Description writing tips for DUMMIES

[innocent bystanderd]

I get sick of seeing the following from accepted applications.
"Dick and Jill" writing. (The cat is black. It's fur is short. It's eyes are green.)
Redundancy (see "Dick and Jill")
Being overly Subjective without supporting details (Is sexy, no reason why, just is)
I see this laziness more then I should. I do wish the people who decline descriptions, decline a few for general lack of detail.

OK no more bitching for me. down to the tips and hints.

Some major problems people have with writing a description is "what will he look like and how do I describe it"

Hint one: What I found helpful is to just start out making a list of all the details you may want your character to have. And make this list as long as possible. When you get down to writing it, a lot will be cut out.

Second of all when you are writing a description you want to mention the most important things first. Like what a person would see when they first look at you. For example you do not open up describing how big your feet are, because that is probably the last thing someone will notice. For another example. If you are a journalist you would write an article the same way; by mentioning the most important facts first (what people want to read) then trickling down to the miniature details. Finally when it goes out for press and there is too much written, the editor just cuts off from the bottom.

Hint Two: Now that you have your list put it in order of acknowledgment organize your list into groups, all the facial descriptions go with the face, etc... and put them in order.

You ready yet? Well, when you have your list in order of importance and have the similar attributes grouped together you may begin to write your description. I will give you now a terrible description, I will say what is wrong with it then I will give tips on how to fix it.

"He is a tall human. He has a big ugly belly. His head is round like an egg. His face is handsome. He has scars on his skin. He is really big and muscular with long scars going down his arms and legs. His hair is black and curly. He has a flat nose from being punched a lot."

First of all I hate the "Dick and Jill" style. It is like a children's book (actually that's what earned the style its name).
Tip One: Do not describe each part one by one, Please put them together into coherent sentences. Alike how you grouped similar body parts together in your list do the same with your sentences. And do not mention a facial feature in the beginning and then add a random one at the end, it is just silly. And annoying when your trying to get the gist of someone's description. It is like I notice your eyes and then the scars on your legs before I notice your flat broken nose.

Second of all I hate redundancy! (Even though I catch myself practicing it more often then I would like to.)
Tip two: Do not start out every sentence with the same word and do not use the same word over and over again. It gets annoying. That is why the English language has graced us with a wide verity of words to choose from. Go to dictionary.com and check out the thesaurus.

Tip three: Also do not start out every sentence mentioning what he is, we know that already. As in the example above, the writer uses 'his' and 'he' in the beginning of every sentence. Try using some other words to begin the sentence for example. "Between the crimson eyes of this hawkish humanoid a flat crooked nose rests."

Tip four: Don't be subjective. Let the person who is reading your description decide how handsome your face is. Use details. they are your friends. If you are short on words refer to http://www.dhorizon.org/characterBuilder/

Tip five: When going from one idea to another, or one point of focus to another, please us transition words. Reading a description without transition words is like crossing a river without a bridge.

Do not get discouraged it takes some time. I myself like to put in a good hour or two into writing a good description. After it, you feel proud. Indeed it is true, I do not lie. As you get more experianced in Armageddon, you will begin to learn to tie in ideas from your backround into your description. I have found my self writing the backround to my character before actually describing the character.

Anyway, that is my "2 sid", I suck at everything else.... Yes, even the code. heheh Bests of luck [/b]

[creeper386]

Cut out the short rant and bitch and that'll be a fairly decent informative post. Although an example of what you consider a "good" description to be and more information on writing a "good" description would make it alot more beneficial instead of just saying a few of the things you shouldn't do.

Creeper

[Tamarin]

worthy of a helpfile, might I add.

While I do not much like those descriptions either, I hate it more when people are too overly elaborate.

Like: "Like a tear of lucent crimson silver metallic rain-drop water, her hair flows down her back like a waterfall of shimmeringness and stuff."

you get the point.

So in addition I say to keep it tact and straight to the point. Simile's and metaphors are great in descriptions, when used in moderation with hard facts and details.

And for more information see: (the documentation)
http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html#main

[Anonymous]

I like nice descriptions...but at the same time I think people can go too far.
I don't think descriptions should be soooooooo long, that in a room with nothing going on...you still have to scroll back to read it.
It's just annoying, there is such a thing as too much...it's like perma-spam when someone's description is that long.
Same with short descriptions...big long words that you have to look up to find out what they mean suck too.

I swear, one of these days I'm going to come across something like this:

The supercalifragilisticexpialodocius, wiry man is standing here.

...and I'm just going to have to break char and sacrifice my char to kill him and save everyone else from having to see that...

[innocent bystanderd]

ok ceeper I will revise it for your non-bitchy self. ill give some good examples but it is hard to play arm and inform people how to write a sentance at the same time.

[creeper386]

First I'd like to say, people won't read far if they look at your post and say, he's an elitist bastard and I don't care what he says. Second getting bitchy, calling people names and such, ussually isn't the best way to go about anything. And just pointing out what is wrong with examples isn't way to show someone how it's right if you want them to learn it. Tell them what to do, not just what not to do, and include examples of what you think is right. Giving examples of only wrong things tends to reinforce what you don't like and not what you want to see.

Now, when I'm writing a description I always try to get the acrossed what they look like, as well as abit of that characters flavor. If they are meant to look mean, I try to get that across. If they stand out, or blend in... The same thing. And generally you can help shape how people react by getting those things across in your description. If your an elf, a really filthy human, or just a big scary looking fellow and you want people to treat you as such, you have to drive that home. Not through repetition but by your description adressing and reinforcing that ideal.

When I'm writing a description, I tend to start out with the large things first. General body build. Is my character tall and lanky? Or is he a human that looks more like a dwarf? Skin tone can go in early... Hair if they have it and it's really noticable(IE if you have short hair or something bland I wouldn't put it in early but if it's something out of the norm in color or fashion I'd put it in early) Ussually it's good to put the most important features right away as said above. Is he missing an eyeball? Lacking any limbs... Have any scars that REALLY stand out? Ussually I end up working from the head down, but thats also how I tend IRL to notice someone, but if somethings important and I want it to stick out, a good place would be to put that as the VERY first thing and go from there. You don't have to say, "The thing that sticks out the most is..." Or anything as it's already going to be the first thing they read and going to stick out the most.

Now... I'm going to give an example description, and I'll definately say it's one of my least descriptive descriptions ever. It was made for a gladiator character that died sometime back after a terrible showing both ICly and OOCly on my part. I feel ashamed but that doesn't matter. The reason I'm giving it as an example is because I'm too lazy to make one up, I think it does a fairly good job to get the 'look' of the character across albeit it's lack of detail, and it's the only description I feel safe putting on the GDB.

Code Select Expand

At first glance, this dwarf looks to be one of the shortest full grown dwarves in existance, but this is only do to his extraordinary girth. He is wide as well as thick even for a dwarf, creating an illusionary shortness to his already short frame. Hairless skin is stretched tautly over the dwarf's muscular frame, it's pale yellow surface marred only by snow white scars, an obvious account to no contact with the harsh sun and cruel elemants of everyday life.

Yes, it's three sentances. Yes the third sentace is fairly long. Yes it has total lack of detail. No facial features at all. It also wasn't going to be seen by anyone except other gladiators, and it gets acrossed most everything I wanted to get acrossed. 1) He IS a dwarf. 2) He's short. 3) He has a large frame. 4) He's obviously been in slavery all his life. 5) It's obvious he's seen combat of some form.

The only thing I'd change to this if I was going to use it as a real PC, would be to briefly describe his face after the second sentance. Most likely put in whatever eye color, and better introduce the fact that he's seen combat. I wouldn't go into much detail as I wanted the feel that he wasn't really TOO unique for a dwarf. Beyond his skin tone and alittle more bulk he's fairly average.

Probably won't be of any help and everyone well think less of me, but thats all I got.

Creeper

[My 2 sids]

"Dick and Jill" writing. (The cat is black. It's fur is short. It's eyes are green.)

Well, because no one has brought it up, I will.  The "Jack and Jill" writing style you so freely bashed has probably caused a lot of resentment from a good number of players.  As easy as it may be to forget, this game has a lot of ESL players. Add to that English-speaking players with dialects with sayings that aren't picked up on easily (an example might be someone from Great Britain ordering 'fish and chips' and being brought potato chips).  My guess is many times the "Jack and Jill" help people to get their English across.  

Redundancy (see "Dick and Jill")
Anyone else find this statement slightly amusing? :lol:

Being overly Subjective without supporting details (Is sexy, no reason why, just is)
With this one, I mostly agree.  I think people need to further study the docs (try the "clothing" section) and really think about the world that character lives in.  Why would "richly tanned skin" be considered beautiful in a world where anyone can get a tan?  
:idea:  :arrow: One hint I would give is if a player is having a difficult time trying to come up with something that would make their character pretty, rugged, mean, sad, etc.  Find out ICly.  Ask around, "Hey Joe, Do you think that dwarf over there would make a fine catch?"  

One final note,  for better or worse, I agree with Creeper... even if he is   creepy.   :roll:  :x  :wink:  

That's my two sids ™  

[Bestatte]

Speaking as the elitist bitch that I am, I have to agree with the person who started this thread. I will also begrudgingly agree with those who think he could've posted in a way that encouraged good writing, rather than discouraged bad writing.

I'll add a couple more elitist bitchisms:

Use complete sentences. No matter what country you live in, or language you speak, this is a universal law. A sentence has a subject, a verb, and a predicate. This law is a minimum standard for writing in every language that has a written alphabet.

This man standing really tall in front of you. He has green hair. Which is long. And falls down his neck.

1) He isn't standing tall or short when he's sitting. I don't care what the standards of the game are, I HATE THIS. It's a pet peeve, and I wish it could force an auto-reject or edit as soon as it hits the app process.

2) Since it -is- acceptable (much to the dismay of my elitist bitchy sensitivities), then use the verb correctly for chrissakes. This man IS standing - or this man STANDS.

3) "Which is long" isn't a sentence. It lacks a subject, a noun that "which is long" describes.

4) "And falls down his neck" is not a sentence. It is a predicative phrase which includes the subjective verb, thus requiring a subjective noun.

Now maybe Non-english-speaking people wouldn't know the meaning of the word Noun, or the term "subjective verb," but they'd understand the laws of grammar in their own language. In some languages, the subject and predicate are reversed. This can make for some really difficult transitions, and I totally feel for those who have trouble with writing english. It's a stupid language, and ridiculously difficult to learn. To those, I offer this: FIND A HELPER BEFORE SUBMITTING YOUR APPLICATION!

That's what they're there for. If none of them are interested or available to help you, PM me and I'll help you with your description. Note: I'm not a helper. I do love writing, though, so I'll be happy to offer assistance.

Love and kisses,

The elitist bitch

[My 2 sids]

Quckly... some fun with English:  
http://www.cityu.edu.hk/elc/quiz/subverb1.htm
http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_fun/english.htm

Now, about personal preference.  I think a distiction should be made here about what constitutes poorly done descriptions vs. style choice.  Some people simply prefer the "he stands" and simple sentences.  Those are OK, and to say otherwise is nit-picking borderline offencive.

[buzz]

I'm pretty sure I saw Sanvean had a character description hints and tips page somewhere around here.  I wish I remembered where it was so I could link to it, but alas my memory is failing.  Perhaps she can chime in.

[Cuttlefish]

As long as we're nit-picking -

It's "DICK AND JANE", people.  It's not "Dick and Jill", not "Jack and Jill", not "Mutt and Jeff".

Amazon

[JollyGreenGiant]

As long as we're nitpicking... If you're going to write a post on how you're an elitist who is bothered by the way people write up their mdescs, you'd better not have spelling or grammar errors in your post.

[Edited to include examples.]

"Between the crimson eyes of this hawkish humanoid a flat crooked nose rests."

If you begin a sentence with a subjunctive or subordinate clause, you always offset it with a comma.  Also, multiple adjectives modifying the same noun should be separated by a comma.  Corrected, this sentence would read, "Between the crimson eyes of a hawkish humanoid, a flat, crooked nose rests."

Alike how you grouped similar body parts together in your list do the same with your sentences. And do not mention a facial feature in the beginning and then add a random one at the end, it is just silly. And annoying when your trying to get the gist of someone's description.

In general, it is bad form to begin a sentence with a conjunction.

it's pale yellow surface marred only by snow white scars

The word you're looking for here is its.  The contraction "it's" is short for "it is".  It is not the possessive form of the word "it" - as previously mentioned, that would be "its".

[Xygax]

At first glance, this dwarf looks to be one of the shortest full grown dwarves in existance, but this is only do to his extraordinary girth. He is wide as well as thick even for a dwarf, creating an illusionary shortness to his already short frame. Hairless skin is stretched tautly over the dwarf's muscular frame, it's pale yellow surface marred only by snow white scars, an obvious account to no contact with the harsh sun and cruel elemants of everyday life.

From the staff perspective, since we're discussing the creation of the "perfect" application, here are the things I'd have to repair about this application before I could accept it:

1.)  Spelling:  existance should be "existence"
2.)  Typo:  "do to" should be "due to"
3.)  Misplaced Apostrophe:  "it's pale yellow"  should be "its pale yellow"
4.)  Spelling:  "elemants" should be "elements"

There are some strangenesses in phrasing, also, like "an obvious account to no contact"....  might be better rephrased as "an obvious indication of no contact".  Some words I might have hyphenated, also:  "full-grown", "pale-yellow", "snow-white."

I highly recommend developing your applications in Microsoft word with all the grammar and spelling "complaint" options turned on (if you have the luxury of using Microsoft Word, that is), but be wary of pasting directly from Word, if you paste lines that are too long, your application will get truncated in strange ways.

-- Xygax

[Bestatte]

Regarding commas and their pals, the adjective lists:

Use a comma to separate coordinate adjectives. You could think of this as "That tall, distinguished, good looking fellow" rule (as opposed to "the little old lady"). If you can put an and or a but between the adjectives, a comma will probably belong there. For instance, you could say, "He is a tall and distinguished fellow" or "I live in a very old and run-down house." So you would write, "He is a tall, distinguished man" and "I live in a very old, run-down house." But you would probably not say, "She is a little and old lady," or "I live in a little and purple house," so commas would not appear between little and old or between little and purple.

From http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

If the adjectives fall in place like "a little old lady" then you should -not- be putting a comma in there. It's another pet peeve of mine for short descriptions. In many cases, a single pair of adjectives doesn't need a comma to separate them. In some cases it does. But using the "and" test will tell you which you're dealing with.

The black-eyed and small woman... So, she's black-eyed AND small? Amazing. I never would've thought these things could possibly go together, glad you distinguished between the two. Nope - not necessary. The black-eyed small woman is just fine (or the small black-eyed woman if you're into logical flow of thought), no need to muck it up with a comma.

Okay that was just a little bitchiness tossed in with some useful information. Let it never be said that I'd dare ruin my reputation.

Another tip I just remembered, from back in some obscure high school grammar class:

When you include a list of adjectives in a sentence, say it out loud. If you hear a short pause, then you probably should use a comma. If you don't hear a short pause (or a lowering of the inflection of your voice before you raise it again for the next adjective), then you probably don't need a comma.

"The little old lady" - say it out loud, go ahead! Give it a try. Do you say..

The little - old - lady ?
Or do you say the little/old/lady?

It isn't foolproof. But it's a pretty neat trick and -usually- works.

[creeper386]

Come on! Everyone knows I'm terrible when it comes to any form of grammar. I'm hardly being the elitist here. Lay off. I even edited that post for a few of the glaring errors I had.

*sniff*

Creeper

[Marauder Moe]

By the glaring rays of Suk-krath it's like highschool English class all over again!  :shock:

Still though, it is a little annoying to read poorly-written descriptions.  If I might throw in the best suggestion that helped me: use some sort of actual flow to the character's features.  If you took a picture and drew a line starting at the first thing described and moving to the next, it should be smooth and continuous.  Doesn't matter so much where it starts, top of the head, middle of the face, body, feet, etc, but that it flows smoothly and doesn't jump around.

[Bestatte]

Totally agree with Moe. Add another: redundancy and repetition of words/phrases.

He has silver hair, its silvery locks gleaming down his neck.

That is redundant - identifying the color as silver negates any need to describe it as silver.

He has well-formed features, including his well-formed legs.

That is repetition. We know you're well-formed. You told us in the first part of the sentence. No need to shove it down our throats.

And that's another thing!

[bitch-mode]

If I have to read one more description loaded with well-fits and well-formeds I'm gonna hurl. On your feet. Yes, yours. Those well-formed feet you're so proud of.

[/bitch-mode]

[flurry]

The black-eyed and small woman... So, she's black-eyed AND small? Amazing. I never would've thought these things could possibly go together, glad you distinguished between the two. Nope - not necessary. The black-eyed small woman is just fine (or the small black-eyed woman if you're into logical flow of thought), no need to muck it up with a comma.

How is that any different than the "tall, distinguished man" example from your link, though?  Couldn't you just as easily have written "so he's tall AND distinguished?  Amazing. I never would've thought..."?

I genuinely don't see the distinction in this case.  I would have guessed that "the black-eyed, small woman" would get the comma by what your link says.   I see it either way in sdescs and it seems to be more a matter of personal taste.    

By your comments it seems like it's completely obvious, but it must be too subtle for me.

I think she was saying 'and' is not nescessary.

Like in your own example, "the tall, distinguished man" it doesn't need to be "the tall and distinguished man" yet people feel they need the 'and'.

[Bestatte]

I wasn't saying anything about the tall distinguished man. It's the quote from a grammar website, though there are dozens of other examples on the web.

The point is that if you -can- add the word "and" between adjectives, and doing so makes sense, then you can add a comma. If adding the word sounds awkward, then don't add the comma.

The green blue-eyed woman is a perfect example.

If you say "The green and blue-eyed woman," are you suggesting that her eyes are both green and blue? Or are you suggesting that the woman's eyes are blue, but the rest of her is green?

Since putting "and" in that phrase makes it awkward, then you should -not- include a comma, because the "green, blue-eyed woman" would be unclear.

The green blue-eyed woman is clear. In the case of adjective lists, the comma is used to replace the word and or but. That is its function in adjective lists.

[Stroker]

Holy shit! I forgot I was attending an English class, and here I thought I was playing an entertaining role-playing game. Bummer.

[flurry]

For that example, I understand.   I see how it creates an ambiguity if you were to add "AND".   I don't see this in your first example at all, however.   I didn't (and I still don't) see the distinction of why "the small dark-eyed woman" should have no comma (your example) but "the tall, distinguished man" should (your link's example).  Personally I don't like commas in either case, but that's purely out of personal taste.  I hope I didn't come off as nitpicking, because that wasn't my intent at all.  I just didn't see how your example was consistent with the explanation from your link.


The only reason I responded is that I get thrown when people talk about something like this as if it were some obvious egregious mistake (or is that "obvious, egregious mistake" ), when it seems very subtle to me.

[crymerci]

The problem with these grammar threads is that even the people who were nodding along with the first few posts are shaking their heads by the second page.

[The Dude]

I started shaking my head when these guys started to look like they were just trying to nitpick and show off. Enough already, man.