Improving Luir's Playability

[Barsook]

I don't want to derail the other topic with my reply as I do want a discussion on improving the playability of Luir's. I want to start with this quote:

At the moment Luirs is in a good position to fill the gap of a lack of a second city location in the game in the very same way Tuluk did with its lack of true crime opportunities . Staff need to continue to push the separation of Luirs and allanak in some shape or form and continue to build that place up to provide city based character a rich place to play as an alternative to allanak with its own distinct politics and concerns that don't just include allanak.   

I agree here, give more reason for Luir's to get growing. It does it's own culture, politics, and government but it does lack true crime opportunities. Here's what I don't get: Doesn't Luir's have the Bailey? Shouldn't it be the lawless area?

[gotdamnmiracle]

Just to clarify you mean crimcode free area, right? Their proximity to gates kinda throws a monkey wrench in the whole not being observed thing.

[Barsook]

I think so. It's hard to believe in all of these years, I really haven't had a character that had success in Luir's. I been too much of a city slicker I guess.

[gotdamnmiracle]

I think so. It's hard to believe in all of these years, I really haven't had a character that had success in Luir's. I been too much of a city slicker I guess.

I get it, man. I think it's the tone and size of the place still. Luirs is still very much  just a trading post in the middle of the desert. Like the northern portion of the map is just two gas stations in succession. Luirs only recently turned into a huge merchant house orgy, but it's tone never really changed. Despite the foot traffic it's still supposed to feel like, I think, a town of like 300 people. So being the town thief is a short-lived occupation.

It also doesn't help that Luirs has a tendency to explode (build out of stone, guys. Christ) and and staff incentivizes temporary stay as shown in the minimal lackluster housing (tents, shacks). That isn't a statement about the implementation of the housing btw, I love the tents and stuff, but rather in a world where you can live in a guarded apartment building tents with trunks is not preferred. Honestly I wish we had tent cities like that in other parts of the Known to show the strata of the social classes in different places. That whole zone in Luirs would fit perfectly if copy-pasted into the east side, Rinth for example.

[Dresan]

I don't think Luirs needs a lawless area. Frankly this was an issue with Tuluk too and due to IC factors crime was even worse state in tuluk, I just made the comparison between the two because of that.

What Luirs need to continue be its own place and perhaps even in open conflict with Allanak. Remember Tuluk is not gone, marching to attack Luirs is not something Allanak can probably do without forcing Tuluk to act. After that crime could come in the form of raiders and thieves acting with the support of Allanak. While Luirs might have its own thieves/raiders would work on their behalf. Some groups in locations like Redstorm and Rinth might even have shifting alliances or neutrality.   Players and staff would just need to make peace with the fact that its okay to lose some or all virtual stuff, especially when PCs are still alive and have access to banks.

In fact staff should be jumping at and even bending over backwards for any opportunity to nuke warehouse inventories of established clans/tribes. As these events cause very real crisis within these groups that the players would need to resolve. It would be nice for my indie not to get turned down for trade just because clans/tribes have forests worth of everything in their warehouses. It also might be interesting to see players scrambling to buy food/water because their clans/tribe can't temporarily provide.   

[Barsook]

Just a thought here: what is the theme of Luir's? Survival? Because I'm getting that feeling from the power struggle between the GMHs, Kurac's crafts, how many times Luir's was rebuilt, and the people that live there and around.

[SpyGuy]

Luir's is one of my favorite game areas because to me it's always been a crossroads.  Ok no longer with Tuluk but it's still a place that you can still find all sorts of people in whether they're Indy hunter/gatherers, GMH, tribals or desert elves and a scattering of others trying to stay out of the city or on their way north.  While you do have power players who reside there (namely GMH family and senior employees) you aren't bowing every other step to some silk clad noble or Templar.  I feel it has a Wild West vibe where the powers that be are trying to keep some order, the white hat sheriffs that will try keeping bandits and rogue magickers from disrupting travel and trade. 

This is in contrast with Red Storm or Morin's which are located near valuable resources but still very small, fringe and lawless. Luir's is more of a safe haven for traveler's and indies just starting out. 

[Dresan]

If Morin's had apartments the Luirs/Morin area is probably the only places I would play at this point.

Though of course that might change depending on how often staff intend to animate Morin's tuluki soldiers on behalf of Luirs interests.

[Hauwke]

Just a thought here: what is the theme of Luir's? Survival? Because I'm getting that feeling from the power struggle between the GMHs, Kurac's crafts, how many times Luir's was rebuilt, and the people that live there and around.

In my mind, Luir's is basically Zalanthan Barter Town.

[Dresan]

If Luirs is barter town, Redstorm is a Pirate Haven.

[Greve]

In my mind, the place will just always be an oversized HQ for Kurac (and, in recent years, the Council/Garrison, which is functionally the same thing as when it was just Kurac/Fist). You can play an indie hunter out of Luir's as well, but it's kind of a tame existence because then you pretty much just live for the sake of killing animals. Luir's completely lacks the social dynamics and geographical diversity that makes for a healthy playing sphere. It's a place where you play a GMH employee or Garrison soldier, and that's all that it really supports. I don't feel like I can go and play a citizen of Luir's unless that's an incidental feature of a character who is, before all else, a GMH or Garrison member. I like that in Allanak, I can play a character whose fundamental concept is to belong to some facet of the city's intricate society. If I think of 'a guy who comes from Luir's', it has no meaning to me. While the place has history, and technically has a culture on paper, it has absolutely no culture on the playing field. The place has no personality whatsoever, it's just some rooms and shops.

[X-D]

Seconding Greve.

[Dresan]

Yeah, Luirs also has no options for dissidence within the area.

Thanks to Redstorm, Rinth(which is lacking in love) and various political interests Allanak allows for a more interesting dynamic. 

Adding apartments to Morins could help with that problem but I sincerely feel that staff prefer to funnel players into sponsored clans and tribes, or at the very least working for one of their their sponsored roles.

Unfortunately, the very best possible outcome after joining a clan for me is afking in the compound with my PC's mind barrier up while I play another game on the side.

[Decameron]

I feel as though that's an unfair assessment, and if we can ever write off an area of the game as lacking in personality or culture, then that's a failure on us as players. Looking over some of these comments, it's a wonder why the argument isn't made that we just close up everything but Allanak, as the same comments could be said of literally anywhere else in the game.

But, to offer a few counter-points against the argument, off the top of my head:

Luirs is surrounded by numerous tribes, various resources and yes, does harbor both the Garrison and GMH employees, in the center of the Known. There is a lot of exposure to very diverse cultures within the game.

It has had its shit kicked in, multiple times. It has a tendency to explode. It's been conquered by various invaders and may or may not of once held a rather famous resident which might of had some influence on the naming.

While an Allanaki citizen can cower behind their 'benevolent' Templar when the magickers come knocking, with Luirs there's no blue-robed, no gemmed defense, no super red / black / fire-kank robe waiting to save the day. It's just you, normie, and a bunch of other normies (maybe). Good luck.

It has a pretty steady PC population, despite having issues with the playability, but it is not, nor will it ever be New-New Tuluk.

Anyway, I've found the last half of this thread a little discouraging, as its slowly trickled into 'Luirs .. Meh', rather than addressing any actual concerns with the playability. I think Luirs has a little more personality than we're giving it credit for here. If you don't know what a Luirs citizen might entail, then you might benefit from spending a little more time thinking of your character's background.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

I think Luir's has had it's share of drama and excitement. Those who just don't see it probably haven't been active there recently, anyway.

[Dresan]

It has a pretty steady PC population, despite having issues with the playability

Just Curious. What do you mean by this?

[Decameron]

I meant that the original purpose of this thread was to address playability issues, hence the title. However, I am having a difficult time seeing where the issues lie. I was pointing out that despite these perceived issues, there is still a decent population of PCs.

I guess I would forward this question to the OP, as to what those playability issues are and what are the solutions, rather than "I don't like Luirs"? I am attempting to drive at what those issues with playability are so that we can try to address them.

In regards to your particular response though:

Yeah, Luirs also has no options for dissidence within the area.

Thanks to Redstorm, Rinth(which is lacking in love) and various political interests Allanak allows for a more interesting dynamic. 

Adding apartments to Morins could help with that problem but I sincerely feel that staff prefer to funnel players into sponsored clans and tribes, or at the very least working for one of their their sponsored roles.

Unfortunately, the very best possible outcome after joining a clan for me is afking in the compound with my PC's mind barrier up while I play another game on the side.

What is the 'more interesting dyanmic'? If indie is what you're going for - Luirs might actually afford you more opportunities. What exactly could be provided to Luirs to make this different from Allanak? What do you feel that adding an apartment to Morin's would accomplish? Allow you to go AFK in an apartment in Morins, instead of Luirs, instead of Allanak, instead of Redstorm?

[Gentleboy]

Would a job like salt grebbing or sifting make the outpost more...liveable. I personally saw the outpost as less of a permanent place and more of an extended stay kinda place. No one really calls Luir's home. It's always just either south or north of where everyone is from.

[Is Friday]

Would a job like salt grebbing or sifting make the outpost more...liveable. I personally saw the outpost as less of a permanent place and more of an extended stay kinda place. No one really calls Luir's home. It's always just either south or north of where everyone is from.

Where the south is lacking in "things to craft" to support a skills based crafter -- the north has long been the training ground for merchants or crafters. You have available to you a slew of hunters/gatherers who can retrieve for your PC anything you need, if you don't want to get it yourself. Virtually every crafting skill is supported in the north.

I don't think a "job" such as clay grebbing or salting would be very necessary.

Although it would be kinda cool to have a "miner" occupation, just for flavor.

edit: Yes, Luir's is "the north". You start with a northern accent if you chargen there.

[Dresan]

What is the 'more interesting dyanmic'? If indie is what you're going for - Luirs might actually afford you more opportunities. What exactly could be provided to Luirs to make this different from Allanak? What do you feel that adding an apartment to Morin's would accomplish? Allow you to go AFK in an apartment in Morins, instead of Luirs, instead of Allanak, instead of Redstorm?

Morins provides some good afking spots already, no worries about that

Morin apartments would allow is for  mundane indies to play in a way that might potentially piss off luirs and still have a family, friends and life somewhere in the north.

Its off to Allanak or Redstorm unless you don't mind living out of your backpack or a communal space the moment the garrison doesn't like you anymore.

That feels a bit limiting if you want to play in the north, and probably why all many of the baddies in the area are often magickal in nature. 

Just to add I do like Luirs a lot and with its approach lately, I would still play from there and choose it as a starting location even without the option for dissidence

[Lizzie]

I dunno, maybe I'm playing it wrong. But I have no problem playing characters who are from Luir's, but not members of Kurac or the Garrison.

I've played a few of them.

[Lotion]

Why is access to save rooms so important for playability? In my limited experience it normally adds more inventory management busywork because you want to get the most out of every little scrap you have instead of just offloading it quickly and going out to do more fun stuff.

[Vex]

Why is access to save rooms so important for playability? In my limited experience it normally adds more inventory management busywork because you want to get the most out of every little scrap you have instead of just offloading it quickly and going out to do more fun stuff.

Because people love banging, in apartments full of scrab guts and bone piles. It's romantic, and romance, is a core game experience. Obviously.

[Kyviantre]

Why is access to save rooms so important for playability? In my limited experience it normally adds more inventory management busywork because you want to get the most out of every little scrap you have instead of just offloading it quickly and going out to do more fun stuff.

Because for those of us who tend to have strength as our dump stat, having a place to drop things means we can keep trinkets.

Sometimes it is nice to decorate a space that is your own.

Sometimes it is nice to invite people round to visit your home/murderhole (always fingers crossed for the former!), because it is good for immersion to have 'the place I go to after a hard day' rather than it being purely virtual, because it can feel like otherwise you're sleeping in the gutter (and you're not playing a character that would likely do that).

Sometimes it is useful to have a space your character thinks is private to do naughty things - scheming, illegal spice, spanking your elf, banging someone you aren't in the same clan with (for pleasure, manipulation, or future profit), corrupting an Aide to the darkside, dramatically revealing that you're going to blackmail someone, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes it is nice to feel superior to those homeless people who sleep in tavern dormitories.

Sometimes it is beneficial to have a space to log into that is, in theory, 'safe', rather than logging straight into somewhere RP could be going on, in a way that might make it odd that you just logged into it.

It isn't all hawt sex (or at least, if it is for everyone else, I'm being left out! ).  Some of us like the immersion, and some like my poor strength ass, need somewhere to put a spare change of clothes down because we can't carry two sets at once - sure, risk of them getting pinched, but such is life!

[Lotion]

I've heard you can store items at nenyuk by giving them a thing and then they give you a ticket to retrieve it. Do people not just put stuff in a large bag and then hand it over to them? You still need to keep the ticket safe but a ticket weighs a LOT less than a large bag full of random stuff.
There's the two upstairs curtain' rooms, one of which is absolutely meant for mudsex.

[Dresan]

Not sure the players willing to invest time in Morin and other isolated location generally have mudsex as the primary goal.

And if they did...so what? 

At least they are sticking around and trying to make the game interesting in their own way at this point.

[X-D]

Storing things with nenyuk has a VERY low weight limit. Could you store an iron ring...yes...bone sword...likely not.

[gotdamnmiracle]

You could always get an outfit tailored and just carry around the tickets and 200 coins.

[Spiderman]

Luir's is basically Zalanthas' pc population on spring break.  Away from the parents, away from the boss, getting wild on with exotic people where you can push questionable morality as far as you must.  You can go to the casino, you can gamble, get high, you can do things with people from far away places, and dabble in crazy things.

Personally, I find it hard for me, as a player, to sustain my wanting that environment nonstop.  I literally can't have it as a base of operations too many characters in a row (usually 2), for that reason.