Karma Regeneration Notification Question

[Krath]

Would it be possible to implement, if there is not already an option, to receive an email notification when your karma has regenerated?

[Dresan]

Can't you just check whenever you log in? 

[Derain]

I would like to see a thing that says your karma will fully regenerate on X days

[Krath]

Can't you just check whenever you log in? 

You are absolutely correct, however, for the subset of players that want to wait for their karma to regenerate to play the role they want to play, rather than a throw me away, it would be convenient.

Your suggestion works for players that are fine sinking hours of real life  time into a role they are not truly vested in.

[Cerelum]

Isn't the whole point of Karma regeneration so people don't play, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker?

Or whatever Karma option?

[Krath]

Isn't the whole point of Karma regeneration so people don't play, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker?

Or whatever Karma option?

I am not sure, but I think so. Staff would have to give the official answer for that question Cerelum. Lets assume that is the case.

How does sending an email, notifying a player when their karma has regenerated, have anything to do with what is proposed?

[Cerelum]

Isn't the whole point of Karma regeneration so people don't play, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker?

Or whatever Karma option?

I am not sure, but I think so. Staff would have to give the official answer for that question Cerelum. Lets assume that is the case.

How does sending an email, notifying a player when their karma has regenerated, have anything to do with what is proposed?

Forgive me for assuming, but I would only assume that this mattered if say you rolled a Magicker for 2 or 3 Karma, died before it regenerated and wanted to play another Magicker.

If the non-karma required options are not interesting to you to play, or invest 45 days or whatever it takes to regenerate Karma to full, isn't that the same as skirting around the karma regeneration mechanic?

[Krath]

Isn't the whole point of Karma regeneration so people don't play, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker, Magicker?

Or whatever Karma option?

I am not sure, but I think so. Staff would have to give the official answer for that question Cerelum. Lets assume that is the case.

How does sending an email, notifying a player when their karma has regenerated, have anything to do with what is proposed?

Forgive me for assuming, but I would only assume that this mattered if say you rolled a Magicker for 2 or 3 Karma, died before it regenerated and wanted to play another Magicker.

If the non-karma required options are not interesting to you to play, or invest 45 days or whatever it takes to regenerate Karma to full, isn't that the same as skirting around the karma regeneration mechanic?

I do not think it is skirting around anything. It not like, receiving an email telling you your karma has regenerated makes your karma come back faster.

I am not a supporter of making a character just for the sake of making one while you wait for what you want to play to become available. If you enjoy playing only ESGs, MSGs, Racial selections (Delves, Muls, HGs), PSI or Sorcs, then play those roles, if you do not then don't.

Having the email does two things:

1. For the players that do want to invest RL time on a role they are not 100% vested in, it gives them notification that karma is available to use if they wish to.
and
2. For the players that do not want to invest RL time on a role they are not 100% vested in, it gives them notification that karma is available to use if they wish to.

[Derain]

Krath is correct in everything he said here my honest question is why if we didn't need to be baby sat for 20 years did we suddenly need to and 120 days in my
Opinion to regen fully is ridiculous for a game.

[Sokotra]

Can't you still log in, without a character, and check your race/guild options?  I believe so.  Also, if you feel you deserve to play a certain race/guild with a karma requirement, can you not submit a request to do so?

[Krath]

I did not start this thread to talk about why the karma regeneration addition to the game does or does not suck.

There was a time, correct me if. I am wrong, where you had to log in to find out when/if your character was approved. All I am saying is it would be convenient to have this option.

Also another question, if I log in to just check my karma, does that quantify as an active log in? If so, my issue with that is it is misrepresenting the number of active players in a given period of time.

[Riev]

I see no problem with what Krath is asking.

If I use my Karma for an extended subguild and it dies, and I have a REALLY cool idea for a magicker I want to play, but I have to wait 30 days... an email saying "You've regenerated 1 point of karma in ArmageddonMud! This brings your total up to <total>! Here's to a great role!" wouldn't be terrible.

"You can log in and check it" is a valid response, but that isn't the point. Not everyone plays Armageddon every day, or even every week even WITH an active character. The email is a fine, neutral suggestion, that doesn't change the way you play the game. It just acts as a reminder that something has happened to your account, like Approvals, Deaths, and Resolved Requests.

[lairos]

While even a time could be listed on your account giving you a date or a day countdown until your next karma regenerates would be awesome? I think an email could serve a couple different purposes. As it stands, you get an email when you EARN another karma point. Though if a player died and was upset and went away or whatever other circumstance? What if that email saying a point has become available is what brings the player back to playing? Do you think they are likely to send a request or bother to login to check? If a thing like an email could help bring players back, much like the attempt was at sending kudos to even old characters to see if maybe it hit a player who wasn't playing? Why not this?

[th3kaiser]

Literally no reason not to do this. There's a bunch of us old people that don't want to play random warrior #212 and grind away for 30 hours on a character we feel "meh" about. That email would simply be a nice reminder. Oh hey, you have your karma back maybe you want to make a thing and help populate our game! I mean, I've been taking breaks between karma regens now and I can't imagine I'm the only one who's waiting for it before playing again.


Also Cerelum, as an FYI using two Karma takes 75 days to regen. 3 karma takes 120. So we're not talking about tiny waits here.

[Veselka]

Yep. It's a twofer punch. One, lets you know where your karma is at. Two, gives the Staff an opportunity to reconnect with players who haven't played for a bit, remind them the game is around, and encourage them to log back in.

[Cerelum]

Yeah I assumed this was a feature asked purely so people would only play when they had their 2 or 3 karma available.

While I am not against an email for this stuff, I would say that I'd rather have you half ass play a character who's mundane in every way and my character has a chance to interact with, than to simply not play for 120 days because your mul cant be apped till then.

If we had 100+ players logging on every day at all hours then sure.  But the current state of the game is that I can wander to every bar in the city, including the rinth and not see someone because they are either in a clan location or off outside doing shit.

So that's my only hesitation to this line of thinking, I too love Magickers and special shit, but feel it would be a disservice to others to not have my random mundane running around.

[Derain]

I believe karma regen hurts the game more than it helps the game.

[Riev]

Yeah I assumed this was a feature asked purely so people would only play when they had their 2 or 3 karma available.

While I am not against an email for this stuff, I would say that I'd rather have you half ass play a character who's mundane in every way and my character has a chance to interact with, than to simply not play for 120 days because your mul cant be apped till then.

If we had 100+ players logging on every day at all hours then sure.  But the current state of the game is that I can wander to every bar in the city, including the rinth and not see someone because they are either in a clan location or off outside doing shit.

So that's my only hesitation to this line of thinking, I too love Magickers and special shit, but feel it would be a disservice to others to not have my random mundane running around.

I think for the third time, this needs to be reiterated.

People waiting for their karma to regenerate aren't always playing a PC right now to begin with.
People asking for an email to ping them when they DO regenerate a point/all their karma are just asking for a way to be told, externally, that there are changes to their player account.
We already email in the case of kudos, other requests, PC death, and have on occasion sent out emails to "old" players informing them of changes to the game.

I know you mean it with good intentions, Cerelum, but it is an asshole's way of thinking that you would "rather someone half-ass a character they don't want to play" so that YOU have interaction, vs someone playing that role they've been thinking about for 2 months.

[Alesan]

It's really a shame how expensive extended subguilds can be. I can't imagine everyone is constantly waiting on playing another mul/HG/supermage/whatever.

Is it really necessary to have to wait over two months to be able to play another Outdoorsman?

[Riev]

It's really a shame how expensive extended subguilds can be. I can't imagine everyone is constantly waiting on playing another mul/HG/supermage/whatever.

Is it really necessary to have to wait over two months to be able to play another Outdoorsman?

Without wishing to start an argument over it, there has been a shift towards PC longevity driving plot points and staff interaction. Some sponsored roles require the PC to be around for a RL year before 'serious changes' happen.
To me, it just shifts to less risky gameplay, because while your PC might think its okay to engage that gortok den, you know OOCly that you'll have to wait 2 months to play another extended subguild PC or magicker if you make that decision.

On topic, though, sometimes players take breaks. I often would take 2-3 month breaks between PCs because I wasn't feeling it after a particularly long-lived or leadership role. If I got an email after a couple months, reminding me that I can now play that 3 karma magicker I've been thinking about, that might be enough to reinvigorate my creative process.

[roughneck]

Is it really necessary to have to wait over two months to be able to play another Outdoorsman?

It made more sense with the old guilds and before the extended subs got re-worked, because the extended subs gave more powerful combinations. However, at that time there was no regen period, ironically.

I don't think the current combinations give the power to warrant a 10 week regen time. I'm not a heavy consistent playtime player anymore though, so I'm overall ambivalent. There's also some pretty effective regular subclasses.

From a player retention standpoint, the regen system is counterproductive. Arm is more of a habit than it is anything else. When you create any kind of incentive for players to not play (like waiting for CGP), you create an opportunity for the player to replace their Arm habit with a new habit during their break (probably with a different game habit).

[Cerelum]

As an email I'm totally fine with that part.

However, I do have to say since I've been back playing here last three months or so, I have ran into more witches, more muls and more psionicists than ever before.

I literally watched a handful of people die, asked how they died to find out they were a secret witch, or suspected mindbender etc.

Now this is all ic perception and such, but it seems like everyone is a special character I've ran into.

However, I do think that if half of what was suspected and such was correct in the witch category, then maybe the regen is good because if all those secret witches just roll another secret witch it's just a long line of secret witches.

I think my character actually thought.

Think Are there any regular fucking humans in Allanak?

Disclaimer: If this seems a little oddly written or confusing, I am under the influence of narcotics currently.

[rinthrat]

As an email I'm totally fine with that part.

However, I do have to say since I've been back playing here last three months or so, I have ran into more witches, more muls and more psionicists than ever before.

I literally watched a handful of people die, asked how they died to find out they were a secret witch, or suspected mindbender etc.

Now this is all ic perception and such, but it seems like everyone is a special character I've ran into.

However, I do think that if half of what was suspected and such was correct in the witch category, then maybe the regen is good because if all those secret witches just roll another secret witch it's just a long line of secret witches.

I think my character actually thought.

Think Are there any regular fucking humans in Allanak?

Disclaimer: If this seems a little oddly written or confusing, I am under the influence of narcotics currently.

They might have been secret witches or mindbenders. Or maybe it's currently a popular excuse to murder people. Most likely, it's a mix of both.

[Derain]

It wasn't a problem for 20 years. ALSO it was always a rule of thumb not to roll back to back mages or HGs etc.

[lairos]

I suspect a combination myself. The reason there are more hidden witches now than before is because there is far more ability to be a hidden witch since they are now subs rather than full magickers. You can hide a lot easier and there is far more playability and less restriction to remain a rogue than their is in getting a gem.

If someone want's to wait to have their karma back to play what they want to play? If they are burnt out and need a break? I would much rather someone take the time and play what they want then play something half assed because all that will do is spawn more complaints. To get back on the topic, an email would still serve to help benefit the game and the playerbase. This email doesn't seem like an outlandish request and is far more compromising than asking for the regen to be done away with completely.

[th3kaiser]

If someone want's to wait to have their karma back to play what they want to play? If they are burnt out and need a break? I would much rather someone take the time and play what they want then play something half assed because all that will do is spawn more complaints. To get back on the topic, an email would still serve to help benefit the game and the playerbase. This email doesn't seem like an outlandish request and is far more compromising than asking for the regen to be done away with completely.

Agreed. I personally think the regen is a terrible idea and pretty well loathe it. But this would simply be a nice addition since I don't think that's changing. We have an aging player base a lot of whom don't have time for PCs they aren't excited about.  (The variety of area/mage/tribe/clan options to play that we lost don't help either. I miss being able to hate our lost Tuluki brethren)

[lostinspace]

With the karma Regen mechanic and the longer average life of PCs I am almost always going to spend it when I have it. Not spending it means for the entire lifetime of that character it's not regenerating and going unused.

Also with magic subguilds staff straight up said it was to make mages characters first and gicks second. I have no qualms rolling back to back mages now. In the past I always alternated between mundanes and special characters. Now that just seems like a waste of karma.

[Derain]

The other huge issue is people play safe and avoid plots and death or danger. I am starting to want to back away I may wait for my Karma to regen this time.

[Vex]

Yeah I assumed this was a feature asked purely so people would only play when they had their 2 or 3 karma available.

While I am not against an email for this stuff, I would say that I'd rather have you half ass play a character who's mundane in every way and my character has a chance to interact with, than to simply not play for 120 days because your mul cant be apped till then.

If we had 100+ players logging on every day at all hours then sure.  But the current state of the game is that I can wander to every bar in the city, including the rinth and not see someone because they are either in a clan location or off outside doing shit.

So that's my only hesitation to this line of thinking, I too love Magickers and special shit, but feel it would be a disservice to others to not have my random mundane running around.

Not everyone places so little value on their free time, as to slog through something they don't enjoy.

"For the game!" is not a valid argument in any discussion, when in virtually every situation, neither players nor staff care about your experience, even when you are actively playing. Please do understand, the "saints of rp" posturing you see passed around, here on the GDB, are just that. Posturing.

For people to feel a part of something, they need to feel welcomed, respected and appreciated. That is probably only the case for... a very, very small percentage of the playerbase.

Everyone else, plays for themselves or should be, which is fine. The cost of excessive rules and regulations, is lower interest and participation. Here we are. A lot of people don't play, or play for keeps, unless they're running their max karma pc. If no karma, they don't play until they get it back, or play weak throw away pcs. Not how I'd run it, but it is not me paying to keep the lights on, either.

Tbh, everything surrounding karma, seems unnecessary, and counter productive to the nebulous goal of increasing player numbers. The carrot is only enticing, if you actually know you'll eventually enjoy it. Many do not, or in such small doses, it doesn't satisfy.

As for the actual purpose of thread, I see no issue with an e-mail about karmas. For time pressed people, these kinds of things are handy.

[mansa]

Re: email notifications
I like it

Re: change to karma respawn rates
I think data is required to make a smart decision.  Are 3% of accounts waiting for karma regeneration, or 30%?  Is the "I know a few people waiting..." and "I also know a few people waiting" 7 distinct people or the same 3 popular people.

example: There has been 14 distinct GDB accounts posting in this thread and it has 28 replies.  There are 312 views of the thread and there is approx 200 unique players this week.

[Krath]

Re: change to karma respawn rates
I think data is required to make a smart decision.  Are 3% of accounts waiting for karma regeneration, or 30%?  Is the "I know a few people waiting..." and "I also know a few people waiting" 7 distinct people or the same 3 popular people.

example: There has been 14 distinct GDB accounts posting in this thread and it has 28 replies.  There are 312 views of the thread and there is approx 200 unique players this week.

Ok...Data..Something I can work with. I did not intend to discuss this in the thread but now lets look at it.

To get a full comprehensive data set for the above request you would need to do the following

1. Number of Active accounts (designated by accounts that has been active in the last 121 days, based on 120 days to regen 3 full karma)
2. Average weekly Playtime\Activity of Accounts with 0,1,2 and 3 karma
3. Average weekly playtime of 0 karma pcs vs karma pcs
4. Account activity of accounts after karma usage, and karma using PC has died. (This would be used to determine if pcs degrade the amount of time they commit to the game based on if they do or do not have karma available.)

What else am I missing?

[Lizzie]

Average doesn't really help. You'd be better off seeing the actual scale. Where people fall on that scale.  If the long-lived are REDONKULOUSLY long-lived, but there are only a handful of them, and the short-lived are just tolerably short-lived but there were tons of them, then the average will not really tell you anything at all. The same is true in reverse. It also matters WHY they were long or short lived. If they're long-lived because they avoided conflict, stayed under the radar, and preferred crafting bone swords to moving plotlines, then the average will be meaningless. If they're short-lived because they hated their stats and jumped into the silt sea, the average will be meaningless.

[Riev]

Crazy CT Cat Lady does data.

This week's special on ArmHub.

[Bebop]

Just came here to say I think karma regen is damaging.

Some people just want to play magickers.  I NEVER played them when I had the karma.  Just was not for me.  However, it's frustrating when you can't play what you want to play and such a thing makes you often think about quitting *cough* Bards of Poet's Circle.  *cough*

If you earned the karma fine go play magickers.

Also, we don't need more people playing safe.  Especially not people good enough to earn karma.  I wanna see them go wild. 

Finally, Armageddon is the only game in the world that casually drops around months and weeks.  Three months is A LOOOOOOOOONG time, my god.  We're in a tech age.  I mean I get a food delivery every freaking week.  I get my mail in like a day or two.  New games come out all of the time.  I can take my Switch anywhere, play it anytime and we've got Armageddon MUD over here like, just wait a quarter of year to play something you like.  Pfft.  WHAT?!

There seems to be a real disconnect on the concept of games and reward.

You like playing a certain type of character?  Have fun.  You did well?  Here's a promotion, play a powerful person.  Instead, long-term request is met with the removal of the character you enjoy, and karma is rationed even after you've earned it.  And it's not easy to earn!

[Derain]

40 ish people on at peak lately and 14 who think Karma regen hurts the game hmmm.

[mansa]

40 ish people on at peak lately and 14 who think Karma regen hurts the game hmmm.

seriously, you forgot the kermit drinking tea gif

[Riev]

So... about them emails?