I've often thought...

[Cerelum]

That too many IG clans are virtual.

While I understand that it seems like 30-50 players is peak time now, and that's not a lot to support other clans.  It seems like the choices now are as follows:

Indy hunter/Indy hunter group (With ability to one day become something amazing, or die horribly)

Salarr or Kadius

Noble employees.

Law Enforcement (or corruption)

Role calls for things.

Gemmed magicker.

Secret magicker.

Touched magicker (Still don't really know what the hell these actually are.)

When you look at merchant houses for example, there is probably half a dozen that exist and would be fun to play, but they just don't have players.

I sorta wish more tribes were open to players, and more jobs were open to players.

While I understand I can become a merchant and eventually grow into a merchant house and all that, I tend to like the structure behind the established ones in the lore.

Not sure if anyone else feels this way or not, but thought it would be a nice conversation to have.

[MeTekillot]

Touched magicker is a handful of spells and skills and coded quirks and perks.

[PriestlySiren]

You forgot about the Byn.

[Cerelum]

You forgot about the Byn.

The few times I played in the Byn it was just typing time and following a very strict regiment of sparring practice.  I'm sure it's great for making a kickass warrior, but made me want to blow my brains out with boredom.

However this was years ago, so maybe it's not so bad now.

[MeTekillot]

Any clan is boring if all you do is follow every rule they have to the letter.

[Hauwke]

The Byn is only boring if you treat it as boring. Just because you have to be at a certain spot at a certain time doesn't mean it isn't fun. Shit day? Dude ham it the hell up, spend the time emoting super awesome shoveling emotes and try to get into a competition to be the grossest emoter.

Once you hit Trooper?
Actually be a Bynner and talk shit at the Runners. Very few people actually talk proper shit to them. Make them pissy. Their feelings get hurt? Too bad, they paid their coin and are staying in for their year.
As Runners they can't do anything! Plus if your Sergeant is telling you not to do it, it makes for more fun where you can be as sneaky about it as possible to hide your shit talking.

The Byn is barely at all meant to be about sparring all day and escorting an argosy on the weekend. It's about being buddies with half the warband and mortal enemies with the other half because they are trying to take your coin.

[Veselka]

Any clan is boring if all you do is follow every rule they have to the letter.

And I think any PC is boring if you let it. I've played in clans and been bored silly, and played in the same clan and been entertained to no end. It really depends on who's in it with you, the mixture of personalities, and what's going on in the game.

As to the OP, I don't think having more watered down clans is the solution. I think you're recently returned to the game (it seems). Give a few different roles a shot. If it doesn't seem to fit, with the PC's you're playing around in that type of role, try something different. Try a Bynner, then try an Aide, then try an indy hunter, then try a thief, then try a soldier. There's plenty of options.

You also left out Kurac/The Garrison. The Guild. Criminals in general.

[Cind]

I love being a grebber. I played with someone who bored their brains out doing it.

Clanned life just isn't for some people. There are slow times where people start using their phone or watching youtube. There are times like this in indie life too, but its the style people generally start out as so its easier to recognize a slow time and deal with the boredom before it hits your brain.

If the Byn is boring you, that sort of tells me that most clans would bore you if only for the fact that when I played in the Byn, there was always someone to talk to and always something to do. But, some people just hate being in a GMH. Some people hate being Byn. Some people, like me, can't stand to aide. Some people deal with it by running out of the gates screaming. They forgot to steal everything that isn't nailed down first.

Each clan is actually quite different from the others. Some would say Salaar and Kadius are similar, but I would say they aren't, because the type of customers each caters is different most of the time, and Kadius tends to handle the orders for new items that are completely random, such as dragon statuettes and enameled fancy dice. Why? Because no one else is really qualified to do it, and because they've been making those sorts of things since way before I started playing.

So, you didn't like the Byn. No problem, lots of other options out there. What I mean is each clan is different from all the others. You might find a forever home if you're wiling to use the scientific method and keep looking.

[Eyeball]

..Byn.. I'm sure it's great for making a kickass warrior,

Not so much anymore.

[Cerelum]

..Byn.. I'm sure it's great for making a kickass warrior,

Not so much anymore.

Well Warriors don't exist anymore, so it makes something else... But I get what you're saying.

[Eyeball]

..Byn.. I'm sure it's great for making a kickass warrior,

Not so much anymore.

Well Warriors don't exist anymore, so it makes something else... But I get what you're saying.

Not so much for making anyone kick-ass in combat anymore, really. That was discussed in another thread though.

[MeTekillot]

I haven't had any trouble getting moderately kickass in sparring. Not more than I had before the nebulous changes that some GDBers are seeing as a nerf, anyway.

[Hauwke]

The problem people appear to be having with sparring, Eyeball included. Is that the further you are away from Heavy Combat, the slower it seems you get off and def gains as well as the fact that the closer you are to it the faster you get them. Which makes complete sense to me.

[Namino]

Sparring is still an effective way to gain skill if someone in your clan is close to your skill level. The issue arises when you're taking your twinking seriously and nobody else is, because then eventually your only option is to have everyone else play catchup on you until ya'll can start Luigi-laddering once more.

[Eyeball]

Sparring is still an effective way to gain skill if someone in your clan is close to your skill level.

Is it? A recent character trained for a year, largely with the same other character. After the first game month, nothing budged further.

The issue arises when you're taking your twinking seriously and nobody else is, because then eventually your only option is to have everyone else play catchup on you until ya'll can start Luigi-laddering once more.

Here we go again. Anyone trying for an effective combat character is a twink. Let's all just be good little disposable semi-competent pawns?

[Namino]

Sparring is still an effective way to gain skill if someone in your clan is close to your skill level.

Is it? A recent character trained for a year, largely with the same other character. After the first game month, nothing budged further.

I branched trident off sparring on a character about a year back.

Again, you have to do a couple of tricks but if you have someone at your own level and you both tick your skills at the same time (ie, nobody gets greedy and trains without the other), you can permanently skill up forever. Slows down majorly but it's actually probably the most effective remaining strat.

[Eyeball]

I branched trident off sparring on a character about a year back.

Which predates the offense/defense/weapon skills changes that Brokkr described, I believe.

[Namino]

I branched trident off sparring on a character about a year back.

Which predates the offense/defense/weapon skills changes that Brokkr described, I believe.

It predated the new classes but I don't think the mechanism of skill increase has changed since then, just the rate of increase for certain classes and their starting points.

From a hypothetical standpoint, sparring is still effective.

Player A hits players B, increasing their defense. B is now more likely to dodge.
Player B dodges A, increasing their offense, making them more effective at hitting B at their new defense.

It's obviously not so clean because gaining a single point of defense doesn't change your dodge rate to 100%, but you can still see how sparring with the same person as long as you level out your approximate skill levels means you can slowly but consistently skill up forever. As soon as one person's offense ticks, the other guys defense ticks too, and eventually you get to a stable state increase.

A very slow increase because they might dodge you once every 10 attacks, but it is possible, especially if you're trading off ep/etwo offense/defense.

[Cind]

I'm not qualified to post in this one, but... obviously, life in Zalanthas is short, people die fast, and there's almost no 'badasses' walking around, just people who happen to have journeyman weapon skills and maxed tactical skills.

I'm not an achiever, but I'm a completionist, so I think I would lose my damn mind playing a warrior-type and hoping to get to master, because I'm certainly no speedrunner. No min-maxing for me, no lying down in the sands while fighting. The furthest I've ever gone to the enlightened side is a gurth that was being kept in an alleyway for sparring use by the trading group, brought there by someone other than myself.

What I'm trying to say is that everyone dies too fast for people not to be able to have the option to get to master weapons skills, in two styles (for example, piercing and chopping) without doing these stupid tactics people have mentioned that I would have never figured out on my own, as combat is never my main focus in the game. Indeed, what about the people that don't study war for a living? How are we supposed to figure out the incredibly stupid tricks that allow a few people who weren't caught doing them to get to advanced weapons?

[Feco]

The furthest I've ever gone to the enlightened side is a gurth that was being kept in an alleyway for sparring use by the trading group, brought there by someone other than myself.

[Namino]

The furthest I've ever gone to the enlightened side is a gurth that was being kept in an alleyway for sparring use by the trading group, brought there by someone other than myself.

I once found out someone had dragged a turaal into the dark cells under the Kuraci arena in Luirs in order to blindfight it permanently until the next reset.

That's the worst I ever experienced.

[Riev]

I'm a little jealous I never went that far. Worst I ever did was subdue and drag a gizhat to a more 'safe' spot in the grasslands, so I could learn how to wrestle larger beasts. I should have thought to do that with a turaal into a jail cell... damn.

[Cerelum]

Worst I've heard is chalton being subdued and dragged into an apartment, some of the twink described her is legendary.

[Riev]

On topic though, its a matter of perspective:

A lot of clans ARE virtual.

Some people feel that having a bunch of open clans, even if it means only 1-2 PCs might ever be in them, increases drama and intersectional needs.

Some people feel that the better approach is to have a few open clans, with higher population numbers that allow for more chances for the clan needs to cross over and involve multiple PCs. This is why Borsail and Oash are always open (oppositional houses) as opposed to opening Tor, Academy, Rennik, Nenyuk, etc... because Borsail and Oash will always hate each other.

I'm in the first camp. I'd rather there just be one random ass leader role and it is up to them to decide how that role intersects with the other open ones. However, I hear staff has a hard time keeping up with some of their workflow as it is (too hard), so introducing 3-4 more clans worth of leadership PCs would just add to it, and we'd end up with too many Cooks.