Throw Skill Feedback

[Cerelum]

After thinking about it and all the nuances of it now I see that it's a design feature and not a realism thing.

Good explainations all around, hopefully this hasn't been too revealing code wise.

Now my only feedback is that you should see the knock down message in the throw hit message.

But I also guess that's an opportunity to train watch maybe?

If it's outside of magick and rangers I'm a fuckin noob.

[X-D]

While I think you should see the throw knockdown message...if you really pay attention while at high skill, you will likely figure out there is no real need to be told either.

[Namino]

While I think you should see the throw knockdown message...if you really pay attention while at high skill, you will likely figure out there is no real need to be told either.

^

You're in obligate delay for ~6 seconds after you throw where one of the few things you can still do is look in the direction you threw. May as well spend the down time checking on the target. :d

[Dresan]

I think the delay should be only before....

However:

• The moment you begin to throw, the act of aiming a throwing weapon at a person should get you crim flagged. 
• The delay should not not break hide, only the act of throwing would break hide and would get you crim flagged.

A bit more advantage when used with stealth, slightly less so when used without. With the changes to stealth, not everyone has great stealth without prioritizing agility over strength.

[Jihelu]

I think the delay should be only before....

However:

• The moment you begin to throw, the act of aiming a throwing weapon at a person should get you crim flagged. 
• The delay should not not break hide, only the act of throwing would break hide and would get you crim flagged.

A bit more advantage when used with stealth, slightly less so when used without. With the changes to stealth, not everyone has great stealth without prioritizing agility over strength.

Me likey.

[Cerelum]

I think the delay should be only before....

However:

• The moment you begin to throw, the act of aiming a throwing weapon at a person should get you crim flagged. 
• The delay should not not break hide, only the act of throwing would break hide and would get you crim flagged.

A bit more advantage when used with stealth, slightly less so when used without. With the changes to stealth, not everyone has great stealth without prioritizing agility over strength.

I'm not a fan, it's already STUPID easy to get crim flagged.

[Dresan]

Well you want to give people who aren't combat heavy a chance too assuming they've taken the precaution of staying alert and are in a 'relatively' safe and busy law protected environment.

Basically my proposal makes throw slightly more useful as a starting tactic for those invested in agility/stealth(less damage) and slightly less useful to the PCs that have not invested as much in those supporting skills/stats within law protect areas.   

[Inks]

I have used throw a lot, in fact it is my favorite skill. If you reduced delay so you can your ninja star flurry it would be obscenely powerful. As things stand it is a good skill.

[Cerelum]

The watch command is your friend.

I've used the watch command after seeing this message and literally got no message about the critter falling down.

would be like

Watch north
throw knife thing n
All I get is two messages saying my knife hit the thing up north.

Look N
Thing is sitting here bleeding heavily.

So I definitely think the fall down message needs to show in the throw hit message.

[Medena]

The watch command is your friend.

I've used the watch command after seeing this message and literally got no message about the critter falling down.

would be like

Watch north
throw knife thing n
All I get is two messages saying my knife hit the thing up north.

Look N
Thing is sitting here bleeding heavily.

So I definitely think the fall down message needs to show in the throw hit message.

That's weird.  I always see something like this:

Code Select Expand

>watch e
You begin watching the east exit.

>throw knife unicorn e
You take aim at your target...

You hurl a raptor-tooth throwing knife east.
To the east: a raptor-tooth throwing knife flies in from the west and strikes a unicorn's body.
You see a raptor-tooth throwing knife strike a unicorn's body.
To the east: a unicorn stumbles to the ground.


Sorry if I steered you wrong.

[Seeker]

Code Select Expand

>watch e
You begin watching the east exit.

>throw knife unicorn e
You take aim at your target...

You hurl a raptor-tooth throwing knife east.
To the east: a raptor-tooth throwing knife flies in from the west and strikes a [b]unicorn's[/b] body.
You see a raptor-tooth throwing knife strike a [b]unicorn's[/b] body.
To the east: a [b]unicorn[/b]stumbles to the ground.


Damn it, Medena!

[Feco]

Can confirm:

You take aim at your target...

You hurl a balanced, crown-pommeled knife north.
To the north: a balanced, crown-pommeled knife flies in from the south and strikes the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
You see a balanced, crown-pommeled knife strike the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
To the north: the hobbled, grey-skinned man stumbles to the ground.

[Cerelum]

Can confirm:

You take aim at your target...

You hurl a balanced, crown-pommeled knife north.
To the north: a balanced, crown-pommeled knife flies in from the south and strikes the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
You see a balanced, crown-pommeled knife strike the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
To the north: the hobbled, grey-skinned man stumbles to the ground.

Could be my watch skill just sucks and I missed it then.

[Feco]

Can confirm:

You take aim at your target...

You hurl a balanced, crown-pommeled knife north.
To the north: a balanced, crown-pommeled knife flies in from the south and strikes the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
You see a balanced, crown-pommeled knife strike the hobbled, grey-skinned man's leg.
To the north: the hobbled, grey-skinned man stumbles to the ground.

Could be my watch skill just sucks and I missed it then.

I didn't think of that.  I guess that's possible!

[perfecto]

One thing I would like to see for the throw command is for it to be accessed during hand to hand combat.  (in the current state it will not let you throw the spear your wielding at the target you're fighting in the same room at the same time)   Yes it would generally leave you defenseless in doing so, but I think it could be a wonderful "Hail Mary" for someone with a good throw skill in the dire moments we've all been through.  I think the same delay that's in game now should hold true, you stop, take aim, and if you get hit before you get your throw off it should interrupt the throw.  Let's face it, we've all seen a movie or 50 where some dude is fighting for his life and grabs something handy at the last second and throws it into his assailants skull for the win! 

[Veselka]

Or to throw your weapon at another assailant during an attack. Say, mass combat, and you toss your spear at someone you aren't fighting, then draw a new weapon.

[Hauwke]

You wouldn't believe the number of times I have wanted to be able to throw a warhammer at a guy midfite no joke.

[Riev]

I find myself on board with the ability to throw in-combat.
Let it provoke an Attack of Opporunity/free hit.

I would love to do a hail mary "throw the spear at their chest" maneuver, only to miss, lag me out, and be unable to pick up my weapon.

Or as Veselka said... see your friend fighting that gith, so you throw your spear at the gith to knock it down, and draw your scimitar to finish off the one you're fighting.

[Jihelu]

Throw should give an OA in combat if it misses, if you hit regularly there should be a /slight chance/ of an OA but it should be harder to do from an IC standpoint as being hit with a fucking spear is kinda shitty, however it shouldn't slow combat down much.

Knocking them down shouldn't provoke an OA at all.

[Feco]

One thing I would like to see for the throw command is for it to be accessed during hand to hand combat.  (in the current state it will not let you throw the spear your wielding at the target you're fighting in the same room at the same time)   Yes it would generally leave you defenseless in doing so, but I think it could be a wonderful "Hail Mary" for someone with a good throw skill in the dire moments we've all been through.  I think the same delay that's in game now should hold true, you stop, take aim, and if you get hit before you get your throw off it should interrupt the throw.  Let's face it, we've all seen a movie or 50 where some dude is fighting for his life and grabs something handy at the last second and throws it into his assailants skull for the win!

PLEASE

[Vex]

Would be fine with in combat throw, if throwing in combat would have NO chance, of knocking a target down.

Throw is really, quite easy to raise, does a LOT of damage with high str (which is, what most people who fight in melee tend to have), and if it could knock down as well, it would REALLY steal the show, from skills like bash. When I have to make the decision, between using my shield for added defense and knock down, or my two hand'er for decisive damage and superior disarms, or dual wield for disarm protection or poison applications, it has a meaningful impact on combat flow.

If I can, just, throw my battleaxe into your face, knock you down, pull out another one directly into etwo, or draw another from my belt whilst dual wielding, there is no trade off. Opportunity attacks mean nothing, to a skilled heavy combat. The knock down lockout from throw is technically shorter than the post throw delay, but, with human error and latency considered, you could, 50/50, immediately pick up your throw weapon, before your opponent can stand up, to enjoy some opportunity attacks. That is excessive. Combat heavies, all get the best master throw, too, so... excessive.

If combat throw did NOT include knockdown, and came with a considerable unbalance effect, such as reducing your dodge chance to 0% for a couple combat rounds, it'd be viable, and a very neat flavor mechanic.

[Jihelu]

I'd be fine with a 'bash' in combat throw just not letting the enemy get to hit you for the normal throw delay, giving you time to draw a weapon but not time to hit them while they are more vulnerable.

[Cerelum]

I have noticed that things stop dodging my knives and shit around journeyman.

[Vex]

I have noticed that things stop dodging my knives and shit around journeyman.

If you have high agility, you need faster, more agile targets.

The rub of high stats, is that you plateau earlier, and require stiffer challenges, to meet your skill up requirements. Everyone wants to be Heracles, but it comes at a cost, yes.

[Cerelum]

Another thing that should be looked at in Throw code.

If you try and throw at someone and they move, you still get the throw delay when it says, You can't see that person there or whatever it says.  Shouldn't give you throw delay unless you actually throw.