The Game's Pace: An Aging Playerbase vs You

[Veselka]

Hi there,

I've noticed that some people expect the pace of ArmageddonMUD to be something like Witcher 3, where every time you log in you jump into the action (or the action of your choosing). I think particularly surrounding The War Stuff happening now IG (which I won't dive into in detail), people expect it to be non-stop action all the time and have a ton of forward momentum every time they log in. I think this is inaccurate to how ArmageddonMUD actually plays out -- long periods of droll, rote routine with relationship building and taverns and 'basic' fun, combined with out of nowhere adrenaline spiking intensity in small doses (or heavy doses, depending on which role you are playing).

As well, I've noticed people are also concerned there isn't a huge spike in player-count or player numbers of late. I mostly think people are waiting to see when the next Staff Announcement for an RPT is.

I'd argue that the player base is just getting older -- and maybe more understanding -- of the fact that the pace of the game isn't breakneck every time you log in. So they are balancing the game/hobby with other games/hobbies or family or RL in general. I imagine Staff is as well.

I dunno what kind of PSA this is -- Maybe a tap on the shoulder to take a step back and not play the game 24/7 for some folks, or expect everyone else around you to be playing as much as you are (or can). Or bitch about how slow the game is (it's always been this way), or how little is going on (according to you). Just play the game when you can, have fun when you can, and don't take it so seriously.

[LindseyBalboa]

(Comment deleted by me, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark that didn't really help my point)

[Dresan]

The way I see it this is just one of the downsides to  being too bias towards clans while at the same time not having an powerful antagonistic force in place to support smaller groups and individuals.   There is little support for the ambitious indy characters that used to fill in the fun in between plot events.

Any interesting indie that happens to pop in gets stomped into dust by all the bored karma3 roles working for equally boring sponsored roles and everything in between too.  Instead everyone joins a clans, where they get everything they could ever want and need, where you are made to feel like a twink if your character is anything but giddy at the job they are doing, and we all know the consequences for pissing off the pc/npc/vnpc bosses. Not to mention the only place to train effectively and be able to get involved in plots while not being completely treated like cannon fodder.

The players that aren't logging on are probably in locations where its currently completely empty due to the event. They can't be blamed and hopefully they come back when the event runs it course. As for the event itself, I doubt anyone is complaining, maybe just eager to see what happens at the end.  I myself am curious what the changes that this event will bring, perhaps fixing one of the things missing since Tuluk closed. 

As to the general population numbers, the reasons don't matter, its just a fact that the game population has been declining for years and the game just needs to continue to adapt to that reality.

[LindseyBalboa]

I'd argue that the player base is just getting older -- and maybe more understanding -- of the fact that the pace of the game isn't breakneck every time you log in. So they are balancing the game/hobby with other games/hobbies or family or RL in general. I imagine Staff is as well.

I dunno what kind of PSA this is -- Maybe a tap on the shoulder to take a step back and not play the game 24/7 for some folks, or expect everyone else around you to be playing as much as you are (or can). Or bitch about how slow the game is (it's always been this way), or how little is going on (according to you). Just play the game when you can, have fun when you can, and don't take it so seriously.

Any interesting indie that happens to pop in gets stomped into dust by all the bored karma3 roles working for equally boring sponsored roles and everything in between too.  Instead everyone joins a clans, where they get everything they could ever want and need, where you are made to feel like a twink if your character is anything but giddy at the job they are doing, and we all know the consequences for pissing off the pc/npc/vnpc bosses. Not to mention the only place to train effectively and be able to get involved in plots while not being completely treated like cannon fodder.

These threads quickly turn into anti-ads for the game. The kind of stuff I'd see while looking at a game I was thinking about playing, then decide not to. "We know what happens when you piss off NPCs" is just saying staff is going to kill you. "Any interesting idea that happens to pop in gets stomped into the dust by 3 karma players and sponsored players" is an attack that manages to combine distrusting staff (they choose sponsored roles) AND the player base (they play them and have karma), which is an achievement, I'll give it that. "Quit bitching about how you feel the game is slow" is some weird unnecessary attack pitting player vs player, as is anything when people say "Well we're grown up and have hobbies" as if people that play a lot are young or don't have hobbies/jobs/lives/families.

It's a FAR cry from statements like "I'd like to see more indy plots going on, here's a suggestion on how to do that" or "I've noticed there's a lot of disparity in playing times, I liked Halaster's idea on Discord about passive points. Here's another suggestion I have:"

Like damn, tone, y'all.

[mansa]

I've been going outside more. 

[Aruven]

I like seeing this type of a thread.

I got into this game when I was 13-14 years old, and i'm 31 now. I remember the usual playerbase being 10-20 years older than me at the time I got into the game.

The shift in gameplay over almost two decades has been noticeable--Most aspects of it.

I think as far as plot arcs and what used to be known as an 'HRPT' is concerned, nobody really knows. The one I engaged in most was the copper war, and I remember players were expecting 100 PCs into a room for combat when it started, but they were (pleasantly in my case) surprised at the prolonged siege-type situation that turned into 3-4 major battles being fought over a month in real life or so.

The pace of the game has certainly changed. I remember when you used to get smacked for simply spamming through rooms too quickly--A day or two trip from the north to Red Storm is fairly casual now.

This breaks down into some areas that I don't know how to solve. On a personal level, if I played juggernaut hours: which I can no longer do with a family, I was frustrated and unhappy. Things just weren't moving fast enough for me putting in so much time.

I don't know if there is a 'baseline' of expectation or play anymore. In my own experience i've felt a loss of gameworld atmosphere for various reasons, but I have for years felt the emphasis on roleplay faded out and I don't really know how to put my finger on it. I am still happy with the simple scene where characters stick to their station and RP, no cataclysmic event involved.

[number13]

As the old Diku proverb goes, all good things must come to end. And we're at the end.

My hope is the game can shutter with some grace and good times, instead of hobbling along all zombie-ish.

[Aruven]

That.... makes me feel dead inside.

[Veselka]

Absolutely not the intent of the thread to be an 'anti ad' for the game. Any and all glomming on for that do so at their own behest and reasoning.

I'm in a healthier place (mentally) than I have ever been with the game. I take breaks. I don't play all the time. I play when I play, and I try to do so consistently when I'm in leadership positions. When I lose a PC I don't lose my shit IRL. I have other focuses in my life, so ArmageddonMUD is A hobby, not The hobby.

I certainly hope new players interested in the game aren't even checking out the GDB first to vet whether or not they want to play the game, based on a thread they read on the GDB. I hope most of them just jump into the actual game, not the discussion board. Honestly they're probably checking out the Discord more than the GDB these days, and that isn't exactly the platform for discourse and discussion. Half the time I log in to Discord (on any server) I regret it.

The point of the thread, or the thought process behind it, is to encourage people to maintain a healthy relationship with the game. To not play it to excess, or expect every PC around you to play it as much as you can (or might) play the game.

It's certainly not a dead game, or a dying game. It's a changing game, and I'm glad it is. I honestly don't care if the game only has X people playing it, because I like playing ISO roles and have enjoyed them for long stretches of time. I enjoy the game for the interaction I do find, when I find it, whether it be PK or Political PVP or whatever else is in-between those two on the spectrum. I think that's certainly still achievable, and I would say over the course of about 20 years of playing, I've never been more happy playing the game than now.

[triste]

Armageddon was just popping when all my irl friends were being lame because it's a Tuesday so IDK about the "deadgame" hypothesis and tone going on here. Veselka just replied to the same effect but I hate seeing this devolve into fatalistic "well we're all gonna die anyway" type arguments as much as I love emotional excess.

This game is very niche and takes intellectual investment. That's why authors and shit have played this and continue to play this. Passionate people being into a niche hobby is why various hobbies exist centuries after the time in which they should be "dead." Besides the Chromebook platform being shitty about telnet support I've seen no other indication that telnet as a protocol is going to be unsupported any time soon. The only point at which this game should reasonably be "shuttered" is when people can't connect to it. Otherwise we can and should take pride in being a part of a gaming community that has existed nearly a third of a century.

Yes we can't play like we played in grade school. Yes staff can ideally address some of these problems of an increasingly busy playerbase, I've made some suggestions in other threads. But arguments that the game is going to inevitably die aren't helpful. It's like talking to people hung up on the inevitable heat death of the universe, YEAH, I know, but let's be proactive.

I remember going to E3 in 2012 or some shit and seeing a lot of technology conductive to roleplaying in graphical MMORPGs such as face tracking technology. For whatever reason eight years later we have yet to see that integrated into an MMORPG. Because hardcore roleplaying isn't mainstream, we are fucking niche. So let's be thankful for what we have and make the most of it, as much as we can, within our time constraints.

[SpyGuy]

I'm not going to write a long post on why 'the game is dead' is wrong.  Others have stated it well above. So I'm going to give my take on how I have fun in Armageddon.  I usually play peak but often also play in the wee hours of server time where you're lucky to have 5-10 people online.

Solo:  Set character goals or routines that involve solo RP.  These can often involve actions that help your skills or making money but can also involve doing things like information gathering that you can then use to gain trust to get more involved in plots.  This is also important during quiet times so you can be open for contact if you're already known by a few people.  Part of my routine is usually to idle in a tavern at night on the off chance I might meet someone new to help with points two and three.  A second monitor helps a lot if you're not into or tired of solo RP.

Regular contact buddy:  Some people have stretches where they can play a lot or their regular hours match perfectly with yours.  A few of those people play offpeak.  Shout out to those I've befriended IC this way, you guys are awesome.  But just one person your character gets along with to chat over the Way while you do solo stuff can make for an engaging time IC. If skills/character concepts line up they may even be able to be your partner in crime/hunting/mischief.  I find it's easier to do this when you're both independent or in a very flexible clan but you can always try to ask permission or break the clan rules to get some fun going.

Two to four partners:  My sweet spot is when I know a group of two to four other players that share play times.  Organize little things like inviting everyone to the tavern.  Organize hunts or grebbing missions.  Find out what your partners need or what the people they're trying to please need and organize hunts/grebbing missions.

One more note:  these things will change.  Your characters regular contact buddies and partners will die.  IC events may happen that mean you no longer what to be in contact with them. Or the player will take a break (that's healthy and I fault no one for taking a break when they need one).  So sometimes you'll need to start from square one all over again building up your list of people to contact to RP with.  That can suck and be boring but I've generally found if you're engaging and looking to involve people in activities, plots and RP that you'll find new characters to have fun with.

[RavingTregils]

The game didn't move. I moved.
I've seen times with fewer players than now, especially off peak. I remember hours of being the only one online..or just that 1 other person somewhere off in the void.

But I don't know if I can grind again. It's a serious commitment and I have chores.

The payoff in the game is so far away. Can't do shit out the gate and it's going to take a day or 2 played to be able to do anything interesting.
So when that tregil starts ripping out my pc's throat..do I really want to flee and come back another 10 times just to be able to survive a random tregil encounter?
It's tough. Once you get over the newbie hump then the game can be great. But getting there is a huge climb.

No, it's not you, Arm, it's me.

[Dresan]

I don't think anyone has said the game is dead, at least i haven't. Some areas certain feel dead but that is because there is an event going on consolidating everyone into a certain spot. I think we all understand that.

That said, population decline is a reality of this game as it is for any game, and instead of making excuses or trying find reasons as to why, we should accept that its the reality and we continue to adapt. There are a lot of design choices and mechanics in the game which were not implemented with a smaller and more a casual player base in mind. And while we are not yet at a place were some of these changes are absolutely needed, making some changes now will help make the game less frustrating for people things continue with this trend.  For example, besides offline training of some sort perhaps implementing scripted caravans from luirs to allanak to redstorm come to mind especially for offpeak players. 

Pacing is a separate issue that deserves its own thread. It is not linked to declining population, even when we had a larger population this could be a problem. In the era where staff only promoted player run plots, the world felt slow and now when they are running plots it can also feel slow. IMO, its because the powerful antagonistic force of tuluk is gone and indies who generate their own content are much more difficult to play. The game needs a balance. For years, everyone complained about indies, well congrats joining a clans is now almost the only sane way to play the game.  If your character follows the rules they continue to experience the fun the clan will generate, and if you don't then you become the fun for the other members.

Like damn, tone, y'all.

There is a method to the madness. These threads are important to hash out feeling and thoughts on the state of game. The game would definitely not have improved as much over the years without them. 

[Riev]

I don't think anyone has said the game is dead, at least i haven't. Some areas certain feel dead but that is because there is an event going on consolidating everyone into a certain spot. I think we all understand that.

One person said it. So that means everyone is saying it.
Engaging in hyperbole doesn't make your point any more valid. People know who I'm talking about.

On topic:
   The world of the PC moves in seconds. Your character can die at a moments notice.
   The world of the Player moves in days. It can take days of social and skill grinding RP to really feel "in your place".
   The world of staff moves in weeks. It takes a long time for staff to collaborate and coordinate, making 'simple' answers take a long time.

The pace of the game, itself, feels stagnant to me only because we have a lot less "world plots" going on now. Previous big RPT and HRPT plots got poo-poo'd by players who felt that their decisions didn't matter enough, or that staff's vision for the plot was on rails, or that "the plot didn't even make sense". Pick your poison. It was enough for staff to not want to run plots anymore, and make us come up with our own.

When a world plot DOES come around, it carries an expectation that there is an increased staff presence and an ability for a PC to 'hook in' to what is going on. But extended RL-week-long sieges and waits do not carry a good amount of fun. The way to have fun is to 'break rules', and it can STILL be very difficult to determine whether the STAFF is mad at YOU, or your IC superiors are angry at your PC.

The pace is very slow. It always has been, but that doesn't make it great.

[triste]

One person said it. So that means everyone is saying it.
Engaging in hyperbole doesn't make your point any more valid. People know who I'm talking about.

For anyone who finds vaguebooking exhausting, the first poster to mention the game closing here was number13. I don't agree, but I am not going to try and dunk on their opinion so sophomorically.

I will say that I generally stop reading someone's opinion when they start by insulting someone else in such a manner, so I did not read the rest of Riev's post, maybe it's good, (therefore, didn't report it).

SHOW RESPECT. Please?

[LindseyBalboa]

Like damn, tone, y'all.

There is a method to the madness. These threads are important to hash out feeling and thoughts on the state of game. The game would definitely not have improved as much over the years without them.

Oh, I'm sure. I just don't have decades of investment in the game, so I bring my point of view out on the GDB. Attracting new players, and keeping them, will be much easier if people are civil and generally community-focused on the GDB. There's enough toxic shit out there, especially in this genre. Have at it, friends.

[number13]

I will say that I generally stop reading someone's opinion when they start by insulting someone else in such a manner, so I did not read the rest of Riev's post, maybe it's good, (therefore, didn't report it).

I don't mind Riev's comments. I view it as a expression of grief.

I'm sorry to be the one to point out the elephant in the room, but it's there. How y'all deal with it is up to you.

But personally, I think it would be healthy if we could openly talk about previously IC things, maybe open source the game on github, and/or allow some sort of wiki or something to catalog what is known about the game. Allow people access to archives of bios and staff discussions. Allow and encourage unfiltered logs to be posted somewhere. Build a nice little digital monument to the game.

None of that stops people from still playing. It facilitates setting up fork servers, in fact. It facilitates a wider range of people making pull requests to maintain bits of code and data.

Armageddon of 2000 or 2010 is gone and dead. Armageddon of the 2020s could be it's own special thing, if we were willing to adapt, instead of operating on the pretense of FOIC.

[triste]

Maybe reduce the time period for talking about past characters to six months instead of a year, but I wholly disagree with removing FOIC entirely. I've seen what happens when FOIC goes out the window. Suddenly you see doc defying crap like highborns rubbing elbows with Rinthi breeds because one is played by WeekndWarrior88 and one is played by ReaverBoy69 and they have been besties for years, cultural documentation be damned.

I get the point you are making, but I think we need better communication mechanisms in game, not a blanket reveal of information OOCly. While personally I wouldn't mind seeing the code, this would also put players who can't read code or don't care about code at a disadvantage. The recommendations you propose are interesting but when applied would probably accelerate the death of the game if anything. Something to consider when it's time to take the game off life support because telnet protocol is no longer supported or all of the staff die from the newest pangolin-with-a-bat-up-the-butt plague or something.

[number13]

Telnet isn't going anywhere. It has a lot uses beyond muds. Even if it did somehow die, there web clients that can do the same job.

[triste]

Then why the fatalistic viewpoint (citation: "My hope is the game can shutter with some grace and good times")? We can have a game here that has been around not only thirty years, but fifty years or more.

Regardless, thank you for your recommendations, they're interesting for sure. I just don't think open sourcing the code is the right answer, as I think it would alienate parts of our playerbase who do not know how to code and do not care about the code. If your stated hope is "game dying with grace," I'll give it to you that you do have good ideas for how to put make-up on a corpse, but this game isn't a corpse yet.

[triste]

Since I come across as a spitballing asshole, my position in less than 25 words, which I have stated in other threads:

Improve the options for asynchronous communication, make any new feature to facilitate low playtimes benefit indies equally. This will create plots without demanding playtimes.

[Pariah]

So reading through this thread, I think a problem with the pace of the game isn't really all having to do with Players or lack there of.  I think some of it has to do with Design, and before someone gets offended and thinks I'm dogging the game, I'm not.  What I mean is as follows:

The game has been around forever, and back in it's heyday had 60-100 people playing at one time.  There were more of everything, more crafters, more social barsitters, more nobles, more lackeys more killers, literally more of everything, not to account for more race options (I'm still sorta bummed I didn't get to play a halfling or mantis).

Now, without having to go into specifics, I feel I can make some pretty valid assumptions of supply and demand now that I've been playing a bit again and have seen how it the world and shops etc seem to act.

Again, these are just my feelings on the matter, not claiming expert knowledge or staff level knowledge but my educated guesses as to some pain points in the game for different types of folks.

Explorer types:  This is difficult, there are literally rooms that will kill you instantly, creatures that I don't think are designed to be fought and live against, and rooms that hurt you, mount endurance doesn't regenerate fast enough to make an explorer all that valid without lots of resting and/or idle downtime waiting for my mount to regen, or if on foot, yourself to regen.  Add into the mix that there are critters that will follow you to the ends of the earth and/or track you down so you require at least middling combat skills to survive that encounter, if the beast is poisonous, then you require cures which aren't all that readily available either.  So my take on explorers is they are either a super slow burn, or extremely dangerous living by the seat of your pants role.

Fighters: Due to how slow combat skills are to raise, this is another one that takes a pretty decent time to raise up.  Not to mention the nuances of PVP, such as poisons, tactics and such that the player themselves needs to learn to be successful if you're trying to kill folks, it's a hard thing to do, long build up.

Crafters: As mentioned in another thread, crafting is a bit wonky with certain things at higher levels (advanced/master) to the point where things will seemingly fail a lot that appear like they shouldn't.  Effortless crafts for example. https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,56950.0.html

Not only that, but say you join a clan of some type.  You often will be presented with hundreds if not multiple hundreds of items with which to craft, however most of the time there is no output for those items.  So say you have a ton of animal bits and you're a weaponcrafter, you can make a bunch of weapons and advance your skill but it sorta feels hollow because the need for said items is normally pretty low.  Now I have seen some clans "job" this up with their merchanty type folks, and have you created a bunch of stuff and then the merchant will sell it and give you a cut, that's cool but ultimately a very limited avenue of using up the finished goods.

Add on that ingredients literally last forever outside of cooking items and you eliminate the real need for anyone to hire that indy hunter to go get chalton bone or horn because your workshop has fifty of them you're not using or insert random "Beginner hunted" item.

Then the stores have their limits, so you can make a +2 sword of opal awesomeness, but they won't always buy it due to someone else making three or four of them and they tell you they have too many.

Plus it's sorta boring AND unrealistic to sit in the crafting hall all day and craft an armory of weapons just because when there is no definitive output for them.  I've often wondered if maybe there could be some random soldier who accepts weapons for a pittance (no where near what the shops pay) but maybe keeps track and lets the Templars/Soldiers know that Amos the Crafter has supplied them with twenty longswords because he's a cool ass citizen who wants to help his town.

Mages: (Admittedly VERY Rusty as I haven't played one substantially for years).  But the way the magic system works is odd and sorta requires a lot of use of magic to unlock spells and full potentials of the various types of mage.  Add on that they now are subguilds and you have your primary guild to train up etc, it's another one that's hard to balance whether you're working on homeboy's mundane skills or hiding in your cave/apartment and casting create tribbles 100 times till you unlock it at Mon and the next spell in the chain.  Last time I played a real (not touched) mage that made it a decent life, I felt like I had to devote large amounts of my time casting magic to get it to a usable state.

So with this being the case, I feel that lots of mages probably spend lots of time off on their own, or with their mage friends doing witch shit instead of interacting with the world until they become trained enough in the magic real and survivability wise with combat to start to come out to the world and take risks.

Now what does all that mean?  It means that lots of the game is off in their niche, off doing their thing, whether it's hunting and getting nearly eaten by scrabs fifty times till they aren't in danger of scrabs anymore, or sitting in their temple/apartment spam casting till they can make rainbow butterflies come from their opponents ass at Mon.

How do you get the folks more involved with others?  Fuck if I know, I think if someone figures out a way to get people to interact more with others and play this game more as a multiplayer game and treat folks more as characters in a story versus opponents to kill (No bashing PKers, just using that as a point) we would have folks more apt to be out and about "doing stuff".

Also if there were ways to reward those who put in tons of time, say like the crafter example, without it all being just a way to make sid, that would probably make crafting more of a sought out role versus the simple combat role?

I could be totally wrong, but that's my take on why the game is how it is now.  Depending on the character/player they all have different priorities and they play in exclusion of anything but those priorities.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

While there are a ton of valid points here, I think it's important to also make this point: People don't know what MUDs are.

How does that get solved? Well, you should be investigating new ways to advertise, to enable access to the game, and to get new eyes on the game. We older cats have been playing forever, and even when we started, most of us discovered the game by accident, or via a friend. For instance, I was introduced by my younger brother. He learned of it in an AOL chat room.

There has been a massive change in how popular roleplaying as a verbal medium (D&D, etc) rather than a graphical one has become, and how mainstream it has become, and I am annoyed beyond words that we don't have a marketing team capable or having the desire to be taking advantage of this.

We need a serious talk about how comfortable we feel about presenting ourselves to the world, and then we need to formulate a plan to take advantage of how easy it is to get eyes on something these days. Perhaps we need to establish a GoFundMe for ad costs or something. We could be more active on social media.

We have ways to grow the playerbase, and plenty of players who can offer mentorship. More players means more roles, more staff, more things open. It means a longer death cycle for the game.

But if we really just let things go on, I won't get to retire to Armageddon. Armageddon will retire on me, and I'll be sad.

[SpyGuy]

While there are a ton of valid points here, I think it's important to also make this point: People don't know what MUDs are.

...

There has been a massive change in how popular roleplaying as a verbal medium (D&D, etc) rather than a graphical one has become, and how mainstream it has become, and I am annoyed beyond words that we don't have a marketing team capable or having the desire to be taking advantage of this.

We need a serious talk about how comfortable we feel about presenting ourselves to the world, and then we need to formulate a plan to take advantage of how easy it is to get eyes on something these days. Perhaps we need to establish a GoFundMe for ad costs or something. We could be more active on social media.

100x this.  It'd be worth it doing a few QoL updates to help files and the website beforehand and getting organized with more helpers, advertising direction, etc.  But I firmly believe there's demand out there for what Arm offers if people could find the game and get over the hurdle of learning a MUD.  Arm also isn't for everyone and it may be worth it to try and just promote RPI MUDs in general to the online tabletop community or whatever other demographic might work in a free way, I need to think about the best way to reach those communities.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Now there's that matter of how you get people to rely on one another, thus drawing them out to speak to and interact with each other.

That's simple. You create need.

We do not have a very good system of reliance in place, and there's a reason for that. While the game world is created to spread need around, the coded game is not nearly as much.

If weapons and armor wear down, you need Salarr more than once in your lifetime. If your clothes become frayed and stained and holey, you need Kadius to maintain your wardrobe. If you want to cross the desert in safety, Kurac is whom you should need to see to outfit you, and then, to replace stuff that becomes too worn to be any good anymore. If herbs dried and became unusable, you'd need to keep tabs on some indie who can go find you some more, and that indie might need to hire the Byn to get them there and back.

Now that food spoils, you need hunters and cooks to provide food for you, or, you need to buy it from NPC vendors. When the GMHs lost their hunting units, they needed indies to take up that slack. If you get poisoned, you need somebody who can provide you cures.

Create dependence between clans, and give indies a place they can fight for in that mix. Create a need for interaction between people and groups. Give each clan in the game their thing, and make sure it's something that's desirable. Make sure that for a higher cost, somebody can get it even if there are no PCs around.

Some of this exists, sure, but simply adding degradation and quality (how long it takes to degrade) to more items would only enhance it. What happens when one Salarri merchant can't handle the volume? Another role opens for a second, and a third, etc, etc.

This game relies on interaction between PCs for it's meat and butter. Enable and encourage interaction. Force it, in some ways. That's how you get people to stop hiding.

And honestly, that's how you get people to keep logging in. Stagnation can be disguised under the simple blanket of mundane, every day life. You're gonna notice the game world not changing less when you need to get new boots, or provide a second delivery to Lord Borsail.

[hyzhenhok]

While there are a ton of valid points here, I think it's important to also make this point: People don't know what MUDs are.

How does that get solved? Well, you should be investigating new ways to advertise, to enable access to the game, and to get new eyes on the game. We older cats have been playing forever, and even when we started, most of us discovered the game by accident, or via a friend. For instance, I was introduced by my younger brother. He learned of it in an AOL chat room.

There has been a massive change in how popular roleplaying as a verbal medium (D&D, etc) rather than a graphical one has become, and how mainstream it has become, and I am annoyed beyond words that we don't have a marketing team capable or having the desire to be taking advantage of this.

We need a serious talk about how comfortable we feel about presenting ourselves to the world, and then we need to formulate a plan to take advantage of how easy it is to get eyes on something these days. Perhaps we need to establish a GoFundMe for ad costs or something. We could be more active on social media.

Something like this is probably the correct "solution" and obliquely identifies what is probably the "problem":  that these days there far are more options and more competitors.

Back in the day, if you wanted to play a free online roleplaying game, there weren't many options besides MUDs. If you wanted to do real-time roleplaying but didn't have friends to play tabletop with, there weren't many options besides MUDs. So you would have a steady stream of people (especially bored teenagers) finding their way to MUDs and finding their way to Armageddon. If you wanted to play a hardcore game with limited progression, PvP and permadeath, there weren't many options besides a subset of MUDs.

These days, it's easier than ever to find a roleplaying group, even if you don't have any friends. Free to play roleplaying games are everywhere, including ones that have people roleplaying. I even see survival-PvP games like Day-Z and Rust as competing somewhat in Arm's space. There's just a lot more competition for the attention of our prospective audience (particularly teenagers and college kids).

That said, Armageddon (and other RPIs), still offers a unique experience unlike anything else. We have a niche. But people are less likely to find the niche now than before. But we've been having this conversation about how to get more new players for 10 years and there's not an easy solution.

[Veselka]

Also, to be honest, I wasn't stating this as a problem to be solved, but as a Pillar of Truth.

Our Playerbase is ostensibly getting older than it was when it first started playing the game. Yes, there are younger people still picking up the hobby, but I'm talking about M-m-m-my generation. Those who started when they were 14-17 and are now 30-35.

Truths:
-We have more things to do
-We have more responsibilities
-Lots of us have wives and husbands and kids and fur-kids
-Lots of us have demanding careers
-Lots of us enjoy playing other video games
-Lots of us enjoy playing PnP games with RL friends, either online or in person
-Lots of us still love ArmageddonMUD and play it when we have the time.

It's not that the Game has changed, but that we as a player base have changed. And that's fine. There's no problem to be solved here, it's just true, a lot of players have less time to play the game than they used to.

But, there are still plenty of players who have plenty of time to play the game. Some of them work remotely, or are able to play while they are at work. Others don't have the same demands (but still different demands I'm sure) that pull them away from the game. Others have plenty of time, but can't devote it consistently.

The entire point of making this thread was mainly a PSA to not expect the game to be moving at breakneck speeds. It never has. It certainly won't now. That's a good thing. When shit happens, it HAPPENS, and it's fun. I see a lot of vague booking on the Discord about 'where is everyone' and 'why is player count 15 on July 4th' and it's like...C'mon people. Let's just have fun with the game, chop each other up with bone swords, and chill on the leaning so heavily on everyone to play the game 24/7, either IC or OOC.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Your well-made point is taken, Veselka, and agreed with. But your PSA prompted some good discussion, too. So you were great, twice!

... we've been having this conversation about how to get more new players for 10 years and there's not an easy solution.

I think there is, but it requires dedicated people to enact it. Using social media to bring attention to yourself is pretty damned simple, in theory. It's the practice that's a bear for some of us. But in simple theory, you could populate your Instagram or Twitter account by simply collecting friends that are all related to RP, and dropping comments on things they post. Having somebody clever with words make those comments just enhances the number of people who come over to see what you're about.

Conceptualizing ads that can be inserted into relevant search results is simple too, but requires funds, which Armageddon has never collected for fucking anything. A community driven crowd-fund could supply the funds we need to get our ads to the places they need to be. A lot of us are doing alright in life and wouldn't mind donating a few bucks a month, and others of us have the skills needed to do graphic design, or offer legal advice, or ... whatever. We couldn't do or afford some of these things when we were younger, but this older playerbase could.

[Barsook]

PSA: We do have a Publicity group that anyone can join. Just use the request tool to join!

It's under: General Discussion Board > Suggestion or Idea

[Barsook]

Conceptualizing ads that can be inserted into relevant search results is simple too, but requires funds, which Armageddon has never collected for fucking anything. A community driven crowd-fund could supply the funds we need to get our ads to the places they need to be. A lot of us are doing alright in life and wouldn't mind donating a few bucks a month, and others of us have the skills needed to do graphic design, or offer legal advice, or ... whatever. We couldn't do or afford some of these things when we were younger, but this older playerbase could.

Agreed 100%.