HRPT - {RANT}

[__Torax__]

Well, first off I'd like to express just how disgusted I was with the HRPT today. I planned and waited for a week for something that only actually lasted 45 minutes. I was rather disgusted with the lack of RP during and after the HRPT. The story line was great, I was looking forward to it because it was something ungodly cool. Now that I've experienced this HRPT, I'm leaning to not wanting to do another. The amount of disorganization during the HRPT was just...Christ I cant even express it...My PC was in *edited by Myrdryn*  during the attacks which I found very boring due to the lack of challenge. I figured that this RPT would be a very gorry one, due to a...

*edited by Myrdryn*

I watched nothing but spam from PCs asking questions that were answered just prior to their question. Orders were not followed, no one listened, the attacks were to simple. The crashes were a bit annoying, though that cannot be helped sometimes and I am not going to complain about that. But since I am probably either A) Going to get some harsh feed-back for this, or B) Probably banned in some way or another I'll just end it here.


-Torax-

[Armaddict]

I didn't like it either.  I agree...the danger level was way too low.  You could be an innocent bystander and be -right there- without any worry.

I mean...weren't these built up to be actual -threats-?  Or were they both intended to get completely squished?

[Ayashah]

You know, you are giving waaaaaaaaaay too much info out on the board. Some do not KNOW what is going on yet.

*pokes*

[__Torax__]

You act liked they missed anything? Jesus christ, I'd would have rathed just not logged in and be called a twink instead of waste 6 hours of my day and listen to nothing but non-stop bitching from my folks for sitting at this computer for it. This was my first RPT and I was figureing it to be something I'd remember for a long time. Well, I'll remember it alright as something I dont want to do again.

[__Torax__]

And I'm sorry if this has upset anyone or if anyone disagrees with me, but I am completly pissed and disgusted right now I can hardly think straight.

[Ueda]

I was kinda mad like an hour ago so I actually hear you on this one but guess what I did that made me feel alot better I made a new char' I think you might notta died but, who knows it could still be going right?

[Clegane]

You have to expect a great deal of chaos, both OOC and IC when a playerbase is assembled i such dramatic numbers.

Nonetheless, I feel your pain for many reasons.

While I certainly respect and appreciate the amount of work and sweat that various Staff members put into this affair, I know a LOT of players worked very hard and very long to prepare for it.

And despite all the planning, work, participation, and sweat...the whole thing had a very 'foregone conclusion' feel to it.

I guess my real query is...had half as many people logged in...or twice a many for that matter...would anything really have changed? Or were we just following a script?

IN any event, thanks to everyone involved for their time and work. On many levels I really appreciated it. Just can't get over the feeling that nothing we did really mattered in the long term.

[Anonymous]

I just don't get it.  From the sounds of it you were right in the middle of it.

All I saw were some echoes about the horizon and the aftermath and I thought the staff did a fantastic job.  It was a very exciting time for me.

I think it was also apparent that A LOT of work went into this and being unable to recognize that because your PC didn't get the most cake is something I, frankly, can't respect.

[Anonymous]

You could have vented without including the IC details like that.

A big problem is EXPECTATIONs. You expected it to be fun, you expected it to be well-organized, expected expected expected. And then were let down because for one reason or another it didn't meet up to your expectactions.

I don't think this HRPT was any different/better/worse then any other. It was an event that involved many people, and was something different to do then sitting in a tavern or crafting, or training, or exploring for some people.

If I recall, the same type of feelings were felt during the last one. "This sucked, there was so much spam and lag and when the lag cleared I was dead. I was only in game for 3 seconds before I died, but I waited like 2 months for this. Wahwahwah, feed and burp me."

I personally feel if you just treated it as a normal day of playing, instead of a day where something exceptional was supposed to happen you might have more fun with it. I came on, late and forgetful of the day even being an HRPT, was shocked and excited and left doing something different and probably seeing things I won't likely see tomorrow or the next day.

It was fun and different. I don't care if it was semi-scripted or disorganized. Considering the scale that things were supposed to be on ICly, if it felt anything other then disorganized I'dve been disappointed. War/mass-battle is not organized and concise.

Anyways, that's all.

Oh and in addition. It started 2 hours ago and doesn't look anything close to 'over'. In fact it seems more exciting now then earlier.

[Dakkon Black]

Well, frankly I dont know what people were expecting. My char personally didnt see a single attacker or anything. Never got attacked never got killed and everyone they know is okay. Am I upset because of that? No, I had a blast today. I think that people switched an event that has a large impact with the world to an event that has a large impact on me because Im so important.

If nobody was listening to orders, well thats an IC thing to handle isnt it?

Finally I saw little of what the staff did and I still think that they must have done a great job. If you weren't entertained then thats your fault. Not thiers.

[Barzalene]

You're fucking insane. That was some cool shit.

[Mr.Camel]

I really loved it, though I hope some people would put more effort on rp in such events. It isnt encouraging to see people in terrible condition running around swinging thier weapons, especially when they scold other characters for trying to help them.

Thanks to anyone that put any effort in the HRPT.

[Ueda]

I guess my real query is...had half as many people logged in...or twice a many for that matter...would anything really have changed? Or were we just following a script?

IN any event, thanks to everyone involved for their time and work. On many levels I really appreciated it. Just can't get over the feeling that nothing we did really mattered in the long term.

Who said it was over?

[Clegane]

Oh, I'm quite sure that it is far from over on many levels.

I was just referring to the day's events, rather than the epic plotline itself.

[Callisto]

Torax, go edit out the IC information in your post.

You just ruined my whole experience, I had no idea what was going on in the rest of the game world other then vague rumors of conflicts going on in other centers of civilzation, it was fantastic. It was like the world was coming apart, rumors running wild, and people on the fritz over the whole event.

There goes the whole feeling of "Are we the last center of civilization left? Is this just the start? Who's the one who brought this down on us?"

I hope you lose karma for that post, you stupid prick.

[Naephet]

I'm happy to hear any constructive criticism, so feel free to post and let me know what you thought of the HRPT.

To address a few points raised:

Duration:  This varied depending on your character's location and involvement.  From my perspective, the HRPT lasted about three hours, with about another three hours of cleaning things up.  I was glad to see it didn't run into the wee hours of the morning.  Did other players think it was too short?

Disorganization:  This was more of an IC issue.  There isn't much we can do about people not following orders, etc..

Violence/'Difficulty':  At a rough count, some 20 players died during the RPT, out of a peak of about 160.  That isn't as high as some HRPTs have been in the past.  But in the past, one of the biggest complaints is that it was impossible to get involved in an HRPT without dying, so we did try to avoid making active involvement impossible.

One of the things we did to this end was spread players out more.  Hopefully, players were able to follow what was happening, and didn't have to just dive into a heap of spam, lag, and death.

The Outcome:  The outcome of the HRPT was without a doubt affected by players, although I think the player who had the biggest impact on things still doesn't realize what they did.

Naephet

On the staff boards we're having a follow up discussion on the quest, as
we try to do with any large project.  If you have feedback, good or bad,
please send it off to mud@ginka.armageddon.org where you can provide
as much IC information as you like.

-the Shade of Nessalin

[Myrdryn]

I've edited some of the content in the first post.  Please remember not to post IC details, it's fine to discuss what you don't like and what you think could have been done to make things better.

For those of you wishing to have a refreasher course on the rules of this discussion board, they are here

Thank you,
Myrdryn

[Wintermute]

I personally thought the HRPT was quite well done.

The efforts on behalf of the staff to deliver a more enjoyable RPT based on player feedback from previous RPT's was obvious, especially in the efforts to 'spread things out'.  This alleviated many of the problems such as individual PC's facing individual NPC 'units' (10+ NPCs).  My best solution would've been to remove NPC units altogether and have them fight virtually in the background, bringing in individual NPCs per number of 'enemy' counts/ratio.  Although we still had units in the game, they were much more in the background of the action and it seems more like a true battle to me with people facing off with their enemies, sticking to their units (ie. not invididuals in a unit facing off against entire other units on both sides).  I think it also definitely helped with the spam/lag side, though these were still apparent when we had fights involving gate guards who are automatically scripted to attack.  Must've been such a bitch to coordinate and execute though.

All in all, I had a great time - thanks to the staff for all the sweat and toil.

[Carnage]

I wasn't involved in the RPT, but I think I'd like to comment on some elements of what Naephet posted:

Duration: This varied depending on your character's location and involvement. From my perspective, the HRPT lasted about three hours, with about another three hours of cleaning things up. I was glad to see it didn't run into the wee hours of the morning. Did other players think it was too short?

I'd much rather be involved in a HRPT that's too short than too long. When it's too long it tends to be problematic to get log out and so on. Short and sweet, in my opinion, would be much better than having something that's way too dragged out.

Violence/'Difficulty': At a rough count, some 20 players died during the RPT, out of a peak of about 160. That isn't as high as some HRPTs have been in the past. But in the past, one of the biggest complaints is that it was impossible to get involved in an HRPT without dying, so we did try to avoid making active involvement impossible.

I'd like to see player death in a RPT be more of a 'if you do something stupid, you will die' sort of thing. I'm not exactly 100% sure of what happened and the circumstances of deaths, but I'd rather that those 20 people died because they tried to take on a group of you-know-whats than being the first ones targetted by a massive creature, like what happened in the sewers RPT in Allanak. I believe a fully rested and armed half-giant was killed in one or two hits, before they even had the chance to flee.

[Ueda]

I'd like to see player death in a RPT be more of a 'if you do something stupid, you will die' sort of thing. I'm not exactly 100% sure of what happened and the circumstances of deaths, but I'd rather that those 20 people died because they tried to take on a group of you-know-whats than being the first ones targetted by a massive creature, like what happened in the sewers RPT in Allanak. I believe a fully rested and armed half-giant was killed in one or two hits, before they even had the chance to flee.

I think thats a little to IC. But he wasn't the only one:( Thats another thing I think we should adress uber buff PC's but I would probably just get lost in conversation.

[buzz]

I've seen a few of these and this is the first one I've been directly involved with.  It was personally very, very hectic on my part.  But I got to play a side of my character I had never expected to fully explore, considering that he'd supposedly be awfully good at it.

I was happy not to see a room full of 50 PCs at any time (well maybe once) so there was never overwhelming lag.  I was happy to see some challenging fights, but nothing that was utterly unwinnable.  There was enough information based on echoes that you knew when it was time to act in a certain way.

I had fun, and it'll be fun cleaning up afterwards.  Thanks much to all the staff for their efforts.

[mansa]

The Outcome:  The outcome of the HRPT was without a doubt affected by players, although I think the player who had the biggest impact on things still doesn't realize what they did.

Naephet

Who was it?  Was it me?  Was it me?

[JimMorrison]

I don't know about you guys, but I had the most intense 3 hours of my life for that HRPT. The duration was perfect. Everything was perfect.

The ONLY thing I would recommend in the future, is a bit more interesting post-rpt time. Things got very very boring for a few hours after the rpt.

[jhunter]

I had a blast, thanks folks!
There were a few minor irritation during it, but hey, that's to be expected when your dealing with a whole bunch of different people.
All in all, a damned good time!
Thanks again to all of those that worked so hard for us.

The Outcome:  The outcome of the HRPT was without a doubt affected by players, although I think the player who had the biggest impact on things still doesn't realize what they did.

Naephet

Who was it?  Was it me?  Was it me?

I know, that's the kind of comment that makes you wonder, hard.

[Sephiroto]

I think it was great.  Much carnage.  I'm glad I got to take a part in this.

[John]

the HRPT was awesome. Where I was people followed orders OOCly, ICly is another story Before this week I had a total of 5 hours, and I STILL got involved in some good shit

[Ueda]

The Outcome:  The outcome of the HRPT was without a doubt affected by players, although I think the player who had the biggest impact on things still doesn't realize what they did.

Naephet

Who was it?  Was it me?  Was it me?

I know, that's the kind of comment that makes you wonder, hard.

It had too be me!  :wink:

[Medena]

I don't know about you guys, but I had the most intense 3 hours of my life for that HRPT. The duration was perfect. Everything was perfect.

Cut to:  Scene from Apocalypse Now.
Sound: Fade in The Doors singing "This is the End, my only friend, the End."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  Who else had that flash when they saw the name Jim Morrison?

Medena

[Rindan]

You people have to be fucking kidding me.  I have no clue where the fuck you were, but I can safely say that at least in one corner of the world the carnage was incredible.  Not only was the carnage awesome, but the RP was great.  Everything from horror to fear to bravery was played out.  Maybe I just got stuck in the middle of the good stuff, but I can safely say that were I was I am salivating to know what is going to happen next because some very fucking big changes occurred.  In fact, if even half of the other rumors I have heard are true, big things have happened that I was not apart of.

In some places in the world things might have been slow, but let me assure you that there was at least one place in the world where the action was desperate, the RP great, and some characters that are going to be touched forever.

Before you complain, just wait for a post HRPT report.  I am sure the imms will post a 'what you would know' type rumor at some point that will sum up the changes in the world.  Perhaps one piss hole corner of the world was unaffected, but not all of it for sure.

[Cuttlefish]

I had a great time and the reason it bit so much when I died (see other thread) was because I wanted to keep playing and enjoy it!  Nothing like staring at the mantis while you know other people are having a blast.  It's enough to tempt one to break the rules and have a backup character on another account so they could at least experience the RPT after the other guy is toast.

I think, overall, it was well done.  I wouldn't have died if it weren't for the unfortunate sequence of events caused by someone else's typo.

The main suggestion I have that I'll have to email in is that the guards don't emote a sheathe/draw combo so much.  Here's a sample:

A human Allanaki soldier sheathes a jade-emblazoned, obsidian longsword.
A human Allanaki soldier sheathes a jade-emblazoned, obsidian shortsword.
A human Allanaki soldier attempts to grab you, but you wrestle away.
A human Allanaki soldier draws a jade-emblazoned, obsidian longsword.
A human Allanaki soldier draws a jade-emblazoned, obsidian shortsword.
A human Allanaki soldier slashes at you, but you dodge out of the way.
A human Allanaki soldier solidly pierces your arm.
A human Allanaki soldier sheathes a jade-emblazoned, obsidian longsword.
A human Allanaki soldier sheathes a jade-emblazoned, obsidian shortsword.
A human Allanaki soldier draws a jade-emblazoned, obsidian longsword.
A human Allanaki soldier draws a jade-emblazoned, obsidian shortsword.
A human Allanaki soldier slashes you, barely grazing your body.
A human Allanaki soldier pierces your leg.
The [deleted] heroically joins a human Allanaki soldier's fight!


If it had just said this:
A human Allanaki soldier attempts to grab you, but you wrestle away.
A human Allanaki soldier slashes at you, but you dodge out of the way.
A human Allanaki soldier solidly pierces your arm.
A human Allanaki soldier slashes you, barely grazing your body.
A human Allanaki soldier pierces your leg.
The [deleted] heroically joins a human Allanaki soldier's fight!

I would have noticed a lot sooner that I was being attacked.  As it was, this added to pages of spam, including about three thousand other lines of draw/sheathes (okay, exaggerating a little

[Ueda]

I'm very very mad I lost what happened. (All the spam I couldn't read cause it was going 1,000,000 miles an hour) I lost it due to a bug in my zmud client! At least I got to roll it out to the end. The PC's let me emote things for like 10 RL minutes before they killed my knocked out body. I hope that wasn't to IC<

[Carnage]

I think thats a little to IC. But he wasn't the only one:( Thats another thing I think we should adress uber buff PC's but I would probably just get lost in conversation.

I don't think you know what I'm referring to. It certainly wasn't a PC that reeked all of that damage.

[Cuttlefish]

Heh heh.  I was logging everything.  Now I'm reading the logs to actually try to understand everything I couldn't possibly read as it was happening.

[I Have Steel]

This was my first HRPT...

And I loved it.

I think this is the best use of the think command that I've ever made out with my character, and seeing what he/she saw, this is going to be great for my development for as long as the character lives.

*applauds* Very kick ass!

[Rindan]

This was my first HRPT...

And I loved it.

I think this is the best use of the think command that I've ever made out with my character, and seeing what he/she saw, this is going to be great for my development for as long as the character lives.

*applauds* Very kick ass!

Truly.  I know that in my neck of the woods there are going to be a lot of people who are going to have their fair share of nightmares.  If you were in one of the places where very scary things happened, be sure to consider how it would affect your character.  A lot of people should be having a hard time sleeping at night.

[Ueda]

This was my first HRPT...And I loved it.
I think this is the best use of the think command that I've ever made out with my character, and seeing what he/she saw, this is going to be great for my development for as long as the character lives.

Not only that but it helps you get into the Arm aspect, I have been playing about 1&1/2 years now and I know this will help me think about things.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I personally was extremely impressed to see how much effort the staff put in to correcting so many problems from past HRPTs.

From where my character stood, I could see that there had been forethought put into how some of the major battles were going to be handled, in a way that didn't overwhelm the players with spam, lag, and death.

Seeing as the HRPT previous to this one was one big disorganized slaughter of the playerbase, I pretty much expected the same result with this one. I'm glad I was surprised. It really feels good to know that an effort was made to improve on things, even if things still didn't run perfectly. Obviously, there can still be improvements made to how major battles are handled, and Nessalin has already encouraged us all to write into the MUD account with comments. I'm going to do exactly that.

While I realize some people are upset with how the HRPT turned out, I think the most productive way to handle that frustration is to write up a detailed report on all the things that you feel could use some improvement, and send it into the staff account. Having actually -seen- the staff make an effort to run things more smoothly this time gives me hope that they'll also read up on a lot of the feedback they get.

I really, sincerely, have to thank the staff for all the preparation put into the HRPT, on both a plot and code level of running the show. I think the plot was great, and the limitations of the code were dealt with in a much more intelligent way than previously. Acknowledging that the Arm code isn't meant for one-room-mass-warfare is really a huge step in the right direction.

[Green Sparkles]

I loved the effort put into the RP and I personally had a lot of fun (even though it ended badly. I know I should have zigged when I really zagged and could have seen more of the effort). Thank you staff for the work (wish there was a way to SEE everything that happened. Is there a 'watcher' spot someone could have? You know a fly on the wall admin spot with absolutely no power except to observe?).

Anyway, what bothers me in real life about this discussion is the talk about wanting to see more CARNAGE! While I love the harsh RP aspects of this game, to actually WANT to RP this game to see it is at some level disturbing. I cant tell you how much you make me think you are some kind of wack-job if you actually like carnage and judge your experience on that. I cant think of anything positive that comes out of a desire to see something so brutal. If you were to desire intense RP that is one thing. Desire to see someone killed or maimed and all that goes with it makes me feel there are other forces at work in this player base that cast a dark cloud over it.

[witchman]

I thought the HRPT went well and was a lot of fun.

For those who complain about the spam and low danger risk, I  can't imagine what you were doing.  Obviously you weren't busy "becoming" your character, eh?

While I wasn't personally involved in much of what was happening simply talking with / reacting to so many different characters and RP a vast array of emotions and working with my clan mates was a great RP experience.

If this HRPT didn't help you figure out who your character was more than you felt you knew before, I'm sorry that you missed your chance.  Maybe next time?

Oh, and the sweat, the gore, the death and whatnot.  That was nice too.

I believe, however, that a decent HRPT could be run without anything from the immortals other than some huge zone/area emits and perhaps animating a couple choice NPCs.

The real game is all about the PCs.

[Bogre]

I loved the effort put into the RP and I personally had a lot of fun (even though it ended badly. I know I should have zigged when I really zagged and could have seen more of the effort).

There was a point when I could have zigged or zagged too, and I don't know if it was worth it to stay and watch the climatic happenings or get my tail out of there.

That was a great feeling. My char decided to follow the better part of valour and hightailed it, and then watched what appeared to be the aftereffects of what was happening.

The point I'm making is that the feeling and want to stay (like the feeling that draws you too the side of a cliff) creates a choice you have to make, which is a really interesting part of Armageddon.

[Anonymous]

During the event, it would be nice if the boards in taverns and such were updated with roumers concerning the event to reflect the VNPC's knowledge of what's going on.  

For people who came in half way though, or people wondering what happened after the fact.  Seems that I was very close to action during the hrpt but had little clue because I was surrounded by other people had no clue (who hence couldn't donate a clue to me).  

Seems like players who knew what was going on were a: running far far away  b: at ground-zero.  In either case they were unavailable to pass information on to the rest of us.

[Bestatte]

Maybe it was just the place you were in, but where I was, information -was- being passed to both people involved, and not involved in the action. It was being passed by PCs, to people who were intentionally staying in safe places, just so they'd know what was going on, and when it was safe to come out again.

If the area you're in didn't have that kind of network, then either it wasn't appropriate for you to know, or none of the players thought to keep you informed. Or maybe you were in a remote enough location that you -wouldn't- know what was going on anyway.

But if you were in a city tavern, I'd say probably you just missed hearing it because the people passing info had already been there before you showed up and left, or some other matter of bad timing.

[Rindan]

I personally wouldn't mind it if the boards were kept a little more up to date.  Stuff that absolutely everyone should know, like an explosion or a clearly visable fire really should be known to all.  People might miss the area echos because they are off line, but people never vanish, they would have seen it an known about it, even if they did not have the details.

I think that some PC leaders (namely nobility and templars) should be posting in all major locations with a summery that shows word of mouth and official word.  In Allanak for example, there really should have been some sort of official word after the fact and a retelling of public annoucnments that would be common knowledge, IE, Lord Templar Black and Scary announced after some explosions that he needs a force of every able bodied person to come to some location.  There also should be an official afterword, even if the official comment is no comment, that should be mentioned.  Some stuff surrounding the events really should be common knowledge to the populace.

[Bestatte]

I think part of the problem, at least in the north, is that there was only one "post" left on the tavern message boards since the day before the HRPT.

I wished up about it a couple of times, and even "idea'ed" it. Some of this stuff dates back to August. After reading each one again, I'm thinking at least 30 of the 50 posts are so obsolete and trivial they could be removed without anyone losing out. I mean things like "brown-haired man seeks a job with a noble house" when that brown-haired man's been dead since early September.

Normally it ain't no big deal. Considering the HRPT and knowing that not everyone would be participating actively and instead stay in safety in the bar, it would've been a great help if there were a few blank spots to post on.

[a little bird]

I'd just like to say that I died in the HRPT, and I had an absolute BLAST doing it. It was easily one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had on Arm over my entire time playing here. I'm not trying to be a jerk to those who treasure their characters - honestly, I do too - but a big part of the HRPTs being so memorable is that they were huge bloodbaths. I wholly encourage PC death - shit, in war, PEOPLE DIE. PCs included! If you can't deal with losing a character to something so awesome, then you're playing the wrong game!

The only possible complaint about the HRPT I have would* be if the staff really did hold back on killing people just because of the whining that ensues when they do. If it's a world-changing event, change the world! KILL PCS TOO!

(This is based on what others have said. I do not know for a fact as to whether or not players in general were killed or shown mercy, but I would very much opt for the former.)

As far as those complaining here:

Not everyone can be as heavily-involved as the next. There were portions of the playerbase, I'm sure, that had no direct involvement with the HRPT whatsoever. Likewise, there were people - and people you might never expect - that were more involved than you might ever imagine. As always, Arm has a LOT going on behind the scenes that you'll never lay eyes on. Just because to your character the big event was short doesn't mean that - as other have pointed out - it didn't have far-reaching impacts on what goes on even now, or even a month or a year from now.

[Ueda]

Anyway, what bothers me in real life about this discussion is the talk about wanting to see more CARNAGE! While I love the harsh RP aspects of this game, to actually WANT to RP this game to see it is at some level disturbing. I cant tell you how much you make me think you are some kind of wack-job if you actually like carnage and judge your experience on that. I cant think of anything positive that comes out of a desire to see something so brutal. If you were to desire intense RP that is one thing. Desire to see someone killed or maimed and all that goes with it makes me feel there are other forces at work in this player base that cast a dark cloud over it.

No way, your kidding ... I love it when you can do all those nasty things you said! I don't see what makes them -wrong-.