Re: Leadership

[Gentleboy]

1. Byn:

The Byn. A great clan when it's good. However, playing in the clan for 2+ ig years, it gets redundant. If I am a Trooper, I would like to go outside the walls. It was changed in recent times with my Sergeants that that was no longer allowed. I've played First Trooper, was fun, till I needed answers from my Sergeants who were unable to think on their feet. But that's an issue with all clans. We're not really leaders. We do no have any power. Someone else has the power and we need to play by their rules. I would not App to be a Byn Sergeant. IF I rose to get it, I rise to get it. And I'd make it interesting. However, I usually leave the clan before that happens due to the tight schedule even after graduating from Runner.


2. GMH's (or are they each different enough from one another):

I would do this again, but, again, the issue is false power and a lack of plots that would interest my character. A lot of plots are make money. The end. I would love a goal that I can choose from a few options and goals that are not just "learn names, get a crew, silt sea." We are creative writers, let's think outside the box.


3. City elves

The issue here is: I have a very high standard of elf RP. And it is usually not met by those who play elves with me. Yes, call me foo-foo. Call me stuck-up. But elves should be RP'd a certain way and have a trait besides "thief". They also do not matter. At all. They will never matter. No plot will be on the back of some city elves (in allanak. I dunno Tuluk). When they rock, they rock. But, elves need to generate their own plot and be shit on and pushed down by every other clan in the game. They can rise, but not far. So, they get to the top of their own elf circle and then.. what? We steal? We show the militia what's up? What's new. What's exciting? Why must we only play the same story over and over?

4. Desert elves

I love desert elves. But again, I am picky with those I RP with. I will not put the effort and time that I usually put on a human who just runs well now. You know? You gotta have that elf mentality. So, if I see who the players are in game and I don't like the vibe? You ain't gonna see me none bit.

5. Militia roles (both Allanak and Tuluk)

I love military themes, but, I think we need a strict military-esque force. I would love to see a drill sergeant, someone who wants the best of their soldiers. But, most of the time, the Sergeant is barely online and I need to tell them what's going on instead of vice-versa. Also, the fake power. The people who join the military, of their own will. Are either crooked as a hanger or devout. If we had a draft for NPCS and occasional PCs, that would be interesting. "I'm doing my time, the pay is good. I'm thankful to be a citizen and happy to have the skills" Blah blah. Or even make PCS resentful I dunno. Just an idea.

6. Noble Houses

When I played my noble. I was only 1 month into playing Arm. Ever. I was lost, scared, and my staff went AWOL. I longed for interaction with players, but didn't understand how to get it. This role really takes trial and error. I think people are afraid to fail, but it's okay to fail. I would try this again, for sure! I know what I want from this game now.

7. Other

Fake power. That's the thing that makes me roll my eyes. I'm told I am IN CHARGE. But, I'm not. And I never will be.

[X-D]

7. Other

Fake power. That's the thing that makes me roll my eyes. I'm told I am IN CHARGE. But, I'm not. And I never will be.

I am backing this. Because it is an issue. I have had exactly 1 PC leader where it did not appear to be fake power, But that was only because RF docs allowed trial by combat. (very gith like, ruled). Howls could be challenged by anybody in the tribe. Real power. He was only challenged once BTW. And yet another reason the entire idea of GMH family should be retconned.

[Derain]

1. Byn:

The Byn. A great clan when it's good. However, playing in the clan for 2+ ig years, it gets redundant. If I am a Trooper, I would like to go outside the walls. It was changed in recent times with my Sergeants that that was no longer allowed. I've played First Trooper, was fun, till I needed answers from my Sergeants who were unable to think on their feet. But that's an issue with all clans. We're not really leaders. We do no have any power. Someone else has the power and we need to play by their rules. I would not App to be a Byn Sergeant. IF I rose to get it, I rise to get it. And I'd make it interesting. However, I usually leave the clan before that happens due to the tight schedule even after graduating from Runner.


2. GMH's (or are they each different enough from one another):

I would do this again, but, again, the issue is false power and a lack of plots that would interest my character. A lot of plots are make money. The end. I would love a goal that I can choose from a few options and goals that are not just "learn names, get a crew, silt sea." We are creative writers, let's think outside the box.


3. City elves

The issue here is: I have a very high standard of elf RP. And it is usually not met by those who play elves with me. Yes, call me foo-foo. Call me stuck-up. But elves should be RP'd a certain way and have a trait besides "thief". They also do not matter. At all. They will never matter. No plot will be on the back of some city elves (in allanak. I dunno Tuluk). When they rock, they rock. But, elves need to generate their own plot and be shit on and pushed down by every other clan in the game. They can rise, but not far. So, they get to the top of their own elf circle and then.. what? We steal? We show the militia what's up? What's new. What's exciting? Why must we only play the same story over and over?

4. Desert elves

I love desert elves. But again, I am picky with those I RP with. I will not put the effort and time that I usually put on a human who just runs well now. You know? You gotta have that elf mentality. So, if I see who the players are in game and I don't like the vibe? You ain't gonna see me none bit.

5. Militia roles (both Allanak and Tuluk)

I love military themes, but, I think we need a strict military-esque force. I would love to see a drill sergeant, someone who wants the best of their soldiers. But, most of the time, the Sergeant is barely online and I need to tell them what's going on instead of vice-versa. Also, the fake power. The people who join the military, of their own will. Are either crooked as a hanger or devout. If we had a draft for NPCS and occasional PCs, that would be interesting. "I'm doing my time, the pay is good. I'm thankful to be a citizen and happy to have the skills" Blah blah. Or even make PCS resentful I dunno. Just an idea.

6. Noble Houses

When I played my noble. I was only 1 month into playing Arm. Ever. I was lost, scared, and my staff went AWOL. I longed for interaction with players, but didn't understand how to get it. This role really takes trial and error. I think people are afraid to fail, but it's okay to fail. I would try this again, for sure! I know what I want from this game now.

7. Other

Fake power. That's the thing that makes me roll my eyes. I'm told I am IN CHARGE. But, I'm not. And I never will be.

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

[Gentleboy]

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

Don't give up! There is a new wave of excited and invigorating players! I promise you!

I know you need to make your own plots and be brave sometimes, but, there are limitations to what you can do when staff/vnpc/npc leaders say "no." Or "You can't have a grudge".

[Derain]

Many times I've said fuck it and went against VNPCS and assassinated rivals etc when told no, usually you get slapped but staff haven't ever killed me for it.

[HavokBlue]

Disclaimer: I'm only recently returned to the game after taking a break for a couple years.

Onwards...

I play a lot of leader PCs. I enjoy the social and political challenges these roles offer and derive most of my enjoyment from the opportunity to create fun experiences for other players. In my professional life, I often fall back on the quote "Leadership is the practice of helping other succeed" and it's something I try to apply to Armageddon as well, with the definition of "succeed" in this case being to have a fulfilling and engaging experience with Armageddon.

Some of those PCs, I've felt things worked out better than others.

1. Byn - I have played more than one Byn Sergeant, once as a very new player and once as a much more experienced player. I found that I never had difficulty recruiting folks, and honestly got really tired of pretending like the initiation interview mattered. I would usually find a trooper to handle the introductory schtick unless it was obviously a new player joining, because it just got time-consuming and repetitive. Of all leadership roles, this is the one where I personally felt like I had the least agency as a leader because the Byn has a fairly defined role in the game, but I do not think this is a bad thing. Different players like different leadership roles and plenty of players seem to enjoy the Byn sergeant role, usually.

2. GMH's (or are they each different enough from one another) - I have played more than one GMH family member, both in the same clan. I did not get to devote as much time as I'd have liked to the second one, due to IRL circumstances, but very much enjoyed the first one. I did not have difficulty with recruiting, and having other leaders in the clan covering other aspects of the work made it more manageable altogether. I felt like I had a lot of agency in the role, and staff supported my PC's efforts to pursue interests beyond just crafting and selling weapons and armor. Sometimes, players would grow irritated if I was unable to procure items they wished to order as quickly as they wished to possess them, but I usually just ignored those PCs for as long as they were being OOC unreasonable and went about my business. I think what you get out of this role will vary tremendously with your ability and willingness to think outside the box for unconventional plots that would still make sense and involve other players, as well as the interests and focus of your assigned staff.


3. City elves - City elves hold a special place in my heart. My first PC was a Rinthi elf and it's a role I like to revisit between longer lived characters. I have no issues with the weaknesses of city elves in the wilderness, but I also say this as someone who is content playing a noble who can almost never leave the city. With the exception of the Akai'Sjir prior to Tuluk's closure, I have seen very few city elves in leadership positions, partly owing to the low number of clans that allow city elves. My understanding is there are now multiple clans open which allow city elves to take on leadership roles, but I do not have any experience playing in either and can't comment.

4. Desert elves - I have played multiple Soh Lanah Kah leadership PCs (no sponsored), and PCs in other tribes that did not have the sustained player count to -need- leader PCs. SLK had unique documentation in that leadership by PCs was organic and based around rallying the support of other PCs. This was a great system for game play and it would work well if implemented into other parts of the setting in the future where appropriate, IMO. These roles don't recruit from the outside and I don't really have issues with how they play in-game.

5. Militia roles (both Allanak and Tuluk) - no relevant experience

6. Noble Houses - I've played a handful of nobles. This is where I've had the hardest time as a leader to other PCs. I've found it very difficult to recruit PCs who live long enough to matter. As a practice, I try to give new players equal consideration and pass along the IC lessons that will help them survive. I had the opportunity for my earliest PCs to learn from some exceptional leaders like Worms, Raissa, and Thuler and I've tried to remember what made that experience so great when encountering new players. At the same time, they die. A lot. Very frequently. Trying to recruit other PCs can be equally tricky, as experienced players often create new characters with the intention of joining a specific clan.

7. Other - I've played multiple leadership PCs in criminal clans, and these were by far the hardest to run effectively. Extremely high attrition rate and documentation considerations make recruitment difficult. This is a high-risk high-challenge role that I still very much feel like I'm in the process of learning every time I try it.

[Krath]

7. Other

Fake power. That's the thing that makes me roll my eyes. I'm told I am IN CHARGE. But, I'm not. And I never will be.

This...THis....THIs...THIS!!!!

[HavokBlue]

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

Many times I've said fuck it and went against VNPCS and assassinated rivals etc when told no, usually you get slapped but staff haven't ever killed me for it.

I can't imagine why a staff member might not trust you if you regularly disregard virtual aspects of the gameworld.

[Narf]

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

Many times I've said fuck it and went against VNPCS and assassinated rivals etc when told no, usually you get slapped but staff haven't ever killed me for it.

I can't imagine why a staff member might not trust you if you regularly disregard virtual aspects of the gameworld.

Diobeying isn't quite the same as disregarding.

Disregarding is more "pretending they're not there" What he did was acknowledge they were there, then acted anyways and accepted the consequences.

[Jihelu]

There's also an innate issue with power in that:

If I'm in a clan and I can't do something 'because so and so doesn't want me to' and my idea is 'Ok I'll kill them', you begin the plan of: Kill someone who is being used as the OOC reason you can't do something.

There's...a few reasons why this might not go well.

[Tranquil]

My point is less of a point and more of a good example, but regardless, the best leader experience I've had was in the Garrison. (also i'm a rule-breaker and I'm not gonna obey the prompt)

Whilst I'm not going into any details on who my character was or what they did, as I'm not too sure when or if I'm able to talk about them yet, I will say that the reason why it was so great was because Captain's in the Garrison had almost complete control over nearly every aspect of their part of the Garrison. They weren't Commanders, but they were high enough on the totem that they could make decisions and their superior wouldn't step down from their gilded offices to yell at you for them.

It allowed for extreme versatility and free reign over not only the Garrison, but the Outpost. I felt like I was actually in control of something with true power, and the fact that I only had to play off other characters instead of rules from above meant that the leader experience felt real and truly political, what, with the Council and all the other vying groups around Luir's. My storyteller and admin at the time was also very nice, awesome and allowed me to do pretty much whatever I wanted with the clan, which allowed my character to make their own customs and rules and traditions for the unit. He was even given near complete freedom over the clan's bank account from the get-go of the role. Alot of trust was granted from staff, and it allowed me to really get into the character's leadership and enjoy it the whole time through. EDIT: I would also like to mention that the staff over me were very supportive with their staffing and also very attentive throughout the way, even though they had to gently shut down a couple of the more insane plans that character had in retrospect.

Losses that were had IC were losses that my character had to actually deal with and account for IC with other characters, instead of being told that he should feel bad by someone he meets once a year. Though it was hard at times, especially with the amount of sacrifice you have to give to make sure that your underlings have things to do and are having fun before you yourself can be considered, it was all worth it in the end - and it was (I believe) the only leader that I didn't end up storing.

When players have true power over their stomping grounds and their underlings, is when you can derive alot of enjoyment from a leader role. It allows you to feel like an actual leader and go-getter, instead of a lackey for your NPC boss.

[Derain]

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

Many times I've said fuck it and went against VNPCS and assassinated rivals etc when told no, usually you get slapped but staff haven't ever killed me for it.

I can't imagine why a staff member might not trust you if you regularly disregard virtual aspects of the gameworld.

oh so it's totally unrealistic to go against another member of the house who tells you to support a Templar from the gate and fuck another Pc Templar just because the staffer was playing the previous noble of your house and animating their old PC (this is what it felt like was happening for sure). that's the facts of my comment [edited out by Usiku].

*Edited out direct insult - please refrain from using abusive language toward other players - thanks! Keep it civil.

[Derain]

Fake power? power is what you make of it, you can be powerful if you play your cards right in my experience.. I'd love a chance to play a Noble again or a Templar once but staff don't trust me enough even though I've worked hard to work with them on how I play and interact and follow rules.

I feel like my time here has been done awhile and I just keep trying to find the love I once had for Arm.

Many times I've said fuck it and went against VNPCS and assassinated rivals etc when told no, usually you get slapped but staff haven't ever killed me for it.

I can't imagine why a staff member might not trust you if you regularly disregard virtual aspects of the gameworld.

Diobeying isn't quite the same as disregarding.

Disregarding is more "pretending they're not there" What he did was acknowledge they were there, then acted anyways and accepted the consequences.

.

Thanks Narf this is what I was trying to get across.

[zeia]

The Byn -  Let them do whatever contracts they are asked for, even if it as mundane as spider hunting, or raptor hunting for someone, if it's coins, surely a merc group would be like, yeah sure, let's go!  As someone else stated above, it has become rather 'merchant house escorting serving'.  And to add on to this point, if there are not enough player numbers to take on the escort, could staff not allow some npc's to be hitched with the sergeant to go on the ride along to make up the numbers?  But ONLY if there are less than say 3 others to go on the journey with?  This would not only help the Byn out, and make it more desirable to play, (because, who wants to just sit in a compound having contract after contract cancelled?), but also mean that RPT's such as wagon escorting (which would also help the GMH's house A LOT), would not be able to be cancelled, and wouldn't mess everyones days up.

GMH's - I do not blame people not wanting to play these anymore. 'Power' players, of a RICH family, are expected to have their own space, away from their estates, away from their families, and then it is wondered why they were killed?  What is the point of having an Estate, and giving them a key to said Estate, if they are not allowed their own room?  Little perks such as this, really make the roles flair up a bit to people, makes them feel less like trundled around vending machines and more like they are actually a family member.  Not a MASSIVE room, but a small room that is their own, would make the world of difference.  A place to chill out, have little odds and ends, instead of cramming them in to a locker, and the only privacy they would be allowed, is a deathtrap apartment.
They are leaders, yet they are not.  Which I totally understand, staff do not want people to go awol, but, I do think that this is why GMH's in particular are not so fruitful as they once were.
With the movement of their wagons to help them get around the Known, this needs help, perhaps in the way I suggest with the Byn?  Or, if in dire need, perhaps staff could OCCASIONALLY move them, and say that a virtual Byn group helped them get to wherever. 

Both city and desert elves I cannot really speak much towards, other than playing something that is not human, tends to take a rather large racial smack which lowers your play space within interactions. Tribes are also hard for some people to play in, as, other people just do not understand the tribe mentality and go off and do their own thing.  Playing with these kinds of people, entirely kills the role for me, personally.

Militia roles - I have not played in these a whole lot, but, it is likely, from what I have seen, a sort of simliar position that the Byn are in.


I think a system for rolecalls would be a wise idea, so, people wouldn't really waste their time applying for them, nor staff rejecting them.
There is honestly nothing more disheartening than putting in for a specific role again and again and getting rejected, every time it comes around, that, in the end, people just will not wish to try again.  Been there, done that.
So for example, I would suggest some kind of point system, akin to karma, of 'staff trust' on roles. 
So 1 point could be, we would accept you for a Byn/Legions/Sergeant.
2 points could be we would accept you for a GMH leader/Raider Leader/Mystery role.
3 points, we could accept you as a noble. 
4 points we could accept you for a templar. 
So somewhere in your calls, you could be like, we are offering this role to people of x amount of points for role calls.

[Spider]

About this time last year I played Sergeant "Doc" Gitano of the Allanak Militia.

I made the character back in 2018 and he joined the Jade Sabers shortly after chargen.  Unfortunately,  real life took me away from the game for quite a while, and I stopped logging onto him shortly there after.  In 2020 I got the Arm itch back, along with a more stable real life schedule, and loaded the game back up.  I decided just to go ahead and keep playing the character, and I am glad I did.  He then joined a different unit as a recruit, since the Jade Sabers are now purely virtual.  Shortly after that, our lovely storytellers at the time came up with a great plot idea where Doc goes on to a special mission outside of Allanak.  He moved to Red Storm, found a way to join the Crimson Wind, and worked to accomplish the mission.

Before he could finish his mission, after years out in the field, the higher ups in the unit called him back to Allanak to take over the unit as Sergeant.  Being loyal to this particular higher up, he obliged.

The transition from playing a free roaming, silt sea sailing, spice maniac to Sergeant in the Militia gave me a lot of perspective on what makes a leader PC in the militia an at times undesirable role.

The mandate of the militia does not fit well with the actual day to day of the practical game.  To be more specific,  the militia primarily work to uphold the laws the city.  Unfortunately,  laws aren't broken that often, and you are stuck combat emoting in the sparring ring.  Certainly this can be fun, and helpful in building up one's emoting skills, but once you are doing it for the third day in a row it gets incredibly stale.

The Sergeant in this generally stale play experience also has to deal with a load of administrative stuff with the unit, like recruiting.  As a result, the role becomes 95% tedium, and 5% action.  You end up playing the role of training and building a unit to do battle for the battle that never comes.

To me though, there is nothing wrong with the foundations of the clan and its leadership roles , or the world that they reside in, rather in how the game actually plays out.  I'll mention two things that contribute to this.  First, the city streets are crawling with loads of militia npcs.  There is hardly a need for a PC militia when many mugging, robbery, or failed smuggling attempts find quick resolution with an NPC stomping in the suspects head, and/or dragging them off to the jail.  Mugging, robbery, and smuggling attempts then reduce, as the cost of failure gets too high.  Second, for the most part,  PCs play the game rather gently.  We don't see PC groups of muggers roaming the street slapping around a helpless passerby, spice dealers hawking their wares in an out of the way corner, gang rivalries that lead to blood shed, etc. 

The city is incredibly safe and law abiding in all practicality, which makes the militia lack a bit of purpose.

Personally, I'd like to see us all do a lot more battle on the streets with whatever role we are playing in.  If such was the case, I'd think the militia could be  more fun.  My favorite characters have always been the ones that barely survive.  It's not only just fun to play out, mechanically, but also contributes far more to fleshing out a character than what we could possibly think up in the abstract.

In response to the OP, for me personally with respect to the Militia leadership role, I'd like a more brutal world in the real sense not just lore sense, facilitated by how we as players play the game, and a reduction in NPC law enforcement.  Perhaps there is something with the simraider stuff Staff have been working on, should they implement some version of it in the city.

The above is a little ad hoc, so apologies there.

edited to add:  I have in my mind a fantasy scenario.  There is a group of 5 pcs who sling spice in the city having a good night in the Gaj.  The Militia sergeant hears about it and gathers the unit to confront them.  At the Gaj, the dope slingers and the Militia get into it, live fighting, people fleeing the fight, bystanders watching, and NO half-giant soldier comes in to interfere.  All that is left after the fight are the bodies of the slain, and the stories the survivors and onlookers could tell.

[HavokBlue]

Hope this isn't too off topic for the thread but because I've seen some folks share their disappointment with not being able to land a sponsored role they've been excited about:

Something that I feel has helped me with scoring some of my favorite sponsored roles has been to go into the application with a really strong concept. Unless it's incredibly relevant to how I intend to play the character, I don't focus on an elaborate or compelling backstory or the minutiae of what class I might be, etc.

I focus on what I imagine playing the character to be like, and the kind of goals I would like to pursue for that clan and the people that interact with it. I discuss the ways I think my concept will enrich the experiences of other players, the sort of obstacles I think I might encounter, and the ways I anticipate leaning on staff for support. If I believe a past character has parallels to the role in question, or would in any way prepare me to excel at the role I want, I discuss that as well, so that staffers who may not be as familiar with me have something concrete to reference.

I've found that not only does this improve my chances of earning that sponsored role, it gives me a framework to work with once I get in game. I know that from day one, I have at least passive approval for the kind of plots I'd like to pursue, or not. This is a huge factor in terms of getting invested in a leadership character, for me. I've know the frustration of feeling like all your ideas are shot down because I've been there - but I genuinely found that my experience both applying for and playing leadership characters improved dramatically when I found the maturity to stop treating my staffers like obstacles or competitors to my goals.

Approaching it from the perspective of someone seeking to collaborate on the process of creating fun for other players pays dividends, because to a clan storyteller, that's what your job as a player means for them. I also had to learn to be okay with losing - sometimes my characters failed, sometimes they failed a lot. Not every story is a happy ending and not every wild scheme is successful.

I think if you can cultivate that mindset in yourself as a roleplayer, and that relationship with staff as a player who will focus on creating collaborative experiences, it opens more doors when you come at your ST or admin with more out-there plot ideas.

I know someone is gonna read this and screenshot it for their discord buddies to laugh about HavokBlue being a kiss-ass or something, but I'm just trying to share what led me to a more enjoyable Armageddon experience. Prior to taking a break for a couple years, I was only ever a 3-karma player (pre-karma squish) playing since 2010, and have never to this day touched the really wild roles like sorcerer, psion, templar, or even the higher-tier magickers.

[Derain]

Hope this isn't too off topic for the thread but because I've seen some folks share their disappointment with not being able to land a sponsored role they've been excited about:

Something that I feel has helped me with scoring some of my favorite sponsored roles has been to go into the application with a really strong concept. Unless it's incredibly relevant to how I intend to play the character, I don't focus on an elaborate or compelling backstory or the minutiae of what class I might be, etc.

I focus on what I imagine playing the character to be like, and the kind of goals I would like to pursue for that clan and the people that interact with it. I discuss the ways I think my concept will enrich the experiences of other players, the sort of obstacles I think I might encounter, and the ways I anticipate leaning on staff for support. If I believe a past character has parallels to the role in question, or would in any way prepare me to excel at the role I want, I discuss that as well, so that staffers who may not be as familiar with me have something concrete to reference.

I've found that not only does this improve my chances of earning that sponsored role, it gives me a framework to work with once I get in game. I know that from day one, I have at least passive approval for the kind of plots I'd like to pursue, or not. This is a huge factor in terms of getting invested in a leadership character, for me. I've know the frustration of feeling like all your ideas are shot down because I've been there - but I genuinely found that my experience both applying for and playing leadership characters improved dramatically when I found the maturity to stop treating my staffers like obstacles or competitors to my goals.

Approaching it from the perspective of someone seeking to collaborate on the process of creating fun for other players pays dividends, because to a clan storyteller, that's what your job as a player means for them. I also had to learn to be okay with losing - sometimes my characters failed, sometimes they failed a lot. Not every story is a happy ending and not every wild scheme is successful.

I think if you can cultivate that mindset in yourself as a roleplayer, and that relationship with staff as a player who will focus on creating collaborative experiences, it opens more doors when you come at your ST or admin with more out-there plot ideas.

I know someone is gonna read this and screenshot it for their discord buddies to laugh about HavokBlue being a kiss-ass or something, but I'm just trying to share what led me to a more enjoyable Armageddon experience. Prior to taking a break for a couple years, I was only ever a 3-karma player (pre-karma squish) playing since 2010, and have never to this day touched the really wild roles like sorcerer, psion, templar, or even the higher-tier magickers.

This is a solid post by you Havoc, I've taken this approach and I get selected for a lot of sponsored roles in the recent years, just not THE one which I don't know if I'll ever get a chance but it's from now on going to be the only role I apply for.

[Hestia]

I'm just chiming in here for a moment to thank y'all for some really great insight and perspective.  That is all - carry on.

[X-D]

Havokblue: I really do not think that most the players think in a manner where they are going to laugh at you.

I held on to a PC ONLY because getting rid of him meant the end of that clan/tribe. So I played Howls/lash/slinks well past where I normally would have just because of other players. And I bet that is the case with many people playing leader PCs. I did so with Kon as well (ED sarge).

Leader is a tough role...Those that stick with them deserve kudos...and most players agree on that point. Even staff does...though they say it even less.

[ShaLeah]

em sighing,  @ rolls ^@ eyes and rolls the cuffs on ~nightgown upwards towards ^@ elbows.
em spits air dramatically on the palms ^@ hands and proceeds to rub them emphatically back and forth.
em with a bone-creaking twist of wrist and a wiggle of arthritic fingers, @ reaches into ~robe
get coins robe
put coins thread


1. Byn - No XP
2. GMH's - I've held leadership roles in a few GMHs. IMO taking away their autonomy has been detrimental to the game.  Bring back the hunters, the guards,  the secret positions ahem. The Luirs change ruined Kurac which was one of the coolest and largest player clans of all time.  They always had things to do and an ever present leadership. STOP having multiple PC leaders. More on that later.
3. City elves - gross
4. Desert elves - These are so easy - you're just existing,  frolicking in nature,  thinking you're better than everyone else.  Hating non elves. Iso, sure, but you don't NEED anyone else. 
5. Militia roles (both Allanak and Tuluk) - No XP - I equate them to noble houses though.
6. Noble Houses- One leadership challenge here is in not being able to do what you COULD do cause you're ICly poor as fuck at first and you never ever get Independent filthy rich. Another is interhouse needless player rivalry - stop having more than one PC boss - let the conflict between PCs be in other houses. Interclan drama can be with staff/house elders you have to bump off to get promoted. Not only does it deplete the already thin player base but it gets ooc on soooo many levels. Staff poking at you though?  I still hate that asshole city Templar that stole my Trader's Inn to make into that eye sore temple there now.  I liked the annoyance of my chick not getting what she wanted. 

Seriously,  these roles are harder without sid. What's your noble dream? Good luck with that.  Staff support and approachability is PARAMOUNT.  Like don't accept my concept then don't fucking support me.  That leads to resentment.
7. Other - Tribals - I think of tribals and delves in the same way.. Armageddon hippies, commune dwellers, cults,  tree-hugging naturists. Within the clan these elders should teach wisdom,  their political involvements should be minimal,  with other tribes and tradesfolk. The chillaxation of just existing without having to manage society make these leadership roles do much easier I think.

In summary, I think:

1. Shared vision and support of your staff to assist in making your goals happen is key, that's not saying just a one way ticket to Yesville, throw some wrenches in the gears but please,  don't kill progress purposefully.
My last leadership role I was ASKED to apply by the head staffer twice, my concept was approved and then they dicked me.
2. Keep interclan discord between PC and clan leader npcs. No to multiple PC leaders in the same clan.
3. Noobles need mo money.  Broke ass mfers.
4. Bring back GMH hunters and guards.
5. Keep your staff in check.  Favoritism or personal dislike is 100% obvious.  They're human. It makes leadership under them hard.  Work on that ooc trust and communication. If you hire the antagonist leader, let them antagonize, the builder,  let them build,  the explorer,  let them explore.  You can still murder corrupt and betray without micromanaging your leaders.

I know I joke around when certain roles come up but I wouldn't take another one under any staff if they paid me.  It really needs an overhaul.

[X-D]

You know...I think it would be cool if there was a spot on GDB for public staff kudos to leader PCs after a year of them no longer being in game.

Oh sure, you will have the people yelling brown nose or pet and all that. But screw them. Being recognized is a good thing.