Shield Use vs. Two-handed for Defense

[Synthesis]

Been doing a bit of testing and observing, and it seems like journeyman two-handed gives you a better overall defense boost than advanced shield use, at least with a commonly-available shield and against moderately difficult opponents.

Now, I realize that there are various other pros and cons involved, but it seems like the block % for shields could stand to be bumped up a little.

[Brokkr]

Put in a request if you actually want to discuss, this isn't the right venue.

[molecricket]

Code Discussion isn't the right venue to discuss coded mechanics?

[Cerelum]

Certain aspects of code they don't want being open knowledge.  They normally are pretty responsive in requests.

[John]

Out of interest does two-handed not advance at the same pace as dual wield and weapon skills?

[Greve]

Put in a request. We're not allowed to discuss the code.

[Namino]

Out of interest does two-handed not advance at the same pace as dual wield and weapon skills?

It does not, ironically linking this to the other thread. Two-handed is a skill that does not link its progression to missing your target at all, which is why it is much easier to master than other skills.

With dual wield you have to miss your target with your offhand to roll a skillup. This is actually quite hard sometimes as unlike your mainhand, there is a flat to-hit rate with your offhand. You can ALWAYS force a parry, block, or hit with your offhand on occasion even if your target can dodge your mainhand 100% of the time.

With two-handed, the code operates differently. At the beginning of each 'round' of combat, the game rolls your skill to see if you get a two-handed boost -- increased attack speed. If you fail that roll -- not your attack rolls, but the speed boost roll -- you can tick up two-handed. If you're ever fighting two-handed and you suddenly have sanic speed, now you know why that is, too. You passed.

[X-D]

Keep in mind as well...currently...dual wield is its own skill. IE you don't have blunt skill? It does not matter off hand as that runs off dual not another weapon skill. The Weapon skills only matter ep and etwo. Or, to put it another way... You only have slashing skill and shield and dual? Shield EP raises shield skill and axe es raises dual skill.....

[Greve]

As I understand Brokkr's posts, two handed is subject to the same offense vs. defense code as weapon skills are while dual wield isn't. That means you can't max it out on squirrels, at least. The biggest issue with the skill is that it gives a significant bonus to offense or accuracy or whatever, which means it's awkward to train because you just about give up the chance to raise weapon skills while you fight etwo. You kinda have to raise two handed and weapon skills separately whereas you can happily dual wield every day of your life without hindering yourself in any way.

[John]

As I understand Brokkr's posts, two handed is subject to the same offense vs. defense code as weapon skills are while dual wield isn't. That means you can't max it out on squirrels, at least. The biggest issue with the skill is that it gives a significant bonus to offense or accuracy or whatever, which means it's awkward to train because you just about give up the chance to raise weapon skills while you fight etwo. You kinda have to raise two handed and weapon skills separately whereas you can happily dual wield every day of your life without hindering yourself in any way.

Is this true Synthesis? Do you have to engage in poor roleplay to grind two-handed?

[Namino]

I am not Synthesis but it is not true. Two-handed is one of the few combat skills that does not require poor play because you have a flat chance to fail your speed up roll regardless of your target. Your target's defense don't factor in. It's just a roll you make privately.

I think Greve is referring to the fact that if you use two-handed, you tend to screw your chance of ever missing a hit because your accuracy goes way up, so it's impossible to simultaneously train etwo and piercing et al at the same time. But that's not really a problem if you take a balanced approach and train etwo, trip its timer, then switch to ep and practice your weapon skills.

[John]

What a surprise. Lots of misinformation on the forums about code. Never would have guessed it.

[Namino]

Honestly, if all the combat skills worked like two-handed, where using them always had a flat chance to roll a skill up, then we'd have no problems. All you have to do then is just exponentially increase the number of 'ticks' at higher skill levels so it slows down without ever stopping.

...This is how almost every other mainstream and indie RPG works when it comes to leveling and skilling, as an aside.

[Synthesis]

As I understand Brokkr's posts, two handed is subject to the same offense vs. defense code as weapon skills are while dual wield isn't. That means you can't max it out on squirrels, at least. The biggest issue with the skill is that it gives a significant bonus to offense or accuracy or whatever, which means it's awkward to train because you just about give up the chance to raise weapon skills while you fight etwo. You kinda have to raise two handed and weapon skills separately whereas you can happily dual wield every day of your life without hindering yourself in any way.

Is this true Synthesis? Do you have to engage in poor roleplay to grind two-handed?

I've never bothered with training two-handed much.  I'd never heard that two-handed trains differently than dual wield, so I figured it was just impossible to raise two-handed beyond advanced.

[Riev]

Anecdotally, my Byn Sergeant trained exclusively in two handed slashing weapons. He was not apped in, he came up through the ranks. He had a pretty cool glaive. He was alright.

He had Master Two Handed very very early, while he was still at Journeyman Slashing. At a certain point, I could not miss against even my better Troopers while two-handing, but when I switched to one hand I could barely keep up.

Two handed is very powerful, but you cannot trail solely in it, because as it raises in skill you raise in accuracy.

[Cerelum]

Two handed also is a death sentence if someone disarms you and picks up your weapon.

I prefer one handed with a shield or dual wield so you're not totally vulnerable to a disarm.

[rinthrat]

Two-handed seems extremely slow to go up lately. Way slower than dual-wield.

[Brokkr]

For awhile (maybe 2 years?) the whole off/def thing was backwards.  So you would learn two-handed easier if you were fighting less skilled opponents and slower with more skilled opponents.

That is now fixed.

[rinthrat]

For awhile (maybe 2 years?) the whole off/def thing was backwards.  So you would learn two-handed easier if you were fighting less skilled opponents and slower with more skilled opponents.

That is now fixed.

I remember this fix. Since then, it seems seriously slow, more like weapon skills than other combat skills.

[Kryos]

I played a lot of the old 'warrior' guild back when that was a thing and always tend towards 'martial' roles. 

All styles have a place, but I do not support the notion that two handed is better defense than shield and depending on some stuff, it can feel a bit better than dual wield or it can fall behind.  This is especially true with the addition of the new class system.

[kahuna]

This is probably off-topic but since we're talking about this vs that.....would love to see spears getting some code love. They are far superior to swords, the fact that swords are the most popular weapon shows the lack of knowledge in the fantasy world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLv8E2pWdk