RE: PROCLAMATION

[Veselka]

Part of the whole economy thing is to bring items in line with expectations about what you are getting when you purchase from Salarr vs an elf.

Most self-taught comparisons are not really going to fit because when folks say "self-taught" in RL, they are assuming all that stuff they read about technique, etc., which represents the failures and accomplishments of folks in the past, gained in books or the internet, don't count as "taught".  In Zalanthas, there is no reading for the average person, so there are no such common resources.  So there is, in fact, a world of difference between having access to a repository of knowledge and not having access.  It isn't about branding.  It is about the Salarr weapon being better, because they have generations of knowledge and trial and error and resources devoted to that one thing.  Your tribal might have generational knowledge, but your tribe will not have been expending the same level of resources to learn how to do things really, really well, because in most tribe cases that would interfere with trying to survive.

As a lone independent with maybe some family knowledge at best, trying to compete against that?  General knowledge will get you to common items.  But where would you get the knowledge to go beyond that?

The oppression that comes with not letting folks read is real.

I agree with all of this, but just to posit a few things:

-Just because Salarr is generationally the best Weapons / Arms dealer in the Known doesn't automatically make their employees somehow 'better', particularly right after joining. I imagine this is maintained through quality control -- they only output what is the best, they throw away anything that is inferior. I imagine it takes a few years (or longer) to mold crafters off the street into Salarri Grade Arms Dealers.

-I agree that even a naturally talented person, without proper training and tutelage, will likely have an aptitude for that area of interest, but won't be a 'Master' by any means. Someone who has natural aptitude for making weapons -- strong hand eye coordination, good muscle memory, good tactile dexterity, intuitiveness and problem solving -- would likely become a Master if they join House Salarr. All of the tools to set them up for success are there. A tribal? They may be good. Their tribal family may even think they are great! But they just don't have access to those tools that set them up for success. They likely rely on bad habits that a skilled master would point out in the first few minutes of watching them work. But -- To them, to their family, they're Da Bomb. Empirically, House Salarr will trump them every day of the week.

-It's a bit of chicken and the egg when it comes to branding. What makes a blade better than another? I imagine it has to do with the quality of the material, combined with the quality of the craftsmanship. There's also a bit of buyer's bias -- Who made it? Some nobody off the street, or House Salarr? This all affects how people would perceive what they are buying, so I don't think 'Branding' doesn't play into it one iota. It's part of the equation, IMHO. Having that stamped emblem of a shield crossed with swords is a bit like a guarantee -- It's House Salarr. It won't be shit. I believe there's a reason they stamp them on almost everything they make, both brand recognition, and brand reassurance, so someone can't claim they own a Salarri Blade and resell it as if it was.

It's good to hear that the economy rebuild helped address some of these inconsistencies.

[CoreyTX]

"Most self-taught comparisons are not really going to fit because when folks say "self-taught" in RL, they are assuming all that stuff they read about technique, etc"

When it comes to learning, reading is one of the poorest forms of retention.  All of the better forms of learning can be achieved by anyone in Zalanthas?


https://images.app.goo.gl/wgb2xAHrPCR5niBP9

The current stance on "no one can do it better then GMH house" has had and will continue to have some impacts that Stifel roleplay and gameplay.

It seems the rules/staff are enforcing monopolies (Kadius, Salaar, ect) from an OOC standpoint. I think it would be better for competition to be handled ICly once a name is big enough and gets out? While a very valid point that GMH's have had 100's of years to perfect their craft, saying (and enforcing through policy) that no one else can ever get close to them is a limiting stance? Allowing competition to be able to exist is a good thing for the game, roleplay and plots?

Right now if an GMH Agent pisses off a Noble, outside of having the agent offed, the Noble is still forced to deal with them because there is no alternative?  There is little to no consequence for their actions?  Instead would it not be better if a Noble had alternatives to go to even if the alternative did not produce as high a quality, but close to it?   

There are many examples where a company has a complete hold on an industry/craft only to be challenged by competition. Look at how many knife companies there are?  Even back in the day under tyranny rule there was competition among the merchants and craftsman. Can this be handled IG and not through a game OOC policy?

I was reluctant to mention this, but I know a real life self taught Bladesmith. Guy Harris (a forged in fire champion) is a real life self taught master weaponsmith.  He didn't attend an elite weapon smithing school. I know this because he is a friend and his skills evolved over time through experimentation and design/drawling's he made first. His access to tools was also limited working out of his garage.


https://www.statesman.com/NEWS/20160923/Austin-knife-maker-Guy-Harris-competing-on-History-Channel-TV-show

In summary, what seems to be an OOC policy enforcement of Monopolies of the GMH's/product craftmanship should be reconsidered so that the crafting aspect of the game dose not stagnate as well as the desire for people to play a crafting class unless its in a GMH.  I would think that most game producers would like the idea of players having a means to create high quality vanity items, thus adding content to the game and reducing the burden on the arm staff to do it.  People/crafters can, through doing/experimentation, learn from their poorer quality products/mistakes and make improvements on them over time. There are plenty of real life examples of this.

[mansa]

I'm content with maintaining the fantasy of the Zalanthas world and the hierarchy/knowledge being locked behind certain worldbuilding pillars.

[williamson]

Part of the whole economy thing is to bring items in line with expectations about what you are getting when you purchase from Salarr vs an elf.

Most self-taught comparisons are not really going to fit because when folks say "self-taught" in RL, they are assuming all that stuff they read about technique, etc., which represents the failures and accomplishments of folks in the past, gained in books or the internet, don't count as "taught".  In Zalanthas, there is no reading for the average person, so there are no such common resources.  So there is, in fact, a world of difference between having access to a repository of knowledge and not having access.  It isn't about branding.  It is about the Salarr weapon being better, because they have generations of knowledge and trial and error and resources devoted to that one thing.  Your tribal might have generational knowledge, but your tribe will not have been expending the same level of resources to learn how to do things really, really well, because in most tribe cases that would interfere with trying to survive.

As a lone independent with maybe some family knowledge at best, trying to compete against that?  General knowledge will get you to common items.  But where would you get the knowledge to go beyond that?

The oppression that comes with not letting folks read is real.

I think Brokkr provides a great explanation of the difficulties faced to obtain detailed crafting knowledge in Zalanthas.

However, even if you obtain the knowledge and craft comparable goods, you still face the substantial burden of competing against a large and ruthless monopoly. I would warn you to be careful for what you wish.

Don't forget to add a good dash of common sense to what you're trying to make. I imagine the staff have different levels of difficulty base on your goal. The staff will often let you try (and fail) when presented with sound logic. The odds of crafting comparable jewelry to decades of Kadian diamond cutting techniques seem very low. However, tying a cord around a glow crystal to compete against House Kurac seems obtainable. Just remember IC actions often have IC consequences.