Combat

[Stroker]

Well it should be, since we -are- the sex mud.

[Carnage]

Fact is, people bringing this idea up keep talking realism, fine, be realistic, un-armored combat is far more dangerouse and draining then armored, I know, I also fight in the local live steel group, very light armor if any and real swords, axes, maces etc.

I would much, much rather be in a one on one swordfight/duel unarmored than armored. Frankly, getting hit with a massive broadsword is going to disable you. Take a cross slash to the shoulder, your collarbone and shoulder bone are going to break. Then there's the bleeding and the sword going through and the death. These are heavy weapons, not little toys. Wearing armor isn't going to do much when you get hit by a massive sword except lessen it. Depending on where you're hit with that same cross slash, you'll still probably put a big dent in that armor and break your clavicle. Once that happens you're going to be in a lot of pain, but the adrenaline is going to numb it a bit. Chances are, with all that heavy armor, you're going to stumble, lose your balance, and fall. At that point, there goes the killing blow. If you do manage to recover, though, your performance is still going to be damn sloppy due to the pain, demoralizing factor of being hit, and having to put more effort into using that arm (if you're even able to). At that point you're going to die anyway.

With armor on, your ability to parry isn't going to be as quick nor as strong, due to the added weight. It's also going to be harder to hold up deflecting that sword. With armor off, your movement is going to be faster and you can be stronger. In a one on one fight, where you want to make sure your opponent is dead, you need all of that mobility.

In the middle of a war though is when you really need armor. There's so much chaos that no one is going to come make sure you're dead. They'll assume one hit, you're down and hopefully dead and will move on rather than leave themselves open to give you that finishing blow. At that point you can either lay down and pretend to be dead (would you even be able to get up with all that weight) or be an idiot, get up, and get killed. Your choice. Unarmored, one hit and you're likely dead.

To summarize, armor is moot in a one on one confrontation where someone wants you dead. The first person to get a good, solid hit is generally going to be the victor and they'll quickly finish you off. Why not stay armorless and gain more mobility and a better ability to deflect and dodge? In war, however, it's most likely going to be what saves you rather than your skill with a sword.

[Lazloth]

The majority of the rhetoric in this thread is pointless in a comparison to Armageddon.  The real-world evolution of armor was in direct correlation to real-world evolution of warfare tactics, inclusive of ranged and mounted tactics, etc.; what Carnage says regarding armor finding its place mainly in largescale battle is certainly valid.

To return to the original tenet, were stamina impacted by combat, I believe you would soon see cookie-cutter fighters of a given racial paradigm, or suicidal statwhores at creation.  I vote thumbs-down.

[Rindan]

The thing to remember is that on Zalanthas neither the weapons nor the armor is made of metal, and the world is extremely hot.  So, take all your talk of realistic armor this and that and throw it out the window because it has little to do with Zalanthas.  Zalanthas is pretty open to the imagination because there are no human societies that I know that got to Zalanthas level of warfare and technology in a desert environment that didn't also develop metal working.  If the fact that this is a desert doesn't mess up the equation, the fact that there is absolutely no common metal working does.  The world is pretty much open to creative interpretation, and creative interpretation has made a world where (at least in Allanak) being nearly unarmored is the way to go.  I don't think the Allanaki vision of warfare is totally unreasonable considering how deadly the weapons they use are (obsidian), yet how weak and heavy the armor is.  It might very well be just to give up that little protection for a chance to avoid a crippling blow that ignores whatever armor your scrape together.

I personally would rather not see stamina changes unless it was apart of a greater overall picture.  Just throwing stamina into a fight isn't going to do much in my opinion other then result in more dead people.  Once you get into higher level of combat, combat is completely defensive in nature, instead of offensive.  If you have ever had a kick ass warrior, you will realize that your ability to defend yourself far outstrips your ability to hand out ass kickings.  When you fight a person who is equally as powerful, you will sit there for literally hours not being able to kill each other.  This isn't how I think it should be, but stamina changes would not change this.  It would simply make it so that the first person to code wise run out of stamina looses.

I would much rather see combat tweaked to lower offensive capabilities.  I would much rather see combat more about offense then defense.  In my ideal world, if two lightly armored warriors of great skill went at it, they might spend a few minutes fighting, but when one of them finally lands a blow it will be crippling.  If two heavily armed and armored opponents went at it, they would land many weaker blows against each other and slowly wear each other down.  

I see stamina changes as doing neither.  I imagine it would just result in more fights scattering to the winds before someone can be a victor in an attempt to get out before the stamina is out.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I remember that everyone thought that everyone would use clubs when the stun portion got put in. This has not happened.

I think folks need to stop worrying if everything is going to be abused. Put the shit in, or don't, based soley upon merit. All this talk of twinking and abuse is basically bullshit. People will develop styles, and then, they will leave those styles, as they discover what they do. And everyone is not going to do the same thing. The abusers are going to be a minimal problem.

This is a simple fact.

[Anonymous]

I say leave it alone, I rather enjoy just rp'ing when my char is tired and what not....
At the moment stats don't really matter much...a change like this will make one of them matter alot when it comes to combat.

[Anonymous]

I agree that a fatigue penalty for combat would be more "realistic"--just make it minor for playability, and maybe ramp it up a little when people get use to it.

What I really hate is the infinite parries a warrior can seemingly dole out.  I'd like to see a restriction on the number of successful parries possible in a given timeframe, regenerated maybe once every five or ten RL seconds.

[LoD]

Alright, so you want combat to drain stamina.

Well, how about crafting?  How about arching?  How about casting?  How about walking around the city on a hot day?  How about haggling with a merchant, that can get awful tiring.  How about we make your stamina just always go down at a constant rate whenever you're not actually resting to represent the effort it takes to do whatever you're doing plus penalties stacked on top of that for all other actions.

There are many things in the game that take physical and mental effort to maintain, but as many others have stated, the affect it may have on the playability would be more of a hindrance than a benefit.  It is much akin to the idea of 'wounds' from battle.  A PC should be in charge of his/her self on how tired they are getting from fighting.  The less things that code governs over our characters movements, actions, and abilities the better.  It is just another restriction that would promote 'beating the code' than reinforce role play.

I say to leave the code the way it stands, and let players govern their own degree of weariness in any given situation.  Sparring is different from war, which is different from hunting, which is different from fighting a sparring dummy, which is different from running through forms.  Unless you propose a way for the code to recognize every possible scenario and the subtle differences in how much energy is being expended during these fights, I think it should remain unchanged.

LoD

[Carnage]

Everything he said in his post.

A-freakin'-men. I agree 100%.