The Argument for the Restoration of Tuluk

[gotdamnmiracle]

It is my opinion that there is not enough attention and support in location such as Rinth, Redstorm, Morins and to a lesser extend Luirs to make people feel like they can play there and not feel like their missing out something by not having access to Allanak location/people/clans.

Perhaps the reason we view that as bad is a perception that focus should be spread evenly? It's only occurring to me now, but perhaps those places exist for more solo type players and the clans within them get less (in my experience as well) support because that's the design. If this is the case the reopening of tuluk won't cause any issues in regards to staff oversight, I guess.

[Lotion]

Perhaps the reason we view that as bad is a perception that focus should be spread evenly? It's only occurring to me now, but perhaps those places exist for more solo type players and the clans within them get less (in my experience as well) support because that's the design. If this is the case the reopening of tuluk won't cause any issues in regards to staff oversight, I guess.

Luirs has a lot of staff supported clans.
* Garrison
* Kurac
* Salarr
* Kadius

The tablelands also has many clans that have roles that players are required to apply for via the request tool instead of through a telnet client:
* Arabet
* Al'Sek (especially their elementalists)
* Sun Runner elementalists

I hope if Tuluk ever does open it will be after Cenyr is more completed. Compare the dancer or the eat echos for the food from that one vendor to the rest of Cenyr and you'll realize how incomplete it is. Something the Gower brothers said was an important lesson they learned from developing RuneScape was (major paraphrasing) "it was most important for them to ensure that the things already in the game should be completed before new stuff got added on".

[th3kaiser]

Tuluk isn't new however. It's built and the documentation is written. Cenyr is probably NEVER getting fleshed out, as an FYI.

[Dresan]

Location such as Rinth and Redstorm have increased dependencies on Allanak to help with be a satisfying place to play from. Its to the point where once a character is cut off from southside allanak for whatever reason, these places just become unbearable to play as interactions are limited.  Like most places this comes and goes though.

While i am not suggestion the support should come in the form of more clans and sponsored rolls to these places, I am saying that plots should be broader in scope, at least generate some interest in having people visit these places once in a while to see what is going on.

Re-opening Tuluk will not help with this situation, and in fact the water down support and players in Allanak may further making a bad situation even worse. Tuluk without massive support would be no different then redstorm or morins, this support will need to be taken from other places and would need to be ongoing. Additionally outside an HRPT even these location will not generate any fun for each other.

I just don't see the state of Allanak right now and think and think, yep, this is what we need is more of...

[Heade]

The only thing Tuluk can provide is an alternative city based location to play which i agree could possibly help with game burn out.

It seems like you're completely discounting almost the entire point made in the original post that was reiterated by HeeBeeGB, that it isn't "just an alternative city location".

There are multiple ways in which not having Tuluk impacts the game on a daily basis. It isn't the same game world without it. Many of those points were made in the OP and HeeBeeGB's post, so there is little point to reiterate them here.


It's also important to note that we WILL get an influx of old players if Tuluk opens. The question isn't if we will. It's just how many we will get. I personally know of about 10 people that will return almost instantly if Tuluk reopens, and I'm far from a social butterfly OOC, so I'm sure there are plenty of others that I don't know about.

[th3kaiser]

I feel like Dresan is just arguing the opposite of the initial reasoning to close Tuluk. It didn't make Allanak busier and more vibrant. There's quite a few of us who just don't much want to play there these days and Tuluk gives both another option and in built conflict based on nationalism that just isn't present in the game today. We lost more than we gained when it closed. Basically, I disagree.

[Dresan]

Outside of HRPT event it is just another city location. Yes different culture, people and flavor.

But I don't agree with the belief that this will be the enemy allanak needs, and improve the game's current situation.  I used to play there for years and a random gemmer roaming the plains was the most trouble we got from Allanak most days.

[Heade]

Outside of HRPT event it is just another city location. Yes different culture, people and flavor.

But I don't agree with the belief that this will be the enemy allanak needs, and improve the game's current situation.  I used to play there for years and a random gemmer roaming the plains was the most trouble we got from Allanak most days.

The thing is, it isn't about whether or not you, or any other individual player liked playing in Tuluk. No one is asking you to play there. There will be plenty of other people who will go play there in your stead. If you're thinking it will potentially take players away from you to go play there, yes, it may take some away. But you've already lost a lot of them by having it closed to begin with. There will be more players playing in the game. Not just in Tuluk, but in Allanak, too. Many of Tuluk's players that left DID alternate between characters played in Allanak and Tuluk, so while some players might play less in Allanak than they do now, other players that you don't currently get to play with at all will potentially mitigate those losses.

Part of the reason you didn't see a whole lot of southerners up around Tuluk is because...TULUK! It was populated, and thus dangerous for southerners and gemmers to be there. More recently, since Tuluk has been closed to players, you see things which I consider to be unthematic to the game happening up around Tuluk. You see southern hunters all the time, you see groups of gemmed walking along the fucking north road, right next to a Tuluki fort. Seriously. They don't even act nervous to be there. They're stopping to sniff flowers and stuff. lol

People don't understand the game world they're living in any more. And you can't expect them to. There was more reason to deal with neutral parties from the wastes, like the Tan Muark, or other exotic traders because they were more capable of getting goods from the northlands than your run of the mill southern hunter. Now, without any clear and present danger, that isn't the case. Everyone, regardless of accent can travel to every corner of the known without any real(read: PC) threat.

Tuluk not being there has diminished the RP of the entire game. I could spend all day writing up a list of how the ripples of Tuluk's closing harmed RP opportunities and the overall flavor of the gameworld, but that document would be so long that no one would read it.

[Dresan]

I just don't agree with all the arguments made for opening Tuluk.

If people want to re-open tuluk so they can play tuluki bards and hunters, yeah its great for that, so is morins/luirs I would argue with some better apartments added. However, I do understand clan support/plots is much more important now then it used to be.

However, if people want to re-open tuluk so they can experience the copper war or think that it will make Allanak or any of the other locations better in any way, that is not likely. The level of efforts that made Tuluk/Allanak great are event we haven't seen since the volcano tossing war.

Tuluk will just be another city location with its own flavor and culture.

[Heade]

Tuluk will just be another city location with its own flavor and culture.

No, it won't. The area around Tuluk will also be dangerous for southerners, unlike now. There are numerous changes to the game with an active Tuluk. There are tons of implications that you're refusing to acknowledge.

If you don't think those changes in attitude and culture that would reverberate across the gameworld are worth what you perceive as Tuluk taking people away from other areas of the gameworld that you enjoy, that is a valid argument(albeit one mitigated by gaining new players). But to say that it has no effect on the rest of the gameworld is a disingenuous claim at best if you played for long before the closing of Tuluk.

[Lotion]

Cenyr is probably NEVER getting fleshed out, as an FYI.

I really hope it does. If the rest of that little spot had as much love put into it as the dancer NPC I can only imagine how interesting it would be. Her mdesc is miles ahead of anything else I saw in there.

[Dresan]

Sorry Heade, just going to agree to disagree. 

Basically I would rather just see a gith fire nation attack making every location more interesting to play in rather than see another city location (abeit a very interesting one) open up to provide yet more taverns for us to sit in and talk about nothing. 

I also find it funny that people seem to forget that the staff didn't just roll over and close Tuluk rather there was also a concentrated effort by a number of players that refused to play in Tuluk after the changes that occurred during the war. The numbers in Tuluk never increased despite the staff putting so much effort in making the place interesting.  I don't know the number of people Tuluk had when it closed but it hadn't been in good shape for a long time. 

[Heade]

Sorry Heade, just going to agree to disagree. 

Basically I would rather just see a gith fire nation attack making every location more interesting to play in rather than see another city location (abeit a very interesting one) open up to provide yet more taverns for us to sit in and talk about nothing. 

I also find it funny that people seem to forget that the staff didn't just roll over and close Tuluk rather there was also a concentrated effort by a number of players that refused to play in Tuluk after the changes that occurred during the war. The numbers in Tuluk never increased despite the staff putting so much effort in making the place interesting.  I don't know the number of people Tuluk had when it closed but it hadn't been in good shape for a long time.

Tuluk was well-populated for a long time(many years). If the numbers dropped in the last year it was opened, we should ask ourselves what about Tuluk changed in that last year or two.

[HeeBeeGB]

I can see both Dresan and Heade's point of view.

I agree that simply opening up Tuluk unchanged, or changed only on the surface level, will land us in exactly the same position we were in when Tuluk closed in the first place.

It will take both proactive Staff, and proactive players, to ignite the area. It will take a seismic shift in the geography of the location, as well as the documentation for it to be surgically effective.

LauraMars pointed out something important -- Tuluk isn't an easy undertaking. It is, or at least was, massive, both in scope and in management.

Numbers should be broken down thusly:
1-2 Active Templars
2-3 Active Nobles

Right there, you have 4-5 active leadership roles. This isn't an easy feat, even for Allanak to manage, and for our current player base to manage. However, lurking in the depths of the current player base, and circling around the outskirts of the player base, are people who would willingly jump for a leadership based role in Tuluk but would not apply for one in Allanak. Anecdotal, of course, I do not have hard numbers here. Just as anecdotal are 'the players who left the game and would return if Tuluk re-opened'. Would they? Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would for 1 PC, and not forevermore. Maybe these players are still currently playing, just not as often, with breaks in-between PCs, or maybe they wouldn't return at all, even if Tuluk re-opened.

Moving on, you have:
1 aide/aide-type per Noble
2-5 Soldier-Types (Perhaps ameliorated by a volunteer militia / Levy as suggested earlier, aligning the numbers)
3-5 Independents / Citizens / Bards / Those with Stake in Tuluk, but are not sponsored roles

Exempt:
All PCs that would float in and out of Tuluk, but aren't 'The Hardcore of Tuluk'. Certainly not the whole player base, there are of course 'The Hardcore of Allanak' that do not ever or rarely leave it (Nobles, Templars, Aides, and so on).

So in total, we're looking at 9-15+ players for an 'active Tuluk'. When you look at numbers like that, it doesn't seem terribly daunting (at least to me). If that meant the closure of some tribal aspects of the game, I would happily see that happen in order to reintroduce Tuluk as a foil to Allanak.

The problem is -- It's a matter of priorities. If we prioritize new tribes of independents (Two Moons, Tan Muark, as examples), new criminal organizations (Dust Runners, Crimson Wind), we push chunks of players into these roles. Spread among the groups just mentioned, I am sure, are around 10 players. If we were to prioritize Tuluk, and reprioritize other aspects of the world, we could certainly free up the player-space to manage.

However, this does not address Staff oversight and management. Though LauraMars points to Staff being LARGE, it is smaller than it has been in the past. With the current amount of Staff, adding Tuluk and up to 3 new clans to manage isn't a 'poof, magic' kind of moment. It is a lot to ask of Staff. It would require likely bringing on new (or old) Staff, shifting priorities and responsibilities, and possibly a new (or old) Administrator as well. That is neither easily done, or easily considered, even.

Nothing worth achieving was easy. Do I think Tuluk is necessary? Clearly, it has been closed, and considered unnecessary, but I think it is integral to driving conflict in the game world of ArmageddonMUD.I would say the game world as a total has suffered for Tuluk's closure. Allanak has suffered for it, by not having a foil to compare itself to, and by driving insular plots among the powerful against one another, having nowhere to direct outwards. The conflict levels of the world have suffered for it, not having the age old conflict of North vs South to rely on and use to plot advantage among sponsored roles. Luirs has suffered for it, by no longer being a driving wedge between North and South and all of the political schemings involved there. The mystery of the world has suffered for it, as those in Allanak need no longer live in question of what the Northerners are up to, if they are plotting war or revenge or assassination. The forward motion of the world has suffered for it, where plots and characters now run in tighter and tighter circles, repeating motions and concepts, and having little distinction between literal years of gameplay. Player agency has suffered for it -- Why try to build an empire if it might just be taken away tomorrow in an announcement by Staff? It certainly has made me more trepidatious about longer-term goal oriented PCs, and I am sure others will agree there.

I would implore those who think Tuluk is 'just another city state to have a starting location' to consider past events in your time playing the game (if you played, when Tuluk was around and active). How many plots revolved around Tuluk, either as enemy or ally or concept that injected into your PCs life? It is likely Tuluk touched many plots in the game, to a certain extent, either directly or indirectly. There are postulations that not enough is happening in Allanak, even with Tuluk being closed, and focus should be put on existing areas of play. Redesigning the Bishop or the Knight for Team Allanak has little bearing on where all of Team Tuluk's pieces have gone, and where these redesigned Team Allanak pieces are supposed to go or do. It is no wonder that these sentiments are apparent for some people -- In a chess game with one team playing against itself, there is no actual conflict, only fabricated conflict. Fabricated conflict can only entertain for so long, particularly after realizing it is fabricated and being sold to you as real.

[HeeBeeGB]

Sorry Heade, just going to agree to disagree. 

Basically I would rather just see a gith fire nation attack making every location more interesting to play in rather than see another city location (abeit a very interesting one) open up to provide yet more taverns for us to sit in and talk about nothing. 

I also find it funny that people seem to forget that the staff didn't just roll over and close Tuluk rather there was also a concentrated effort by a number of players that refused to play in Tuluk after the changes that occurred during the war. The numbers in Tuluk never increased despite the staff putting so much effort in making the place interesting.  I don't know the number of people Tuluk had when it closed but it hadn't been in good shape for a long time.

Unfortunately, this is false. Tuluk was experiencing a bit of a boom in the weeks leading up to its closure, and that was admitted even by Northern Staff at the time (Team Evershine) who were just as blindsided by the Producer's decision to close Tuluk. There were several active plots, a war ongoing that involved every strata of the city, bats and secrets involving them plaguing the city. I think if you polled the active players in Tuluk a month before it closed, they would say it is the best it had been in recent memory. It was in a good place and getting better, and the rug was pulled out from under it.

I should mention it is a fallacy that Tuluk was closed because of a 'concentrated effort by a number of players that refused to play in Tuluk'. There was no revolution or picket signs. Sure, many people didn't like to play in Tuluk and preferred Allanak. It had been that way for literal years. Just as many people liked to play in Tuluk occasionally, and many players enjoyed playing in Tuluk almost exclusively. Staff made the decision based on their own metrics, their own time constraints, and it was done in a prophylactic fashion. The concept was to consolidate the current PC population and Staff Teams rather than dilute it between two city states. Instead of having two branches of GMH in both cities, there would just be one. Instead of two branches of Noble Houses in North and South, there would just be the Southern Nobles to worry about. I think it had very little to do with PC population at the time. Part of the reason it was made an OOC change rather than an IC change was that Staff could walk back the decision if they wanted to, over time. Unfortunately, this also lead to the elephant in the room for RL years of 'what happened to Tuluk'. It was considered an experiment, and I do not think it had all of the intended results.

I would direct you to Rathustra's post on the closure of Tuluk as a measure of both Northern Staff's surprise and reticence at the move to close Tuluk, and the acknowledgement that it was moving in a good direction.
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49199.msg878176.html#msg878176

As well, a quote from the announcement itself:

Staff turnover and staff shortfalls have made the task of maintaining a staffing team with forward momentum difficult for more than short periods.  While we remain at full strength temporarily, we inevitably lose staffers (just as we lose players in sponsored roles) to real-life circumstances.  We believe that consolidating our staffing resources and altering the staffing structure will allow us to staff the game more efficiently and more productively, even with the shortfalls we experience.

There is nothing in the announcement about 'due to a concerted effort by players who hate Tuluk and refuse to play there, we have closed Tuluk.' It is much more grey than that, and I would postulate this assertion is basically hearsay.

[Heade]

Thanks for digging up the relevant posts, HeeBeeGB. I postulated the same as you, but had neither the time nor the motivation to dig up supporting evidence. I'm glad you did.

[Asanadas]

Let's not mince words here. Nyr put Tuluk in a bad spot with his shadow artist drama, threw himself out of the responsibility when he couldn't fix it, and then unilaterally shut Tuluk down out of spite when others started making it better. I got that factoid out of Nergal myself. And let's not delude ourselves: we know in hindsight that much of the animosity in the community towards Tuluk was a proxy snipe at Nyr himself. Guy wasn't popular.

The difficulty herein relies on the documentation of Tuluk demanding subtlety. It demands finesse. It demands noble roles that don't have sex with commoners. Tuluk is a harder venue to write for than Allanak and a harder setting to keep people entertained in than Allanak due to these things. I understand the reluctance: opening Tuluk would be difficult (for you). But Tuluk should have been opened two months ago with the coronavirus player bump. Maybe all those people that came and went from lockdown boredom might come and stay for a properly done Tuluk.

That's the argument. It's not like anything else of that level of significance has happened in recent memory.

[HeeBeeGB]

Let's not mince words here. Nyr put Tuluk in a bad spot with his shadow artist drama, threw himself out of the responsibility when he couldn't fix it, and then unilaterally shut Tuluk down out of spite when others started making it better. I got that factoid out of Nergal myself. And let's not delude ourselves: we know in hindsight that much of the animosity in the community towards Tuluk was a proxy snipe at Nyr himself. Guy wasn't popular.

The difficulty herein relies on the documentation of Tuluk demanding subtlety. It demands finesse. It demands noble roles that don't have sex with commoners. Tuluk is a harder venue to write for than Allanak and a harder setting to keep people entertained in than Allanak due to these things. I understand the reluctance: opening Tuluk would be difficult (for you). But Tuluk should have been opened two months ago with the coronavirus player bump. Maybe all those people that came and went from lockdown boredom might come and stay for a properly done Tuluk.

That's the argument. It's not like anything else of that level of significance has happened in recent memory.

Nyr -- Like any Staff member -- Didn't operate in a vacuum. It was a decision made by all three Producers at the time (Adhira, Nyr, and Nessalin). It was voted on, and the decision was delivered down to Administrators.

Tuluk shouldn't have been opened two months ago just because a global pandemic was hitting. If anything, that would have been the worst time to open it simply because people had more free time. It would do a disservice to Tuluk to reopen it simply because there were anecdotally more players around. If anything, I think right now would be a good time to consider talking about re-opening Tuluk, but there is quite a bit of work that would need to be done beforehand. You couldn't simply do nothing and re-open it. First off, there were actual IC events that transpired after the announcement of it closing, and a more recent announcement of what happened to Tuluk in the interim. Those would need to be reconciled, a new vision of what Tuluk has become would need to be hashed out amongst Staff, and a future vision of what Tuluk might become/be playable within would need to be hashed out and realized.

We're talking about months of work, not 'hey there's a global pandemic killing people, let's re-open Tuluk and capitalize on everyone's free time. It's in poor taste to say it was the perfect time to do it.

[HeeBeeGB]

Dissecting Tuluk into bite-sized chunks, starting from the top:

Tuluki Templarate:

This already moved in the right direction. The orders were merged, Lirathans/Jihaens were combined into simply 'Templar'. Gender-exclusive paths within the Templarate were done away with, finally removing a glaring obstacle in ArmageddonMUD's concept of the gender you were born with having correlation with your life path. Psionic Powers were distributed more evenly, also requiring sacrificing one path for another, and were less focused on overt Lirathan methods that were pretty stifling for plots. Everything that was done here I approve of, and if anything, it can simply be dusted off and reapplied with some updates for IC events.

The only addition I would make that is the Foil to Allanak's power is a developed ability to remove someone's connection to the elements, either semi-permanently or permanently. This would include Southern Templars' connection to Tektolnes.

The Pyramid could likely be unchanged. If anything, shrunken slightly and updated, while making 'The Heart' more open to the public, with the Pyramid itself being off limits.

Tuluki Nobility:
As mentioned previously, there are two options here. Have the only surviving Houses be one or two (Tenneshi and Lyksae as examples). Alternatively, have several of the Houses band together under two distinct ideological banners -- One that argues for isolationism, Tuluki 'Pride', and rooting out unsavory elements of the Gol Krathu, carrying a more 'Modern Tuluk' banner while focusing inwards on restructuring, rebuilding, and reimagining. The other House clings to traditionalist ways, the Poet's Circle, carrying the Tuluki Message throughout the world (expansionism) and has war-like tendencies. Make these Houses diametrically opposed to one another, as Tenneshi and Winrothol were supposed to. Have members of these clans have limited exclusion from Crime Code when attacking one another in Tuluk.

Soldiers/Militia/Black-Ops:

The Sun King's Legions can be reformed under a new banner of the new Templarate, the Black Moon Order. These soldiers keep the peace through brutal discipline of those that speak against, disappearances in the night, and trials without jury or onlooker in alleyways. Cross the law, and you likely will not cross the road again. They should almost be more oppressive and brutal than their Southern Counterparts, which honestly have more of a bent towards making the Templar the judge/jury/exeecutioner. Make this different. Make the soldiers of Tuluk even worse, more seemingly corrupt, brutal, and Gestapo-like than Allanak. Set them apart.

Black Ops could just be the same as soldier, dependent on the person's ability. Those who have a connection to the Void can register with the State and serve as Witch Hunters. They would be considered in a similar light to 'Witchers' in Geralt's universe. Necessary evils that are spit on, reviled, but also sought after for their ability to hunt down and kill Magickers.

Citizenship:

Why be a citizen of Tuluk? What do those tattoos get you? Can anyone become a citizen? Can anyone be made a citizen?

While part of my likes the idea of people being branded from birth with Gol Krathu tattoos, why not make it actually mean something. Are their two castes of people in the city? The haves and the have nots? This makes for a more interesting strata of society.

Perhaps Templars can make someone a citizen on the spot, based on their service or 'Good Deeds'. Perhaps Nobles could do the same. There were a few examples of Southerner ex-pats who became Northerners, Inked and everything, and I always found this concept fascinating. What makes someone a Northerner? Can someone become Tuluki? Interesting things to postulate on and dissect.

Shadow Artists:

Always clunky. I would leave it at 'Assassination, theft, and other acts that would be considered petty crime, if performed artfully and without evidence of wrongdoing, is legal in Tuluk's Walls'. Do away with the tattoos or registering with the State. Let it be built on reputation alone.

Poet's Circle:

Most of the Poet's Circle doesn't survive the most recent upheaval in Tuluk. Open up 3 of the Circles -- Irofel, Driamusek, and (Gosh, it's been a while...) Rusarla? The one that accepts Elves/Half-Giants/Dwarves more readily. Have it mirror the Atrium in a respect, that Circle-trained are more often accepted as Noble aides, and can operate rather freely during their time of tutelage. Have the Templarate directly oversee the Poet's Circle, thereby controlling rumors, information mongering, and propaganda.

Levies:

Continue with the Levies concept. It was great having any Tuluki capable of both contributing to war-efforts, training, and responses to threats in the city or outside of it. Perhaps rolling with the citizenship idea, have service in the Levies guarantee citizenship.

Independents:

Always a bonus of Tuluk, the capability of Independents to grow and grow big. Similar to the GMH Adoption path, have the Grey Hunt become a regular thing again. Set Tuluk apart from Allanak -- Even a Commoner can become a Hlum Noble, and maybe be adopted into a Noble House, if they stick to it, and grease the right palms. Make it more like America -- You can pull yourself up by your bootstraps in Tuluk! Except...Not really, if you piss off the wrong people.

Akai S'jirr:

I loved this clan, despite its nepotism. They should be scummier, rule the Warrens, and not nearly as chummy with the Templarate as they once were. They survive by the skin of their teeth, by their craft, and by eliminating those that would snub them or stamp them out. Simply make them have less standing or clout in general.

UnderTuluk/Elven Marketplace/Freil's Rest/Old Tuluk Ruins/Tembo's Tooth/All Other Bloat:

Get rid of it, for good. Gotta cut down the geography.

Red Sun Commons/Poet's Circle/Warrens/Vestric Tavern/Sanctuary/Noble Quarter/The Heart:

Keep all of this. It was shrunken. Shrink it a little more. Noble Quarter, combine it with the Heart. Make the Pyramid the center, and each Noble House off in a cardinal direction (E/W) from the center, while the Pyramid proper is to the North. Keep the Bahamet's Maw for hoidy-toidy get togethers and Templar/Noble meet ups. Move the Poet's Circle to just south of the Heart, where the Noble Quarter was. Make it 1/3rd the size. Get rid of the tavern.

Warrens:

Make it have no crime code, rather than limited crime code. It should be relatively small -- 10-15 rooms. It should lead to places like the Akai Sjirr, some dingy apartments, and some sellers with beefy NPC guards.

Crime Code:
Make all citizens of Tuluk able to attack all citizens of Allanak without repercussion, particularly at night or in lawless areas any time of day (Unpopulated).

Make all members of Noble Houses able to attack all members of other Noble Houses without crime code repercussion.

Have Templars decide if they want to put a pox on both their Houses, invite them over for tea, or get involved.

Byn/GMH Branches:
Have small compounds in the North. Nothing like before. 3-5 rooms, 1 save room, 1 training room, 1 bunk room, 1 cook. Rotate between City States more frequently.

[Dresan]

Stuff that isn't helping with the argument that opening up Tuluk is a good idea

lol, blindsided eh?

In all honestly the more you bring up past posts and events around the closure, the more I cringe and remember that the Tuluk that closed was not the same Tuluk that I played in since Luirs was in ruins. 

Shadow artist. That is a word I never wanted to remember again.

After reading your posts and remembering the past more clearly, instead of opening Tuluk, I feel we burn the place down down completely and turn it into ruins.

[HeeBeeGB]

Stuff that isn't helping with the argument that opening up Tuluk is a good idea

lol, blindsided eh?

In all honestly the more you bring up past posts and events around the closure, the more I cringe and remember that the Tuluk that closed was not the same Tuluk that I played in since Luirs was in ruins. 

Shadow artist. That is a word I never wanted to remember again.

After reading your posts and remembering the past more clearly, instead of opening Tuluk, I feel we burn the place down down completely and turn it into ruins.

Blindsided, yes. If Allanak closed tomorrow without warning and only a Staff Announcement deciding it was the right thing to do, wouldn't you be blindsided? I suppose you have prescient qualities, and can look back to that time and say 'I predicted Tuluk was going to close'. I would say you were/are full of shit, but hey. Opinions, am I right?

I too agree Shadow Artist is a word I don't want to see again. Instead of making the system complex/tattoos/registering, just making well done crime not investigated would suffice.

I think you are remembering 'your past' more clearly. It isn't everyone's past, or everyone's experience. My experience is clearly different, as is Heade's and others.

You yourself claim that Allanak is stagnant and not receiving enough attention. In my opinion, re-opening Tuluk would provide stimulus and conflict in that direction, providing the other team on that chess board. Did you have any solutions to your own proposed problem besides whinging?

[Dresan]

Did you have any solutions to your own proposed problem besides whinging?

I did. 

You believe the massive effort required in opening and keeping tuluk is fun is the way to go, while I feel we the effort needs to be put into larger worldwide plots and events will make the current locations we have more fun to play in, such as the gith fire nation invading. Or PC closed off Tuluk launching a massive attack and Allanak finally burning it to the ground at great cost to itself. (and then the gith fire nation invades)

I just don't agree with your ideas and do not believe that the effort involved in opening Tuluk and making it fun will have the big payoff people think it will. But I agree it adds another city location to the game, which will attract some people and help a bit with burn out. 

I can see you are passionate about your idea though. But its okay that we disagree. Chill a bit.

[RavingTregils]

If you want a game. Give us Tuluk and let the best city win.
If you want just another plot with a predetermined outcome so you can ride along. Welcome gith raid 9000.

[7dwarves]

I agree with this. I'd just open Tuluk again and let Jesus take the reins.

[Dresan]