Opinions on a Public Leaders forum

[Aromit]

Players have mentioned how nice it would be to have the leaders of clans be more reachable and to more easily get notified of the what's what. Also for enabling leaders of clans to more easily communicate and arrange events and playtimes together more easily for the benefit of the playerbase at large.

My initial thought. A public forum with a recommended template along the lines of

Character name:
Character rank:
Sdesc (optional):
Playtimes:

Included will be a list of clans/ranks that are free to post their leaders on this (sergeants/nobles/templars/GMH leaders). This board will be moderated as any other and require no pre-approval, special access or posting privileges. Participation would be optional. As a benefit to the staffing team, this would require minimal and I feel provide a boon to the players that would like to participate.

I'm interested in the thoughts of the community at large with this idea, is it wanted?

[Patuk]

Yes, please.

[MeTekillot]

Yes, please.

[Tranquil]

This'd be great. Yes please!

[Doctor9]

This is great for tribes too! +1

[mansa]

I'm uneasy about letting other players know who you are currently playing, which would be apparent if you post under your popular GDB handle.

I'm also uneasy about letting other players know what your typical playtimes are, if they are planning harm to your character.


However, I think it would be better to the game as a whole to share this information, so new characters can jump into the game and start to their own plots knowing who the major pieces are.

[Suok]

I'm uneasy about letting other players know who you are currently playing, which would be apparent if you post under your popular GDB handle.

I'm also uneasy about letting other players know what your typical playtimes are, if they are planning harm to your character.


However, I think it would be better to the game as a whole to share this information, so new characters can jump into the game and start to their own plots knowing who the major pieces are.

I feel the same. This makes me nervous but I see the good in it.

[Narf]

I'm also uneasy about letting other players know what your typical playtimes are, if they are planning harm to your character.

I would argue that it's actually the reverse of this that might be the biggest problem. A person shouldn't use OOC means to hide from harm, but what I might be concerned about is a player using a Leader's login time to /hide/ from the leader OOCly.

That said, this could be rectified if leaders didn't post too comprehensive a list of their log on times, just posting the most common.

[Reiloth]

Benefits:
-Allows for multi-clan RPTs to be much easier coordinated.

-Allows for leaders to directly contact other leaders on an OOC level. Oftentimes, you are not privy to what a Templar's handle is on the GDB, have to go through their aide/a soldier PC, and rely on their organization skills and for things to not get lost in translation. I can't tell you how many times I've played a Byn Sergeant and had RPT times messed up by the messenger, simply because I don't have similar playtimes to the Templar and can't ever get them on the phone.

-Allows for people thinking of their next concept to see what the current roster of leaders is, and what their playtimes are, and if they match up with said playtimes. Often, a PC will meet a leader PC at a bizarre time slot for that leader (Like, 9AM one random morning that leader could log on, they recruit the person, but will never see them again because they never play at that time.)

-Allows for Staff to keep an updated list of active leaders in a public forum. Similar to the Wizlist/active Staff list that is updated by Staff on the GDB. As a visually minded person, it might also allow Staff to see where they are lacking some leaders in a visual/venn diagram sense, or have too many in one area of influence.

Consequences/Downsides:

-I dislike any system that doesn't originate and take place inside the game. I don't like having to play the Request Tool as much as I play the game, for instance, as a leadership PC. I don't like having things outside of the game that I have to monitor, that affect things inside the game. This would add one more thing to that list.

-I don't like OOC associations with GDB handles. I'd personally circumvent this by using alts if and when ever using that forum or submitting to it.

-I can see it being abused, but people who abuse a system like this already abuse other systems in the game or outside of it (Secret Discords, etc).

Overall, I'm in favor of it, and would use it with my leadership PCs.

[Gentleboy]

You can put whatever hours you like down, doesn't mean you'll always be available to play them.

Already people ask "around what time of the week is this person about.

I see no issue. Especially since it's not like a schedule in stone.

[Tuannon]

tl:dr

I'd be fine with the proposal if the only information was posted by staff and had the relavent data:

Lord Fuckface Oash
Lord Afro
7pm to midnight server
The paunchy, paisley afro-ed man

[X-D]

If optional...Whatever.

If I was playing a leader I would not use it...not even with an alt account.

[sucre]

tl:dr

I'd be fine with the proposal if the only information was posted by staff and had the relavent data:

Lord Fuckface Oash
Lord Afro
7pm to midnight server
The paunchy, paisley afro-ed man

This would alleviate a lot of revelations. I think staff posting player relayed info, viewable to those who have access, would be a better idea.

[zealus]

Yes. I like this.

If people don't want to reveal themselves, they can use an alt.

This would save a lot on the leaders too, it can sometimes be a challenge to remind people that you're not dead, just offpeak

[Tranquil]

If people don't want to reveal themselves, they can use an alt.

This.

I think the consequences are reasonable, but I think as Aromit said it on discord: "quite frankly, foul play or abuse of ooc knowledge is sort of one of those things where I feel "bullshit finds a way"" puts it perfectly.

Anything bad that can happen from this would happen either way, and again.. it would be entirely optional. I would personally use the forum on any leader I play, as it allows people who aren't in my clan to better play with my leader. Be it attempted assassination, trying to get hired, or RPT organizing on GDB PMs instead of borderline OOC psi conversations.

[Nao]

Please, yes.

Nothing sucks like repeatedly trying to contact Lady Borsail because you absolutely need to talk to Lady Borsail, but having no idea when that player is online, and that would resolve most of that issue.

Alt gdb handles are a good option if you don't want PCs to be associated with the main account.

[Barsook]

tl:dr

I'd be fine with the proposal if the only information was posted by staff and had the relavent data:

Lord Fuckface Oash
Lord Afro
7pm to midnight server
The paunchy, paisley afro-ed man

This would alleviate a lot of revelations. I think staff posting player relayed info, viewable to those who have access, would be a better idea.

But if the promise to keep it up to date month to month or something.

[Inks]

I wouldn't use it most likely. But have nothing against it existing if optional. Maybe I would.

[Night Queen]

I don't think there's any point in it really because the ingame boards can be used in the same way, and are nicely separated to keep the air of mystery that can only be revealed by stories from other characters or travelling: if there's just a global board, it would ruin a lot of the atmosphere and make it feel like one of those games where the important characters are all posted up on a wiki. Especially sdescs, the fun of not knowing that person is important in a crowd would go, and the game of recognising insignia and stuff like that. If you're from the other side of the known, it should be interesting.

I saw one of the leaders in law enforcement factions posted playtimes on those IC boards months ago which reinforces that it's not needed to be on the game-wide forums, but seeing that alone actually made me feel disappointed in the impression that they were making out their group is for crazy role play with bestfriends at specific times, and not for people of other timezones:

— Not only for joining, but also for the whole city/game at large to "serve"(/OPPRESS) people - when you say "this is the time we play" that cuts a divide through half the game. And people that might otherwise join will self-select themselves out (instead of giving it a try and maybe ending up meeting someone else in that clan, seeing a sign that says "NO", and turning away - this is one of those PR psychology kind of things) and it'll just reinforce the existing hierarchies where most clans end up with a single leader on US timezone, instead of two leaders to give more depth to the world - and retain players!

[Inks]

I like Night Queen's post.

[williamson]

I think the benefit of this idea outweighs the risks, especially for new players.

[Bogre]

I think the downside of this is not so much people knowing who you play (for instance, I have a clan-specific account), but in players knowing who's in and around the other areas of the world. It may be hard to send minions to go find out who's leading so and so clan when you just kinda know that there's a southern templar named Gormenmorgen.

[Maso]

I think the downside of this is not so much people knowing who you play (for instance, I have a clan-specific account), but in players knowing who's in and around the other areas of the world. It may be hard to send minions to go find out who's leading so and so clan when you just kinda know that there's a southern templar named Gormenmorgen.

Agreed. Honestly, maybe it should only be like.. Byn and GMHs. Would definitely take away a lot from espionage plots between the two cities to just have all the nobles, templars and militia sergeants up there. They are kind of 'next level' clans anyway, and if you want to work for a noble/templar, being able to find out who the nobles are is probably the the easiest of the challenges (and, like I said on the new player thread.. that journey is part of the roleplay).

[Narf]

I could see removing law enforcement type clans from the board, just to start.

Give it a while, see what happens. If every clan but law enforcement surges in popularity and functionality, add them in later. If it doesn't make a huge difference, leave them out.

[Armaddict]

Is there no way that you can enable that old option of anonymous posts on the board for just a single forum or somethin'?

[Dar]

I would imagine most leaders have access to a gdb clan subforum. Is it possible to create GDB handles and give them to leaders? So the GDB handle is the same, forum accesses on it are the same, the owners of the account differs with each new leader.

[The Gruffalo]

I saw one of the leaders in law enforcement factions posted playtimes on those IC boards months ago which reinforces that it's not needed to be on the game-wide forums, but seeing that alone actually made me feel disappointed in the impression that they were making out their group is for crazy role play with bestfriends at specific times, and not for people of other timezones:

Man, this is a kick in the gut that it was taken like that. I posted the current most active playtimes of the clan to help facilitate interaction. Nothing sucks more than joining a clan and realizing it's dead during your common playtimes and that all the RPTs tend to happen while you're asleep. If you want to join anyway and make the clan come alive during those hours, great. That's awesome. Please don't take attempts to HELP facilitate play and syncing up with other players as exclusionary and cliquish. That was the opposite of the intention.

For what it's worth, those playtimes I posted covered a wide block of semi off-peak and on-peak times.

For the OP,

I'm not a fan of posting sdescs and names on publicly available boards. I don't even like the GDB check-in threads, but since we're lacking a comparable IC option they're the best compromise we've currently got.

[Night Queen]

(I don't think this was you, there was a post I saw that was just listing a time at a specific US time every day) The thing is, a clan like that isn't meant to be just RPTs, it's not meant to be insular, it's a city-wide clan that affects players of all time-zones, so part of the thing is not only showing up at a specific time - but having an even spread of players, not only circled around one leader's times. When there's a prescribed time to show up, it's saying to the general playerbase that the whole city is a dead time outside those times, because of the special role involved and needed there.

Also, if there's no timezone listed, people will at least try asking around IC to find other members of a clan, but if they are listed, they are much more likely to give up before starting

[Nao]

I don't think there's any point in it really because the ingame boards can be used in the same way, and are nicely separated to keep the air of mystery that can only be revealed by stories from other characters or travelling: if there's just a global board, it would ruin a lot of the atmosphere and make it feel like one of those games where the important characters are all posted up on a wiki. Especially sdescs, the fun of not knowing that person is important in a crowd would go, and the game of recognising insignia and stuff like that. If you're from the other side of the known, it should be interesting.

I saw one of the leaders in law enforcement factions posted playtimes on those IC boards months ago which reinforces that it's not needed to be on the game-wide forums, but seeing that alone actually made me feel disappointed in the impression that they were making out their group is for crazy role play with bestfriends at specific times, and not for people of other timezones:

— Not only for joining, but also for the whole city/game at large to "serve"(/OPPRESS) people - when you say "this is the time we play" that cuts a divide through half the game. And people that might otherwise join will self-select themselves out (instead of giving it a try and maybe ending up meeting someone else in that clan, seeing a sign that says "NO", and turning away - this is one of those PR psychology kind of things) and it'll just reinforce the existing hierarchies where most clans end up with a single leader on US timezone, instead of two leaders to give more depth to the world - and retain players!

In game boards aren't useful when you don't have a character in the area and want to avoid the frustration of not having anyone to play with because all the leaders play at 4am. You might still make your PC there, but can prepare and change the concept a bit so it also works as an indie, or you can run off to a different location without breaking character if it doesn't work out.

I would never see a giant "NO" sign, I would just gravitate towards something more in my time zone and I suppose other off peakers would, too.  I would rather have people with similar time zones cluster and have active RP together than have one sitting in Red Storm, one in Allanak, one in a tribe and two in Tuluk (all bored out of their mind and wondering where the other players are). High activity and 'stuff happening' draws more players and keeps them active. Spreading them out all over the game world because nobody knows who is active for their playtimes does not help.

tl;dr? I couldn't disagree more.

[Night Queen]

Why do you need to know before creating a character if a leader might be the wrong timezone though, it's because there's often only one leader - that should be solved by having two leaders in most, so the game isn't focused on only one timezone, and more off-peak staff to keep the pressure on filling up those dead zones (it looks like staff have been trying to do this with recruitment lately) - going the other way just seems like trying to avoid it and making it worse instead of trying to fix it - clans shouldn't be islands that mostly interact with thesmelves (a soldier that is never on patrol isn't really RPing a soldier, it's just an acoholics anonymous meeting for people that like dressing in soldier uniforms), because the inter stuff is what fuels plots and makes stuff happen, especially for those people from the game complaints thread that are saying they are starved on seeing stuff happening or that the public areas seem dead etc.

[Nao]

It's not solved by having two leaders. Even if both of them play 4 hours a day at different times (most leaders don't play that much), that leaves gaping holes.

There is also a lack of interest in leadership roles (see that other thread), so I don't think it's currently possible to hire two leaders for each and every role.

Nobody said clans should be islands and only interact within the clan - I'm not sure where that is coming from. But being in a clan alone sucks, period. It makes people store and try again somewhere else or just stop playing altogether.

[ShaLeah]

I'm uneasy about letting other players know who you are currently playing, which would be apparent if you post under your popular GDB handle.

I'm also uneasy about letting other players know what your typical playtimes are, if they are planning harm to your character.


However, I think it would be better to the game as a whole to share this information, so new characters can jump into the game and start to their own plots knowing who the major pieces are.

I feel the same. This makes me nervous but I see the good in it.

Ditto - I think I have like ... 8 alts on the GDB all made to hide who I am playing.

[Barsook]

I think the downside of this is not so much people knowing who you play (for instance, I have a clan-specific account), but in players knowing who's in and around the other areas of the world. It may be hard to send minions to go find out who's leading so and so clan when you just kinda know that there's a southern templar named Gormenmorgen.

Agreed. Honestly, maybe it should only be like.. Byn and GMHs. Would definitely take away a lot from espionage plots between the two cities to just have all the nobles, templars and militia sergeants up there. They are kind of 'next level' clans anyway, and if you want to work for a noble/templar, being able to find out who the nobles are is probably the the easiest of the challenges (and, like I said on the new player thread.. that journey is part of the roleplay).

+1 on only GHM's/Byn only.

[Aruven]

I'm making an alternate GDB for these posts if it ever happens, that handles most of my concerns.

[Malken]

Ditto - I think I have like ... 8 alts on the GDB all made to hide who I am playing.

Am I one of them?

[Jihelu]

Whoever I'm the alt account of: Why have you made me, existence is pain.

[Nao]

I think the downside of this is not so much people knowing who you play (for instance, I have a clan-specific account), but in players knowing who's in and around the other areas of the world. It may be hard to send minions to go find out who's leading so and so clan when you just kinda know that there's a southern templar named Gormenmorgen.

Agreed. Honestly, maybe it should only be like.. Byn and GMHs. Would definitely take away a lot from espionage plots between the two cities to just have all the nobles, templars and militia sergeants up there. They are kind of 'next level' clans anyway, and if you want to work for a noble/templar, being able to find out who the nobles are is probably the the easiest of the challenges (and, like I said on the new player thread.. that journey is part of the roleplay).

+1 on only GHM's/Byn only.

Players could leave out name and sdesc and just post 'Allanak templar' or 'Lady Rennik' and playtimes. I don't care who you are, I just want to know when there is a chance to find you.

[Barsook]

Fair, Nao, and I really wouldn't mind that too.

I'm looking at you, a certain merchant.

[Saiseiki]

Given this -

Halaster: "It is the clan we most recommend to beginners.  Is it a true "newbie clan"?  No, but it is the closest thing we have.  We very commonly refer new players to join the Byn."

And this -

Aromit: "It's by new means the only way to start your journey in Armageddon (I did not make use of the Byn until roughly a year into my play). However it makes for a good clan to join because it is often the most populated clan in the game across many time zones, the general function of the clan teaches players a large spread of features in Armageddon that may not be so commonplace in other clans. Often a tour in the byn teaches a player things like combat and combat skills and reasonable practices, mounts, riding, healing, crafting, stable masters, cooks, equipment and how to use it, social hierarchy and inteclan interactions with the opportunity to usually have someone about to roleplay with in some capacity.

This is generally why its recommended in my personal view."

I think it's then fair to at least have up the current T'zai Byn leadership up somewhere easily viewable.  I've tried to get something like a dozen different friends to play this game, and after "There's too much to learn!" as a reason none of them have stuck with it, the second most common piece of feedback is "I have no idea how to get my foot in the door." 

The other clans have some real pros and cons to them.  On balance, I'd probably be behind having some variation a of staff-moderated/generated listing available, but don't think that's as important as having the Byn known.  Frankly, I doubt most new players are going to know what the heck a "Kadius" even is, for example.  It's easy to forget how utterly opaque this dense, gorgeous, crazy-deep-history setting can be if you haven't been playing for years.  I still feel like I've barely scratched the surface.

[Evilone]

To the OP, yes please, because unless you've played offpeak you don't understand how troublesome it can be to find other players and this idea be a big help. For those worried about it as leaders, just dont post as you aren't being forced too, or those who don't want to see such info, simply dont look at the thread.