itt we post ways in which we think the website could be improved

[Lotion]

The current in browser client based on flash does not work. A modern browser MUD client such as DecafMUD would do wonders. https://web.archive.org/web/20201130134540/http://decafmud.stendec.me/ archive link because the official site has some error.

The hostname/port are not so prominently visible on the website. They are bolded but the same color as surrounding text which makes it harder for someone to quickly find. I believe such information should "pop" out more.

Really the biggest thing would be some kind of PLAY NOW button that opens decafmud that autoconnects to arm. For muds with such a thing prominently on their webpage there are some long time active players who exclusively use such a client.

[Maso]

I put in a request about a month ago to offer up redesigning the entire thing, if there is a coder available and willing to tackle it with me. Morgenes and I did the current one (a very long time ago) and it has a lot of problems. I think an update would be a HUGE improvement in terms of conversion AND retention.


- quick play link that works (as Lotion said)
- Better design overall
- a hard working home page that not sells the game in an exciting way, but also clearly directs players (new to Arm, new to Muds, need Help, Community support etc).
- Rethink the structure of the helpfiles and navigation through (a scary one I know, but not that scary) - this is a big one for retention, some Muds even use a Wiki...this could actually be a great potential for Arm for some of the more obscure info.
- More visual, make use of more the artwork we have available
- Big bits of text (which we have a lot of and are key for understanding and learning the game) should always be dark on light for legibility - overall making sure everything is as easily legible as possible is a priority (line length, contrast, text size etc, clear copy etc) - again, maybe a Wiki could be a good solution.
- STRETCH GOAL - Character and account creation via the website (like Starmourn etc etc), I think this has been shot down before with the argument that it creates a visual feel for the game that is then...not in the game...but it clearly works for the bigger muds so the proof of concept is there.

Just to start........

[Veselka]

I think Staff should approve a player to (from inception) put their PC's story online in a video. No other characters or accounts will be name dropped. It can be sent to Staff for approval before being posted. It may be as simple as going hunting, encountering a person in the field, and lay some of the groundwork of the feeling of RPing on ArmageddonMUD. Make it a 2-3 RL month project, with the idea that the PC in question will die at the end of it (Required). After the character has expired, the video can be put live.

Yes, sensitive information might be revealed -- Staff could then follow up with the person and ask if they alright with content from X scene being put into a Youtube video. It can obviously be edited to be a short 1-5 episode sort of web series, following the life of an every day character in Zalanthas, starting with their inception, interaction, and then permanent death.

The fear of IC info leaking can sometimes be overblown -- Most interactions will not lead to anything of the sort, and might provide an accessible window to people as to what an RPI is, what ArmageddonMUD is, and is something we (as players) can point to or link to when getting people interested in the game.

[Fernandezj]

Having a "PLAY NOW" button that works would be leaps and bounds ahead of anything.
The minute I click a mud's page and it lags, or leads to a blank page, or can't connect, I lose interest.
The window is small.

[Veselka]

Eh.

No business (not that this is a business) survives by appealing to 'EVERY CUSTOMER'.

Those that want to find Armageddon will find Armageddon and give it a try. Those that won't, don't, or won't last long playing the game.

That being said, we should certainly set people up for success that are interested in more than clicking a 'play now button'.

[Fernandezj]

Clicking play and it leading to a broken link should be fixed.

Having to click 3 links to find the connect address, should be fixed.

Not sure "playing the game" should be some sort of "they'll find it if they try hard enough" sort of test.

Lets just have no buttons do anything. If they want to find the helpfiles hard enough, they'll figure it out.

[Veselka]

I mean, you should have seen the old website.

This one can certainly be improved upon (particularly having original submissions front and center and accessible and easily applied to). I agree having a 'Play Now' function would be cool.

When I started playing the game, I just plugged in Ginka.armageddon.org:4050 and plunked along, checking out the documentation as I went, making mistakes, and generally learning what the hell was going on by doing, and I'm still here almost 20 years later.

I think, again, we should absolutely set people up for success that are looking for an RPI, have the mindset for an RPI, and understand they'll have to wait up to 24 hours to have their first PC approved. I think having some hurdles weeds out the ChadHackSlash from the actually interested RPers. But that's just IMHO.

[Maso]

I think, again, we should absolutely set people up for success that are looking for an RPI, have the mindset for an RPI, and understand they'll have to wait up to 24 hours to have their first PC approved. I think having some hurdles weeds out the ChadHackSlash from the actually interested RPers. But that's just IMHO.

Agreed! I think the character creation system does a really good job of this (with the up to 24 hours wait), and the whole permadeath thing, once they properly realise it.  I've seen people complain on r/mud that they don't want to have to write a new bio every time they die...so I'd consider them successfully weeded out. 

[triste]

This is similar to the debate about refactoring the codebase in the other thread.

Do we want Armageddon to be vintage with gatekeeping like a out of date† website, or do we want to upgrade the whole shebang?

Other muds with more modern codebases do things like integrate a website or GUI heavily with the mud. An unnamed example in a Cyberpunk setting, for example, allows you to hack and email people through an HTTPS website, while you interact and roleplay in the game. Yes, it is conceivable Armageddon could have character creation like that, but it's a PITA to do it with the current codebase I'll wager.

That said, I am not sure I am all onboard. Sometimes I like that Armageddon is vintage and crappy and gatekept, but like the loss of support for Flash being discussed with the Play Now button, it's possible one day that our game and site are in a state where it cannot be accessed at all.


† I also saw our original website and think the new one still looks modern and fine.

[Maso]

That said, I am not sure I am all onboard. Sometimes I like that Armageddon is vintage and crappy and gatekept, but like the loss of support for Flash being discussed with the Play Now button, it's possible one day that our game and site are in a state where it cannot be accessed at all.

Yeah, I like it being vintage too, but with current trend of being down 10 players on average every year, we don't have many years left maintaining status quo. Maybe 3-4 years before the player base is too low to sustain plots at all.

[triste]

That said, I am not sure I am all onboard. Sometimes I like that Armageddon is vintage and crappy and gatekept, but like the loss of support for Flash being discussed with the Play Now button, it's possible one day that our game and site are in a state where it cannot be accessed at all.

Yeah, I like it being vintage too, but with current trend of being down 10 players on average every year, we don't have many years left maintaining status quo. Maybe 3-4 years before the player base is too low to sustain plots at all.

Staff will ultimately have to decide as it is mostly their effort at stake, but I will say that I think Armageddon has enough distinctly going for it outside of the codebase thematically speaking (permadeath, the long history) for it to survive a refactor. I think some people might argue it was the attempt to also shift the setting of Armageddon that compromised the Arm 2.0 project.

[Maso]

That said, I am not sure I am all onboard. Sometimes I like that Armageddon is vintage and crappy and gatekept, but like the loss of support for Flash being discussed with the Play Now button, it's possible one day that our game and site are in a state where it cannot be accessed at all.

Yeah, I like it being vintage too, but with current trend of being down 10 players on average every year, we don't have many years left maintaining status quo. Maybe 3-4 years before the player base is too low to sustain plots at all.

Staff will ultimately have to decide as it is mostly their effort at stake, but I will say that I think Armageddon has enough distinctly going for it outside of the codebase thematically speaking (permadeath, the long history) for it to survive a refactor. I think some people might argue it was the attempt to also shift the setting of Armageddon that compromised the Arm 2.0 project.

I don't think shifting the entire codebase to something more modern is part of this thread tbh. Just what can be done, if anything, to improve the website. If an idea for the website can't be implemented because it can't be integrated into the game, then it's probably an idea to park.

[Malken]

Updating/Improving the website is a gazillion times easier than updating the codebase.

[Marauder Moe]

I think the look of the website is fine. 

Organization of information/help-files is OK.  It has been steadily improving over time.  I do wonder, though, if maybe we would be better served by a wiki format.  (But that could be because I just recently learned how to host/edit my own wiki and I think it's neat.)

The Original Submissions section, however, is a trainwreck.  A huge pain to browse and we don't even have a submission process anymore.  Reading logs, stories, and seeing artwork in the Original Submissions was a HUGE part of attracting me to this game.  So I think this section of the site is kind of important, and he have no way of knowing how many potential players we lost by not being able to show them how the game can be.

All that said, I understand that web design is not easy, and finding people who are both good at it and want to do it for free is not easy either.

[creeper386]

I think aesthetically the website is mostly fine.

I think usability of the website is not good. One hundred percent if I wasn't introduced to Arm 20 years ago, I'd take a look at the technology from the website and out message board and make the assumption the game isn't worth playing. The outdated look makes me think the MUD might be running a stock codebase from 20 years ago.

Hitting play and seeing a broken flash link does not look good. It's not a hurdle. It's just bad.

I think some of the layout could be improved and modernized while keeping the same look at feel. I definitely think the help files could be reorganized and approved.

One thing that I'd recommend. I've never clicked that "GET LIVE HELP" button and got anything more then "Leave a message". Either it's live help and no one's ever connected, or it's just message a helper, and probably should be rebranded.

The one thing I read about doing dark text on light background ... Please no. Although I think perhaps some things could have better contrasting. I'd much rather light text on dark backgrounds, I  personally find it way easier on the eyes. One of the reasons I'd rather have a discussion on discord then post on the message board.

[Barsook]

RE Helper Chat: That could just link to the Discord Server's help channel. But that would require players to make an account....

[Maso]

RE Helper Chat: That could just link to the Discord Server's help channel. But that would require players to make an account....

Hrmm...I think it's nice for new players to have a 'private-ish' way to get help from a select few, it can be embarrassing to have to post your questions for all to see. 

[creeper386]

RE Helper Chat: That could just link to the Discord Server's help channel. But that would require players to make an account....

Hrmm...I think it's nice for new players to have a 'private-ish' way to get help from a select few, it can be embarrassing to have to post your questions for all to see. 

Sure sure think it could still be a private message or what not, but if that's all it is, that's not "Live" help.

[Fernandezj]

1) Play button should be fixed.
2) Helpfiles. Very regularly in discord Help someone is asking "Is such and such helpfile correct? Because it doesn't line up with the game..." I support the wiki notion.

Those are the only things really wrong with the website. Its actually fairly better than a lot of other games.
Like some games with 100s of players have garbage websites, so its not really a clear connection between website design and players.

But getting players into the game (Play button) and/or providing help with game concepts (helpfiles) are common ways to keep or lose players.

[Barsook]

RE Helper Chat: That could just link to the Discord Server's help channel. But that would require players to make an account....

Hrmm...I think it's nice for new players to have a 'private-ish' way to get help from a select few, it can be embarrassing to have to post your questions for all to see. 

Sure sure think it could still be a private message or what not, but if that's all it is, that's not "Live" help.

How can you make it private without the use of the Helper chat?

[Narf]

RE Helper Chat: That could just link to the Discord Server's help channel. But that would require players to make an account....

Hrmm...I think it's nice for new players to have a 'private-ish' way to get help from a select few, it can be embarrassing to have to post your questions for all to see. 

Also old players, who it is even more embarrassing for sometimes.

[creeper386]

Well, I'm saying it's most people see 'live' and assume it's going to be actually live. Like a chat. Not a messaging system.

[Barsook]

Makes sense and it was "live" at a time, wasn't it?

If that's the case, couldn't a bot for Discord be looked at?

[Dakota]

I will do this with my next PC. Some throw away so staff don't shit themselves. Made to be dead in a few hours of gameplay... but I'll do it and it will be awesome. Swears.

[Riev]

• Fix the Play Now link
• Update how Search works for helpfiles (maybe a fuzzy search, instead of an exact match or contains exact match)
• Live Help should be actually live, or branded to "Message a helper"
• Don't have a Twitter feed link to an account that hasn't been touched in 2 years
• Give Riev 3 karma and a psion

[Shaydee]

Don't have a Twitter feed link to an account that hasn't been touched in 2 years

I'm still curious as to who exactly was running that twitter account, can we petition to revive it? There is a huge D&D/Gaming community on twitter and I am sure we could entice more people to play from there.

[mansa]

Don't have a Twitter feed link to an account that hasn't been touched in 2 years

I'm still curious as to who exactly was running that twitter account, can we petition to revive it? There is a huge D&D/Gaming community on twitter and I am sure we could entice more people to play from there.

That sort of stuff would go into the publicity of the game, rather than day-to-day operations.  Ideas like that could be added to the publicity channel.

[Lotion]

Where and what is the publicity channel?

[Malken]

The publicity channel needs better publicity, that's how bad it is

[Shaydee]

Where and what is the publicity channel?

Yeah I was also going to ask this.

[Barsook]

Don't have a Twitter feed link to an account that hasn't been touched in 2 years

I'm still curious as to who exactly was running that twitter account, can we petition to revive it? There is a huge D&D/Gaming community on twitter and I am sure we could entice more people to play from there.

Was thinking the same.

[Malken]

I think it's a sub forum on the GDB that you need to be invited in to have access to it.

[Barsook]

It is, but I dunno how active it is.

[creeper386]

• Fix the Play Now link
• Update how Search works for helpfiles (maybe a fuzzy search, instead of an exact match or contains exact match)
• Live Help should be actually live, or branded to "Message a helper"
• Don't have a Twitter feed link to an account that hasn't been touched in 2 years
• Give Riev 3 karma and a psion

I support all of these things.

[slipshod]

I posted in the Yet Another Zalanthas Time Converter thread that I thought it was a fine candidate for the otherwise vacant Community > Original Submissions > Tools area of the Armageddon website.

Maso and Fernandezj also suggested that these mudlet tools should go there.

I am sure there are more tools that could be populating that area.

[triste]

I posted in the Yet Another Zalanthas Time Converter thread that I thought it was a fine candidate for the otherwise vacant Community > Original Submissions > Tools area of the Armageddon website.

Maso and Fernandezj also suggested that these mudlet tools should go there.

I am sure there are more tools that could be populating that area.

Someone else asked that the tool I made get added there a while back:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55339.msg1041440.html?PHPSESSID=6uklkr0g6tkirvnv18eoggkqrc#msg1041440

The tool:
https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/

[Malken]

Damn, that azuriolinist graphical prompt is pretty cool.

[Maso]

The tool:
https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/

This should definitely be in there, I dunno how anyone is making characters without it!

[Barsook]

I think a link Mansa and Triste's guide should be on the site.

[triste]

I think a link Mansa and Triste's guide should be on the site.

this is a typo, mansa made that guide with nauta (who many of us miss)

_{^{i can code but my pdf production skills are abysmal}}

[mansa]

I think a link Mansa and Triste's guide should be on the site.

One version of the guide was put on the site at one point, in 2010~2012
http://armageddon.org/intro/chargen.php

[Barsook]

I think a link Mansa and Triste's guide should be on the site.

this is a typo, mansa made that guide with nauta (who many of us miss)

_{^{i can code but my pdf production skills are abysmal}}

Oh. I didn't know that. But now I do.