Excelmation points and their usage

[tortall]

Did anyone ever watch School House Rock at all? In one of their songs they say something along the lines of exclmation points show strong emotion. Usually excitement. It does -not- mean that they're being loud. Yes, people do tend to get a bit louder when they're excided. That does not mean you have to wince every time someone in the room uses an excelmation point.

It is a big pet peeve of mine, as my chars tend to get excited easly. PLEASE guys, people don't wince that often. The bar/tavern is always noisy, and you're unlikly to hear them over the rest of the roar of the crowed. Deal!


-Tortall, who is a bit pissed at the moment.

[Bestatte]

I guess it depends on who's doing the exclaiming, and where exactly the people are situated.

A halfling exclaiming in the middle of a sandstorm is likely to not be heard much more than a strange squeak.

A half-giant standing a few feet from you in the middle of a bar might blow your eardrums off if he continuously exclaimed, unless he emoted that he wasn't facing you or talking in your direction.

A mantis exclaiming on the street, to no one in particular, might only be heard as a high-pitched hiss.

A human exclaiming to another human in a crowded tavern might be heard above the din, but probably not to the point of annoyance.

So like I say, it depends on who's doing the exclaiming, and where that person is in comparison to the people reacting to it.

[tortall]

Half-Giants are not always loud.
And I'm sorry, but you don't need to emote facing away from someone to let them know you're not talking to them. It's kinda a given. :-p



-Tortall

[Ueda]

Well a problem I see with not being able to hear you is -- the listen skill but thats a hole nother subject and I don't feel like typing to much, but what I will say is I think this skill, gives the wrong impression, I've already said I'd like it to be refined. Tha's my 2 'sid.

[mansa]

And I'm sorry, but you don't need to emote facing away from someone to let them know you're not talking to them.

I'm going to disagree.   I -don't- know anything of what you're doing, unless you -show- me.  I don't know if you've noticed me in the tavern, unless you emote looking in my direction, or if you use the look command.
I'm going to ASSUME that you've not spotted me, unless you show me that you do.  I'm going to ASSUME you're listening intently to my every word, unless you show me that you're not, but looking elsewhere, or by talking to someone else.

Emote MORE, not LESS!

[tortall]

~shakes her head~ Mansa, if you're going to assume that everyone, including people you don't even LOOK at you, are listening to your ever word, then you are FAR too pompus. Also, there is a limit to how much you shoudl emote I think. I don't want people emoting ever time they twich. I don't want to see an emote about how they chew their food. I'm sorry, but I just see that as overkill. If I'm talking to you, I will emote that I turn to you and start talking. Infact, I might evne use the tell command! Oh, what a revelation! I'm OBVIOUSLY talking to you. If I used the say command, I am likly eather talking to myself, or no one.


My point of this thred was to tell people that using excelmation points does NOT mean that person is yelling.


-Tortall, who looks pointly at mansa.

[Carnage]

Also, there is a limit to how much you shoudl emote I think

Uh-huh. Put a limit on how much people can creatively write and emote.

Fucking brilliant.

[tortall]

~smirks~ I expected you to say no less Carnage. The screen was always moving by faster than I could read when your chars came into the room.


-Tortall, who never saw the point of writing out long lines of babble when you can say the same thing in 5 words.

[Anonymous]

I'm more annoyed with the timing of this. By posting what you posted, anyone who was present when it happened now knows exactly who you play and anyone who attempts to explain their viewpoint will reveal to you exactly who they play and I think it's poor form.

Go fishing somewhere else.

[tortall]

Actually, the last instance I have problems with people doing this was several days ago. I waited because I didn't want everyone to know who I played. If someone else happened to use lots of excelmation points at the time I was posting this, that's not my fault.


-Tortall

[Ueda]

Also, there is a limit to how much you shoudl emote I think

Uh-huh. Put a limit on how much people can creatively write and emote.

Fucking brilliant.

I can't even believe tortall said that, I agree that now one wants to see someone twitch 20 time in a IG hour but, telling other people where that limit is ... is simply not your place tortall

[Carnage]

-Tortall, who never saw the point of writing out long lines of babble when you can say the same thing in 5 words.

Uh, it's called elaboration and I'd much rather have a descriptive line than see half-assed posts. Example:

emote runs down the street.

emote Slowly backing away, @ suddenly turns away from ~soldier and bolts down the street, weaving in and out of a line of passing wagons.

OH THE AGONY OF THE LATTER! THE DETAIL, IT BURNS!

[Armaddict]

Okay.  While vast numbers of emotes can be annoying a room full of PC's, I rarely -see- anyone using vast numbers of emotes then.

When you're in a sparsely populated room, you're saying you want -less- activity going on?  My opinion differs (I'm not saying you're wrong).  I personally enjoy having people around who can always come up with something for their character to be doing that makes sense, or even better, using emote to show how the area is interacting with them.  Not only does it give -you- something to do while you're waiting for that fella to reply to you, but it also enhances the entire atmosphere.

And I'm curious...how did this get from you not liking to have people react as if you were yelling every time, to how you didn't like how often people emoted?

[Anonymous]

I think exclamations mean you aren't being subtle enough.

[Anonymous]

Actually, the last instance I have problems with people doing this was several days ago. I waited because I didn't want everyone to know who I played. If someone else happened to use lots of excelmation points at the time I was posting this, that's not my fault.


-Tortall

Wow. You really hold on to your anger then since your first post ended with "who is really pissed at the moment". Let it go dood. If youre still "really pissed at the moment" after something that happened a few days ago you should take a break.

[Socko]

Alright.

I'm a long emoter-- and that comment about shutting down longer emotes did strike me like a knife through the heart.

To me, the emotes are there for expression. You're trying to help -everyone- by adding atmosphere to the situations, stages, ect. You're helping the world come to life.

How is this bad? Really, can you come up with one way in which bringing the world that you RP in to life is a bother/bad thing? This is, of course, aside from blinking or twitching twenty times in a RL hour.

The point of the game is immersion. Lots of emotes that enlist the superfriends of sound effects, lighting, weather conditions, and smell/sight, ect. Are wholly unnecessary. But are they good? In -my- opinion, yes.

No one's telling you to make your emotes longer, Tortall. Don't imply to others that they, in turn, should make theirs shorter.

[mansa]

I think we all know it is POOR FORM TO USE ALL CAPS.  I think people wouldn't take that, into Armageddon, as 'Yelling'.  I think people assume that exclaiming is 'yelling'

[Anonymous]

mansa you cheating bastard, stop twinking out your emote skill, you already branched the eat skill from it.  JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(that wasn't a yell)

[Socko]

I hardly ever see exclaimations as yelling-- usually I just do a little of this:

The gollum-bodied gith twitches his head up in the air, screeching loudly, in duderish, "Mo' beer!"
 
Just make it look like you're screaming. Maybe even like a screeching mad gith.

[Northlander]

Well.. There's the 'shout' command.

The emote discussion needs another thread so we can have less Tortall-bashing and instead discuss the exclamation mark. If there's a need to discuss it.

[Anonymous]

Language skills
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
sirihish                               duderish

>change language duderish
>say That's what you think.
The portly, middle-aged man says, in duderish "Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, man."

[Armaddict]

Woowoo!  Another big Lebowski Fan!

[Anonymous]

well lets put it this way.

Im talking to someone in the middle of a bar. You else come into the room. Its crowded not just virtually but also with a bunch of PCs too. The person who JUST walked in exclaims to the person youre talkign to -in the middle of the room-

So and so exclaims to the other guy, "Hey! I don't like this thing!"

The guy youre talking to actually goes thru the trouble of emoting that hes turning around, so the person exclaiming can see damned well that he was facing the other direction and you were loud enough to be heard all the way over from the entry. You make no motion of movement, no indication to anyone that you havent gotten any closer to him. You continue exclaiming things, and still no "emote approaches the other guy" or "takes a few more steps closer to the other guy" or "skips merrily into the middle of the room" or "does a somersault and a fucking half-gainer over the goddamned couch, landing smack dab in front of the other guy."

From where Im standing, youre being very loud, loud enough to be heard clear over the noise and even when the other guy turns to get closer to you, you don't stop being "excited." guess what? I'm gonna think it's grating on my ears and my nerves and I'm gonna react that way. If you don't like it, then um. Tough, I guess. Or maybe take the atmosphere of the place your in into consideration next time.

[Ueda]

Donny says "They peed on your rug dude?"

[Northlander]

The Lebowski-discussion needs another thread so we can have less incoherent quotes and instead discuss the exclamation mark!

[sacac]

Well... I don't know about you guys but I can excliam Holy shit! to myself..
but let's settle this. PEOPLE USE SHOUT!
Anyways... emote walking to the person unless the place is empty of npc, nvpcs, and pcs.
And there yu have it.

[crymerci]

The screen was always moving by faster than I could read when your chars came into the room.

-Tortall, who never saw the point of writing out long lines of babble when you can say the same thing in 5 words.

Ok, first of all, if the screen is really moving that fast due to one person, and assuming he doesn't type 200wpm or some other inhuman speed, then you either need to ignore him or improve your reading speed.  I've had a few times when there was too much going on in a tavern for me to keep up with, so I just ignored everything that was going on except what pertained to me, which is more realistic in a way anyhow.  And these things were never the result of one person anyway.  I think you're being overly dramatic.

I think it's always best to err on the side of more emoting rather than less, assuming that it doesn't overly slow down the speed of the conversation or interaction. If you don't want to read it, then choose to have your character not see it, and don't read it.  But maybe someone else wants to. Maybe it's even important to the ongoing story of the world.

And as far as the exclamation point, obviously exclaiming isn't the same as, say, shouting.  But it does imply a more excited, emphatic, and generally louder tone of voice.

[Anonymous]

The exclamation point (!) is the punctuation mark used to give the sort of emphasis to a word, phrase, or sentence that suggests loud, vigorous, forthright delivery.  

Above from Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–).  The Columbia Guide to Standard American English.  1993.

For those who pooh-pooh Standard American English - the exclamation mark is also known in the UK as a "bang" or a "shriek." That should be a pretty big clue.

[tortall]

Sheesh, calm down guys!!! I mean -I- think there's a limit on emotes. Not that there SHOULD be.

As for why I posted it now. Well, if I had posted it then people would have gotten onto me for posting it then. Now people are getting onto me because I'm still upset now? I'm not upset. I was upset at something ELSE. COMPLETLY unrelated to what I was talking about.

And mansa, I'm sorry, but I do see caps as yelling. If someone who uses caps anyways, even though they're not yelling, what's to say something, be my guest. But that's just plain bad grammer imo.


-Tortall, who just had to drive her dad to the damn book store.

[briktal]

Exactly!

...
...
...
I wasn't shouting that out.

[X-D]

Hhhhmm, Well, some pc's do speak loudly, almost all the time, I knew a near deaf dwarf that did, he either used ! or shout, and a lot of Half-giants have a vol control problem, that or the player feels that an HG talking is going to be loud to any non-halfgiant...as to long emotes, they are great, unless redundant or the person making them only types 40wpm, then it is just grating.

[creeper386]

Hmm... Well I'm thinking people are blowing Tortall's remarks way out of the water for the most part. One, she wasn't telling people they had to emote less, she said her preference. Also she was merely asking that people take exclamation points to not always mean yelling. Personally I'm for this.

And your telling her to take into account the enviroment. In a busy tavern even if your YELLING there is a good chance you won't be heard. You can just as easiely RP that they were drowned out because they are trying to call out acrossed the tavern as you can RP they have a miraculously loud voice that can carry through a crowd of rowdy drunks. Just alittle test get a friend, turn up your music LOUD and try to have a conversation just acrossed ten feet. Even yelling your likely to go unheard. Really it works both ways.

Just because someone is trying to talk to you doesn't mean you are forced to play that you heard it or anything.

Also, exclamation points don't always mean yelling. Don't even mean they are being louder. If you look up definition it's also used to show excitement, wonder, admirement ... It's a conveyance of emotion just as much as it is a conveyance of any loudness.

Not trying to point at anyone, but don't say someone wasn't paying attention to their surroundings when yourself, by your own words were being just as ignorant of what other things were going on but acting like you had no choice in hearing them. Not only is that letting something else completely control your character that isn't always IC... And it's forcing something on someone else. IE your forcing the idea that they were yelling when they weren't.

Creeper

[tortall]

Creeper, have I told you recently that I love you?


-Tortall, who loves creeper.

[creeper386]

The senile old man says, in sirihish, speaking quietly, "Wow!"

Can be used to display amazement..

The scrawny little kid says, in sirihish, his eyes opening widely as he looks at the the filthy magicker, "Hey! Whoah! Didn't see you there."

Surprise ... Not always needs to be loud. Can be alittle louder, but most likely more a change in tone unless stated to be loud.

The burly mercenary says, in sirihish, calling a few stools down the bar, "Hey sarge! Need a drink?"

Sure he's being loud enough to be heard, but the exlamation doesn't mean he's just HOLLERING AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE. It's more imphasizing sarge. He's not necessarily being any louder then anyone else, but he isn't speaking in a slow drool tone. It's more upbeat, sharp.

Since I already addressed everything else I feel I need to address, I figured I'd just toss in some examples. Exclamation points are for emphasizing mostly. Doesn't mean your loud. Doesn't mean your shouting. Can use an exlamation point, when speaking in alittle more then a mutter, properly.


Creeper

[Dan]

A little off topic but I think everyone needs to use more exclamation in battle emotes!

Right? Whos with me?

[Medena]

... It does -not- mean that they're being loud. Yes, people do tend to get a bit louder when they're excided. That does not mean you have to wince every time someone in the room uses an excelmation point.

It is a big pet peeve of mine, as my chars tend to get excited easly. PLEASE guys, people don't wince that often. The bar/tavern is always noisy, and you're unlikly to hear them over the rest of the roar of the crowed. Deal!

As someone who plays an excitable person in RL, I feel your pain. I once had a boss who winced practically every time I spoke and I -know- I wasn't always being loud nor was I always talking to her.

How does this relate to the game? Well, I figure that whether exclaiming actually means an increase in volume or not, it -does- denote high energy which will, of itself, draw people's attention. I think that if you are playing an excitable character you probably should expect to get noticed by other PC's and noticed in whatever way their players see fit.

-Medena

[tortall]

Oh, I completly agree. I play all my chars to get noticed, it's part of the fun. People tend to hate me since I'm usually the goofy one though.


-Tortall, who is insane.

[Delirium]

The problem arises when you don't take the time to emote out exactly what that exclamation point is meaning.

For example:

The bulbous-crotched mul exclaims, in sirihish:
"Son of a 'tok whore!"

The effeminate, dainty black-robed Templar exclaims, in sirhish:
"You there! You're the one!"

Alternately:

Hissing the words out through his teeth as he claps a meaty hand over the gash on his arm, the bulbous-crotched mul exclaims, in sirhish:
"Son of a 'tok whore!"

The effeminate, dainty black-robed templar levels a bony finger toward the hapless citizen before him.

His voice an enraged whisper, the effeminate, dainty black-robed Templar exclaims, in sirhihish:
"You there! You're the one!"


It is possible for exclamation points to reflect suprise or excitement or what-have-you, and not just volume of voice, but it is also difficult to discern that unless the player illustrates that very fact for the others who will be reading the say. Otherwise, yes, exclamation points naturally tend to suggest a louder tone of voice.

[Anonymous]

Delirium!  I think you are right!  Nice post!

[tortall]

I can agree with that. I'll admit I often don't put emoted into my talking. Hey, I'm lazy. :-D


-Tortall, who is lazy.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Delirium wrote:

The bulbous-crotched mul

Ha! That's hilarious...

D00d, I'm -so- special apping for a mul now, and I'm stealing that sdesc.

[Ueda]

I can agree with that. I'll admit I often don't put emoted into my talking. Hey, I'm lazy. :-D


-Tortall, who is lazy.

Then why was your post made out to be so mad when the PC's interpit what you do differently because you didn't use any emotion beside !

I hate you!
vs.
(In simpathetic tone)I hate you!

[tortall]

In the instance I was talking about I -did- emote that my char was over at the bar, and they were all the way over on the couch. Yet when I said something as simple as "Yeah!" They would wince. Others have told me to be quite when I'm obviously(even with emotes) just excited. Yes, your voice raises a -bit- when you're excited, but not -that- much!


-Tortall, who is a big digusted that no one got the point of this other than creeper.

[The Dude]

Language skills
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
sirihish duderish

>change language duderish
>say That's what you think.
The portly, middle-aged man says, in duderish "Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, man."

Down with the sex mud! This, my friends, is the LEBOWSKI Mud!

The shaggy goateed man says, in duderish:
"Hey, careful man! There's a beverage here, hey!"

[sacac]

I agree with delerium...
And as for X-D, When I know what I'm typing it only takes me a second to type it But it still could be 40WPM  :roll:

[Carnage]

Yes, your voice raises a -bit- when you're excited, but not -that- much!

Ouch, stop screaming.

[tortall]

I love you too Carnage.


-Tortall, who is in a rather good mood right now.

[flurry]

-Tortall, who is a big digusted that no one got the point of this other than creeper.

No, I think you had a valid point Tortall.    I think it's related to the idea of not forcing actions on other people in your roleplay.   In other words, by reacting as if your character were yelling, in a sense the other player is forcing that action on you.  

Most of the time I see that is in dealing with newbies...other chracters intentionally overreacting to make a point.   (Why did you just sit down on the floor?   Don't you see the chair right there?   Hey - did you see that guy sit down on the floor there?   Musta had one to many, that one.   etc. etc. etc.)     In that case I understand the intent is to be instructive, but in a way it's still forcing an action on someone by your reaction.

It can be awkward because if someone reacts in a certain way, you kind of have to play along with it.  



Anyway, I thought you had a reasonable point.   Whether you were right or wrong in that particular encounter,  it's impossible to say.  

I wonder if the people who cluttered up this thread with snarky comments would appreciate that in one of their threads.   In any case, I thought a few people were a bit rude here and I'm not sure why.

[Ralin]

have you ever gotten hurt IRL one way or another, and made that little hissing sound with your breathe when you breath in real fast?

Sounds something like: "Eeeeeeeeeess!"

Now...is that loud? Not really, most times it's barely audible, but I've found through the novels I've read, that nine out of ten writers are going to add an exclamation point on the end of it to get the point across that what just happened -indeed- hurt, without everyone within shouting distance hearing it.

[Quirk]

Delirium already covered this admirably. While there are lots of possible tones and volumes that can be applied to an exclamation, if you don't specify how you're exclaiming it's really to be expected that people will take it as being said more loudly than the rest of your speech.

I can agree with that. I'll admit I often don't put emoted into my talking. Hey, I'm lazy.  


-Tortall, who is lazy.

If people aren't going to trouble themselves with emoting how they exclaim something, of course they're going to be misunderstood.

Of course, as this point has already been made (and shouldn't need to be reposted)... dare I suggest there's nothing more to see here and we can all move on already?

Quirk