Player-Staff meeting

[mansa]

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
That puts us to @Rev 🙂  What's your fun question?

Rev:
Any plans or plots expounding on centralized religion the way the White Cloaks used to evangelize and propitiate worship? Templars are reactive, like the pagans, when Allanak itself has a nigh-Carthaginian presence among the desert. Religion could be a caste where everyone rubs elbows which would make it quite appealing to karma-starved players looking for a common bond. It seems like a good place to groom many stories: from squires to templars to deist-existentialist elementalist pilgrims. It can be a great way to hook -anyone- into a plot if they just have a shared common belief.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
To make sure - you're talking about White Robe Templars instead of the northern orders, right?

Rev:
Yes I am, I don't know about the northern orders - those sound like a good thing.

Halaster:
Religion or strong religious overtones are something we've always steered away from in the game.  Yeah, there's a bit of in in Allanak with the whole devotions and "all my children", or whatever it is they yell at each other there.  And some spiritualism among tribals.  But there's never been an appetite for any more "religion" in the game than where there is.
"All lives", taht's what I was thinking of

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
So this is a cool question with a complex answer.  The White Robes of Allanak were partially lowered in importance for a while because we saw a lot of RL Religion aspects creeping in on how Templars acted.

The thing to remember about the "religion of the dragon" is that it isn't a worship based religion.  It's a fear based religion.  Tektolnes ALLOWS the people of Allanak to live there in his shadow, he doesn't care if they worship him, he cares if they OBEY him.  He doesn't give benedictions, his Templars shouldn't (and largely don't) care about the populace, and he won't create rain to fertilize the crops to make sure people don't starve.  Tektolnes cares about his own power, and his own power alone.

We started to see some creep into the game about how Tektolnes was this benevolent dude, and we absolutely needed to throttle that back.

Rev:
I do not believe any of us want to be hit with a whip as we're driven to church, but we do love the mythos and the lore that makes up the world. Thanks for explaining more on why they -were- cut out.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
No problem, glad to help@





Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
@TherealTheoVon it's you!  What's your model question?

TherealTheoVon:
My question has been answered within some of the last few, feel free to move on! Thanks!

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
Rock on!





Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
@Ash Probably  you're up!

Ash Probably:
oh boy
So, this is bouncing off of Zot's question here because mine was basically the same: player recruitment. As a newb here, I can say that the only way that I even discovered that MUDs were a thing was through the sheer luck of coming across another roleplayer who recommended it to me. Are there any plans to...

...Interact further with the Discord roleplaying base? (I.E. through Disboard and official server partnerships for exposure)
...Host OOC events to further promote the game? (Say, an art contest or something with similar hype. Could reward a temporary extra Karma point or something to the winner)
...Spruce up the Discord/website as a whole and make it prettier / include extra avenues of engagement? 🥺
And how involved can the playerbase get in these things, basically

Halaster:
The OOC events thing is a cool idea actually, I especially like the art contest thing.  And some of us agree, the website is need of some modernization and updating.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
How can players get involved:

We do have a promotions section of the GDB, and we always very much want to see new recruitment going.

Interaction with Discord:

Previously I put in a ton of time interacting with people on Discord - and while it was by and large fun, a lot of the time I would find myself drained from it and unable to create in game content or run plotlines.  It can sometimes take a lot out of you!

I absolutely love the idea of an art contest - and there were several character portraits produced a while back which all came from one artist.  I wouldn't mind seeing more!  I remmber way back when the game Spore premiered that we had a contest for people trying to create Anakores and Kanks and such... maybe something like that could be revisited amongst the more art talented folks.  I'd love to see it!

Halaster:
Someone needs to create Zalanthas in Minecraft.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
Another good tactic for recruitment is the all famous Reddit - a good review in the /muds on reddit can bring in people.  We've seen this repeatedly!





Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
@Delirium you're back on stage

Delirium:
Is staff taking into consideration the question of: "does this rule or documentation promote or discourage interaction" when deciding on and enforcing them? We already have a fairly small playerbase, and it seems plots and decisions lately have divided it further. This includes but is not limited to the mage interaction issue, the current way Tuluk is set up, etc. Conflict is great, but conflict that discourages interaction tends not to play out well.

I'm a proponent of "elemental mages are currently too powerful" but that does not mean I don't empathize with their players wanting interaction that isn't murderous antagonism or hatred. We play this game to interact while we tell our stories, otherwise we might as well write a novel. I can point to a few instances of enjoyable stories which developed realistically over a long period of time but "by the book" would seem to be looked down upon.

If we're relying on social pressure to make mages less powerful, that will not ever be effective. Players want to interact, and "you can only be mean to the mage" seems to inevitably result in mages hanging out with mages, and mundanes feeling ever more powerless.
And if the two major centers of player population cannot interact much beyond kill or be killed, that also reduces interaction.

Halaster:
Do we ask ourselves that question "does this promote or discourage interaction" in every decision we make?  Probably not.  We make mistakes.  But often we don't really know the answer until we try.  I would rather see us try something new (open Tuluk, introduce new subguilds, etc) and have it fail than see us stagnate and do nothing.  Personally speaking, at least.
(I hope other staff answer this too, not just me 🙂  )

Shabago:
These things are always in consideration, yes. (Great question). What that question on the surface suggests, however, is departing from the very theme that has made the game popular or successful to be around nigh 30 years now. We all started playing under these guides and game direction. - Ruining the theme for the sake of Amon whiran and Grebber Joe getting their skill buffs from Sorcerer Malik is not something we're ever going to be approving of. - That said, I can understand the intent of the question. There is grey-area, and there are exceptions to be made depending on both character development in background or actions through IC/IG time that would cause such to take place. Playing a mage carries the stigma and expectation to be 'abused' IG by the playerbase - that is interaction. That is something of an agreement by asking to play it, rather than "Accepted human with spells." - As to Tuluk and Allanak divide, there is nothing that states they can not or never will co-exist in some capacity - Years ago, they had open 'peace' and treaties. Again, this goes back to game balance of overall theme and balance, and player desire for conflict as to why its so often hostile - but it's not etched in stone, nor is any other policy when it comes to bringing players together in some thematic fashion.

Delirium:
You're kind of assuming that I'm even referring to Amon whiran and Amos Joe getting buffs from each other. Please don't do that.
I'm referring to just interacting in a non-hostile way, or maybe even becoming cautious friends, but having realistic limits and misgivings in that relationship.
The current staff stance seems to be that you cannot even be friendly or you're a bad roleplayer.

Aromit is a fish:
I would like to add that disliking someone is not to exclude them from roleplay, at the heart of the game is interaction. Your character can despise elves and still include them in roleplay, sometimes the best stories come from those interactions. you and your character can be inclusive (with roleplay) and discriminatory at the same time. Its a communal storytelling game after all.

Halaster:
Probably more to get into than we can get into here.  Sounds like a good GDB thread to me

Delirium:
I don't mean being friendly at the bar, either.
But alright, GDB thread #2.

[mansa]

Shabago:
@wday you had a question

wday:
With allt he armor and changes in game now. Think staff could look into making common shop bought things fit to race? Say a mul can go to walmart and get a bow that isnt great but he can use and grind up to be able to buy a 20k bow? Or a half giant get a mace and it not break or read as two foot long in a 12 foot tall beings hand? Makes me vision a HG wielding a spoon.

Aromit is a fish:
you can actually buy things by racial sizes currently

wday:
armor seems to be in code
not weapons

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
There are specifically HG weapons in game - are you asking if we can make those more readily available?

wday:
Make more common shop bought items. Like a agafari bow but is made for a HG. Not any plus or code just something a new character can buy and use poorly to they finaly can order a crafted item. PLus this I think would help speed the grind for a new charater and flesh them out. Other then skill bumps and offline perk of learning.

Katima-Di 🚧:
There is no way to build an object in a manner where it changes its information based on whose holding it. The code doesn't support it, so there are HG items, and there are nonHG items. Muls already have bows ingame designed by certain clans you can find through IC research that won't break when they try to shoot things in the face with them.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
So when we first started making the HG items this was the intent.  We got some of them out, but then other projects cropped up.  I'd be in support of making them more readily available and having more variety of them, yes.

wday:
well that goes into having to find a ICly player in a clan to get such. This goes into many other questions here on time and hidden players





Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
@Barsook what is your boggle?  🙂

Barsook:
I was expecting a small introduction for the reason of the player-staff meeting before the Q/A session and my question is simple:

What were your take aways from the Game Feedback Thread?  Aside from what players asked already.

Thank you.

Halaster:
Good ?
Usiku (bless her heart) has finished collating the answers from that thread and we've started some staff-side discussions on our discussion boards...
We don't have very many "public" answers to give yet, but I'm happy to give you a quick rundown of the topoics
Number one theme was "the grind", both coded skills and social grind.  By a longshot that was the most common one

Barsook:
I understand. I think most of the playerbase is willing to help with the changes and your thoughts.

Halaster:
Second most common theme was "player agency", which is all about freedom to move plots, glass ceilings, climbing the latter
and Third most common was staff support, which means request tool turnaround, communication style, and general interaction with staff
There's more but I don't wanna take up too much time.  Anyway, we're discussing the larger issues right now and plan to break them down into individual discussions about each topic.  Talk about what, if anything, we want to do about them, and discuss ideas.

Barsook:
Understood. Thank you again.





Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
@Lord Fart Max Softly

Lord Fart Max Softly:
Hello all! My question is mostly on the direction of GMH! It feels like since I've played that there has been a frequent turn-around or notably "you can never get in contact with so-and so". I don't blame the merchants, I played one and while my turnaround was great, once everyone got what they needed I had a month of no orders or very few. So, do you all think that GMH need to be worked or that something needs to change?

Halaster:
I think anyone who's played one probably agrees, Max.  Playing one is tedious, demanding and you feel like a vending machine.  So yeah, I think it would be nice to try and fix that someone so people -want- to play those roles.

Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
It can also be tough on the staff members involved in GMH.  I think turning some brain power towards it would be a solid thing for us to do, yeah.

Hestia:
I think self-pacing should be encouraged as well.  And the rest of the players accepting a non-immediate pace for goods.  If a templar wants a fancy something, it should be OKAY to say "we'll have it within a month Lord Templar."  You shouldn't feel obligated to get it to him within 2 RL days.
Even if it's something you have in stock.

Halaster:
I suppose you could open an Idea request if you have a good idea (or ideas) on ways that can be improved
(you being anyone, not just Max)

Katima-Di 🚧:
In my own experiences in GMH leader roles, the part that always wore me out the most was that the stress caused ICly over timing turned into a problem that gave me anxiety on an OOC level, which in turn made the role a 'job' and caused me to stop being present as much. Because I got to a point where I dreaded the interaction because it always went one way. I think in some ways its on us to educate players about being patient, especially when getting something in requires a request through staff 90% of the time. Its definitely something I've always wanted us to discuss though so I'm sure it'll be on the docket now.

Aromit is a fish:
In my time with GMH, I took a long long at the functions of the clans on all levels from crafters to merchants and how to make them more appealing. I've shared these thoughts with a lot of the team and some of the changes I would personally like to see. While I haven't pulled the trigger on designing these changes yet, a change in regard to making GMH life more engaging is definitely on my list.
The work we've done on the economy project has also made some strides for helping GMH be more self sufficient/interactive.

Lord Fart Max Softly:
Thanks for all the responses, BTW!





Halaster:
Ok, @Delirium you're up.  And then we'll have one more after that and then done.
(Shabago had to go btw, that's why he's been usurped)

Delirium:
Is staff currently willing to continue taking feedback on the implementation of the main classes and subclasses and genuinely consider adjusting them based on that feedback? Players often have valuable input after experimenting with them "on the ground" but I'm uncertain if those suggestions would be entertained, as there was already a recent adjustment to a few of the classes/subclasses.

Halaster:
Yeah sure.  I doubt we'd be changing them anytime soon only because Brokkr just did that, we want to let that go a while and see how it works out.  But absolutely we're interested in hearing the feedback

Delirium:
So the answer is, don't bother taking up the hours of my RL time trying to write up that feedback just yet? 🙂

Halaster:
If you think it's going to take hours to read, work on summarizing 🙂

Delirium:
No. Hours to write. Semi a joke. I try to summarize.

Hestia:
We'll continue to take feedback. We like feedback.  Feedback doesn't, however, result in quick change.

Katima-Di 🚧:
There have been a large number of feedback-based adjustments made since the new class/subclass system rolled out. Brokkr haunts discussions about this stuff, and it gets talked about regularly. I don't expect that to change. As long as immediate results aren't expected barring something breaking the game, I think its reasonable to assume feedback is always looked at.

Hestia:
Sometimes when change is needed, it needs more time to see what works presently, compare with feedback, and then down the line - changes are proposed.

Delirium:
Okay. It can often feel like hard work and time gets dumped into a void a lot of the time, here. I imagine that happens on both sides of the curtain.





Halaster:
Final bonus question from @Lady of Long Dogs

Lady of Long Dogs:
It would be great to see more occasions to the environment come alive with small emotes and echoes such as in tavern: A barkeeper having an idle chit chat, an elf that picks a pocket, a soldier that searches a patron, etc. Also just to set the tone a bit for the scene/area as well, without immediate consequences for the PC's. Would you entertain this idea?

Halaster:
We'd love to do more of that, and honestly that's kind of one of the core things we should be doing as staff.  That said, as our current staffing round indicates, we need more help.  Because there are a number of things that prevent us from doing so.  The most common the request tool.  I suppose I shouldn't speak for everyone else, but I find that due to the sheer volume of requests coming in, I spend more time on that than doing things IN the game.

Lady of Long Dogs:
Perhaps assign some assistants that can do just that? 🙂

Usiku:
I actually do this quite a lot, and think many of the staffers try to. We are juggling a lot of work up here, so these are the kinds of things that end up at the lower end of the priority list - but it's definitely something we like to do!

Drinn:
If anyone would like to submit a list of tavern echoes or the like, feel free to do so. I idea'd something similar once in Blackwing as a player and a staff member wished down to me to invite me to write some.

Hestia:
I actually have been trying to get some "stuff" in the bars, animations. Syncing up play times for spontaneous RP amo,atopms is herding cats.
animations.

Katima-Di 🚧:
I think that ends up largely depending on how much time a particular staffperson has to devote to their staffwork at a given time, weighed against how much clan work they have that is their primary priority. As Project ST pretty much every moment of my time is devoted to adding things to the game world that are more long-term available. I do like to go do flavor echoes in the world when I have extra extra time, though.

Lady of Long Dogs:
thank you, its super appreciated 🙂


Shalooonsh is on TeamEverShine:
One thing I'd like to bounce off about this with - and this is a specific point you brought up
The pickpocketing animation.
We see a lot of negativity sometimes when we do pickpocket animations, or animate someone who's non-friendly.  We honestly don't mind doing this, we think it's fun and it's a realistic part of the gameworld  -- but players have responded poorly to it in the past if we so much as steal half a rotten petoch from them.  This caused us to throttle back in a way.

I personally would love to see these things become more commonplace, with both beneficial animations and stealing/negative animations alike being more welcomed 🙂

Not everything in the game is going to be positive, and not every situation is going to work out how a player thinks.  We're in a cooperative storytelling venture here, so being open to all concepts goes a long way on both sides of the fence!

Halaster:
What I'm hearing is:  staff should make pc's who are pickpockets.  GOT IT

Lady of Long Dogs:
that too!

Halaster:
Alright, that wraps us up then.  Thanks everyone for attending, and glad to see some old (hahah you're old) faces rejoining us for it too.  Later.

[triste]

A lot of people love this game but barely have time to play due to increasing demands IRL. Does staff plan to invest in features or policy changes which might make this game more playable for an increasingly busy playerbase?

This would be my question too.

Looks like our question was never asked.

I made this reply before I saw the other thread, moved the question there, ty.