saying you should always get that PC back after. What they are saying is that the window should be open that when the role is over, the player and staff will talk a bit on the -option-. If it is viable, what have you.

Dan has the right of it.

Tranquil...So far I have only seen one argument that is on the "can't trust players" side...and that is from a staffer...Well, I guess you are correct though...as it seems to be the only arguments against.


I also doubt the option would even be used as often as some thing. I see leader roles go for years. I doubt if the guy who played some kadian for 30 months is going to take the option to unstore that human miscreant who is now 55 years old. Though...Even if they did...so what?

But what it would do is make somebody, who has a 300 hour PC not have to worry so much if they make an AOD sarge and some RPT wipes him out in a week and having to start over with a 0 hour PC.

[Evilone]

I don't like it for the potential for abuse. It's essentially allowing a stat check for a character, and then if you don't like it, you can return to a more favorable character in a week or so, or few weeks. In that time, you could also be destroying other PCs with no kind of repercussions because you will just be going back to your old character. Or you could be supporting people your previous PC was allies with, and then when you return you are even better off. One thing I hate already is people who hurt other PC's, and then dissapear (store) within a time that doesn't allow you to resolve the issue. I've had thousands of sid and items stolen from me in that manner, and it's lame.

You either have the option, or you don't because there will be players who will be bitter and jealous and cry favoritism by staff if their option is declined.

And for those reasons, I'm out.

[Dar]

Your GDB handle is very very apt, Evilone. Yikes.