Tribal, accents, and statelessness

[Vex]

There isn't, currently, a way to play a character without particular origin.

No matter the elaboration, or how you attempt to play it through emote/socials, you're either SOUTHERN, NORTHERN or TRIBAL, with a few exceptions that are relatively minor. When I am inclined towards a drifter character, or, you know, some other character who lacks any notable origin or single place/culture they're really influenced by, I choose TRIBAL. However, it is an ocean of tribals, where it feels as if most aren't even really tribal. I know, personally, quite a few of my pcs, especially lately, aren't really tribal, but end up with the label (and Bendune), for lack of other, more reasonable origin options.

Not only does it seem rather disingenuous from an IC/OOC PoV, but it also waters down and cheapens actual tribal play. Where the tribe clans tend towards being unique in behaviors and cultures, the Luirs "tribals" tend to behave like city slickers, except with a tribal accent and Bendune. Half of them wear heels and city garb, even. Yet, it's the "sorta tribals", that tend to define "tribalism", due to sheer volume, and leaves actual tribal clans / pcs, rather marginalized in an unintended way. Weird, instead of foreign, I suppose?

I think a "stateless" origin, with a suitably neutral (for better or worse...) accent indicator, would eliminate a lot of the "whole world is tribal" and let the actual tribal clans/pcs stand out and better define the niche. I don't really know, or care, what origin skills they'd get, or whatever. It doesn't really matter. Something that doesn't lean too much towards city OR wilderness play. Haggle/value, maybe? I don't know, it doesn't really matter, as I said.

On the topic of accents, it might also help, if you're using an accent that didn't come with your origin package, you have a chance to revert back to it without prompting, based on how long you've been attempting to talk like that. Slip ups would happen. Its a bit irksome, imo, how many people tend towards perfection, when it comes to things like that, and it'd also help to keep the trash (tribal/rinthi/stateless) from so easily infiltrating, or passing themselves off as, citizens of state.

ATM, its as simple as keeping your head down, until you pop the accent you want, turning it on, and never looking back. It should take work to get that good, but maybe, not quite so long, as learning a language. Not even close to that, actually. Just not so toggle and forget, with absolute certainty of non-failure.

Just thoughts.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

Yeah was going to mention there's Rinthi accent and Desert accent, at least as far as I am aware. There COULD be more, not sure.

It sounds like you want all the different tribes to have more of a unique coded accent, but that's the problem: they're all coded as skills and integrated in all forms of verbal communication. The issue is, then, we'll be modifying code, and the effort absolutely shouldn't be wasted on the typical lone tribal, last of his kind, etc. who may just wind up dying in a week anyway.

Just consider the in-game implications of this, where everyone starting a new tribal character would have the option to define a new type of accent. At the very least, that'll be a mess of code, and assuming it all works, players could end up flooded with a host of different accents on their skills sheet, half of which are defunct and no one actually speaks anymore. I think, maybe, we could just do with a few more types of coded accents that could add a bit more variety, but I have to say, this brings up the question of where these accents came from. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Also, don't know what you're talking about with "tribals acting like city slickers". For one thing, this simply isn't true. By far it is not true. I don't think I've even seen a single person in game wearing heels, yet. I think you may just be forgetting that "tribal accent" is just that: an accent. It doesn't actually indicate that a player belongs to a specific tribe. And with Luir's being a very prominent outpost, much like a small city, it only makes sense that locals there pick up such an accent and speak that way, even if they may indeed be city-dwellers for the most part.

[HeeBeeGB]

It would be nice if there was an 'unknown/hard to place' accent, that wasn't learnable to people listening. So those who come from an unknown background or drifter type background can have that niche, but it isn't a niche that's easily replicated.

[Alesan]

Oh good, then I'll really be able to make a proper mysterious, hooded, elusive man!

[Gentleboy]

This is an interesting post and I'm glad someone started it.

I think something important to remember is that each tribe has their own level of "wildness".

If an individual chooses to put on kitten heels and join Salarr, so be it. Their own personal ramifications of turning their back on their tribe? Well, there are no ramifications. There's no tribe to hold them up to what they're doing. Coded tribes, if they got an apartment in the city (in most cases) Would be stored. I dunno.

This seems like a thread questioning the practicality of non-coded tribals. Maybe I'm just putting what I wanna talk about on the forefront of my mind. I don't know what the point of non-coded tribals are to be honest, but- would love to know. If someone wants to dm the positives of independent tribals, please do.

[Vex]

It sounds like you want all the different tribes to have more of a unique coded accent, but that's the problem: they're all coded as skills and integrated in all forms of verbal communication. The issue is, then, we'll be modifying code, and the effort absolutely shouldn't be wasted on the typical lone tribal, last of his kind, etc. who may just wind up dying in a week anyway.

No, you've missed the point, entirety.

I'm suggesting we need a coded origin, for the drifters and stateless trash, for the purposes of separating them from authentic tribal characters. The homogenizing effect of everyone not wanting to be northern or southern, being tribal, is a negative one, on the actual tribal experience. I don't feel its intentional, or that picking a tribal for lack of other options is 'wrong' exactly, but that we could very easily provide an alternative for those kinds of characters, that doesn't diminish the tribal persona so much.

[Kyviantre]

IE a 'Nomad' rather than a 'Tribal'.  To split up the people who roam around following work and food and sid, and the people who have tribal lands and families (whether alive or the last-of-their-kind)?

I can get behind adding a 'Nomad' type group, with a melange-accent, blended-accent, something like that anyway.  I'm sure there is a better synonym.

[Helloworld]

I can get behind adding a 'Nomad' type group, with a melange-accent, blended-accent, something like that anyway.  I'm sure there is a better synonym.

How about "unplaceable"?

When looking up the definition of unplaceable online the example sentences I got were both with regards the the unplaceability of accents

[cnemus]

Regarding the basic premise... no I don't think we need new accents. I like the ones we have just fine and I think the amount of work required to implement it far exceeds the benefit that might be gained. [Edit to Add] However, what you might be looking for is the human twin tribes to start with the desert accent to set them apart. I would actually support that.

Not only does it seem rather disingenuous from an IC/OOC PoV, but it also waters down and cheapens actual tribal play. Where the tribe clans tend towards being unique in behaviors and cultures, the Luirs "tribals" tend to behave like city slickers, except with a tribal accent and Bendune. Half of them wear heels and city garb, even. Yet, it's the "sorta tribals", that tend to define "tribalism", due to sheer volume, and leaves actual tribal clans / pcs, rather marginalized in an unintended way. Weird, instead of foreign, I suppose?

I have personally noticed a lot of effort put into non-clanned tribals. Names, customs, accents, and individual flavor. While there absolute is a spectrum of how much of that I see, I also know that just like clanned tribals... outsiders don't get invited into the secret ins and outs casually.

I try to give players the benefit of the doubt.

Just because the customs and behavior they have chosen to act out does not mesh with one narrow possibility of what it means to be tribal, doesn't mean they aren't tribal. Tribal is, at it's core, a family centric culture that sees loyalty to that family as paramount to loyalty to a city. In that regard, Luir's tribals are as much tribals as clanned ones. Of course the IC perspective of almost any tribal is that if you aren't one of us, you are less relevant, but I don't think that should bleed out into our OOC perspective.

The major tribes are individually larger, more powerful, and influential, but there are tribes scattered from Gol Krathu, through the Abi'li Pah, Red Desert, to Vrun Driath. I don't think they make up even 10% of the total tribals as a whole. I would welcome clarification on that point if incorrect.

[Vex]

I like a quality tribal character, too, which is entirely the point, of leaving the tribal accent, Bendune, and all of that, to characters that are actually invested into the role, rather than "tribal" being the default option, for lack of options, for people who would play semi-neutral, drifter types. If I want to play those kinds of characters now, I'm essentially forced to go with tribal and inherit a language and accent that aren't necessarily appropriate. Its just less inappropriate than the other options.

You're stuck seeing a hobo with a tribal-accent, speaking and perfectly understanding your Bendune, and behaving not a bit like someone who should be able to do either of those things. It's less than ideal.

It isn't as if I'm asking them to re-name tribal-accent to nomadic-accent, though I suppose that could be a work around. I'm certainly not asking, to have the tribal/nomadic origin removed or changed. You aren't going to lose anything. We can keep and enjoy the nice things we have already, and adding something new won't lessen them at all.

And I rather think it IS worth the effort, if it can accommodate a broader range of character types with themes that are appropriate.

[HeeBeeGB]

What about 'no accent'? Meaning, when you pick an origin that is well, without origin, you don't speak with an accent. Accents are relatively new IIRC. So you can just change to 'no accent', and you speak without inflection.

[triste]

This is interesting insofar as it brings to mind the whole philosophical truth that their is no such thing as "no accent." Certain accents might become the default like the Continental accent in one era and the West Coast Hollywood accent in another, but they are all accents.

If we go for a change like this unplaceable or some such as someone recommend might work. But I actually see little need for this feature given the shield wall conveniently divides the world into north and south and therefore there is no such thing as someone who is not northern, southern, tribal, etc.

[BadSkeelz]

Kind of an aside but maybe we should swap the difficulty of learning languages and accents. Make it easier to learn languages but harder to ditch your native accent.

[triste]

Kind of an aside but maybe we should swap the difficulty of learning languages and accents. Make it easier to learn languages but harder to ditch your native accent.

https://youtu.be/7cmWlZXSH44

[Brokkr]

What about 'no accent'? Meaning, when you pick an origin that is well, without origin, you don't speak with an accent. Accents are relatively new IIRC. So you can just change to 'no accent', and you speak without inflection.

Technically there is actually "no accent", which is when you don't have an accent skill and your language shows up to everyone like you were speaking in their accent (ie, with nothing that indicates a language).

It isn't allowed for players, since it makes no sense whatsoever.

[AdamBlue]

What about 'no accent'? Meaning, when you pick an origin that is well, without origin, you don't speak with an accent. Accents are relatively new IIRC. So you can just change to 'no accent', and you speak without inflection.

Technically there is actually "no accent", which is when you don't have an accent skill and your language shows up to everyone like you were speaking in their accent (ie, with nothing that indicates a language).

It isn't allowed for players, since it makes no sense whatsoever.

If I remember right, there is also the 'accentless' accent but I think that is reserved for extremely scary things.