Magickal Spook Factor

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Maybe when you kill another mage, you can then engage in a ritual that raises a (victim mage's element) ticker. Once you absorb enough of that element, you gain the ability to choose one fully branchable skill from that element, and the ticker resets. In order for the kill to count, the mage you kill must be of almost equal or stronger power than you.

Perhaps you can sense how strong a mage is with a insta spell. You could pop this in combat, or not. Something with a message along the lines of, "You sense their connection with their element is weak/average/strong." (relative to yourself). This would help you decide whether taking them down was worth it or not.

This would keep newb mages from being ganked by vets - it almost encourages veteran mages to help them get stronger, for betrayal later on. Can you trust your mage friend? Mmmm, think hard.

[Dar]

HP lovecraft galore. I love it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

And if you kill a sorcerer, you raise your mana cap.

[Hauwke]

I am loving these ideas, give mages an excuse, and reason to murder each other besides "He said my third fuckbuddy had an ugly mole on his nose!"

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

It occurs to me that it might be hard to do a ritual on a dead body, since the code treats a dead body as a container. Unless that body had a flag on it telling what element it was, this might be best done when the victim is in critical condition. So the ritual might be a different way to give the victim the mantis head.

Code Select Expand

The Rukkian caster lies here in critical condition.

>em walks in a circle around ~rukkian, drawing a circle and lining it with Krathi runes.
The Krathi killer walks in a circle around the Rukkian caster, drawing a circle and lining it with Krathi runes.

>cast ritual Rukkian
You chant some words, drawing elemental force from the Rukkian caster.
You fail to grasp the elemental force within the Rukkian caster.
The Rukkian caster shivers, pain gnawing through their sub-consciousness.

>em sighs and grasps hold of %rukkian head, placing his thumbs on ^rukkian forehead
The Krathi killer sighs and grasps hold of the Rukkian caster's head, placing his thumbs on his forehead.

>cast ritual Rukkian
You chant some words, drawing elemental force from the Rukkian caster.
You grasp the Rukkian caster's elemental force with your very essence.
The Rukkian caster's body spasms as the last of their breath leaves them.

[Dar]

Or better yet. The coded command can only be activated while the victim is alive and awake and ends when the character dies. This makes it a shitton more complicated, but a fuckload more fun. It'll require significantly more planning, but assures a better death scene.

[Greve]

I'm not sure that creating an incentive for mages to kill other mages will do much to make magick scary for mundanes, which was the original topic here.

Besides, I think it's a little risky to introduce something that lets you "level up" via playerkilling. PvP is best when there's roleplay behind it and worst when it's just done for the sake of it. Killing someone because it gains you spells sounds like the latter. I'd much rather see PvP that happens as a result of events and decisions than PvP that happens because some dude discovered that he'll get +1 power from killing you.

[Riev]

I'm not sure that creating an incentive for mages to kill other mages will do much to make magick scary for mundanes, which was the original topic here.

Besides, I think it's a little risky to introduce something that lets you "level up" via playerkilling. PvP is best when there's roleplay behind it and worst when it's just done for the sake of it. Killing someone because it gains you spells sounds like the latter. I'd much rather see PvP that happens as a result of events and decisions than PvP that happens because some dude discovered that he'll get +1 power from killing you.

This guy RPIs.

Cool ideas, but the thing that makes magick scary is that you don't know if that Gemmed is going to fireball you in front of the entire Gaj for being a dickhead, or if just associating with her is going to make your next child a mutant.

In reality, we don't care. The Templars will take care of any issues, and you don't see a lot of public manifestations anymore. So its just someone to sneer at, but secretly do sexytimes because taboo is cool and magickers have more karma, and more karma CLEARLY == better mudsex.

You want spooky mages? Give each one a coded curse that the can put on someone. Still initiates law code, but now that person is LEGIT FUCKED for a day or two, and they'll think about their words next time. Doesn't need to be a "can't walk, game unplayable" kind of curse, but something... visible. Vivs cause visible blemishes, Krathis cause painless-but-horrid-looking burn marks, etc.

Make it so that magickers can do shit to you without having to kill you, but a reason to hate them.

[MeTekillot]

I'm not sure that creating an incentive for mages to kill other mages will do much to make magick scary for mundanes, which was the original topic here.

Making magickers more powerful makes them more scary to mundanes. Making magickers gain more power by killing each other stokes meaningful conflict. Meaningful conflict involves more people than just the two people trying to kill each other. I suggest my previous assertions of reintroducing all the cool magick shit that's been whittled away along with meaningfully increasing magicker power when they kill each other.

[Patuk]

I'm not sure that creating an incentive for mages to kill other mages will do much to make magick scary for mundanes, which was the original topic here.

Besides, I think it's a little risky to introduce something that lets you "level up" via playerkilling. PvP is best when there's roleplay behind it and worst when it's just done for the sake of it. Killing someone because it gains you spells sounds like the latter. I'd much rather see PvP that happens as a result of events and decisions than PvP that happens because some dude discovered that he'll get +1 power from killing you.

This guy RPIs.

Cool ideas, but the thing that makes magick scary is that you don't know if that Gemmed is going to fireball you in front of the entire Gaj for being a dickhead, or if just associating with her is going to make your next child a mutant.

In reality, we don't care. The Templars will take care of any issues, and you don't see a lot of public manifestations anymore. So its just someone to sneer at, but secretly do sexytimes because taboo is cool and magickers have more karma, and more karma CLEARLY == better mudsex.

You want spooky mages? Give each one a coded curse that the can put on someone. Still initiates law code, but now that person is LEGIT FUCKED for a day or two, and they'll think about their words next time. Doesn't need to be a "can't walk, game unplayable" kind of curse, but something... visible. Vivs cause visible blemishes, Krathis cause painless-but-horrid-looking burn marks, etc.

Make it so that magickers can do shit to you without having to kill you, but a reason to hate them.

Cynically, people hate pickpockets and burglars miscreants more than magickers because they can avoid the crimcode and mess with you regardless, so the obvious solution would be for magickers to be able to do this, too.

[azuriolinist]

I'm not sure that creating an incentive for mages to kill other mages will do much to make magick scary for mundanes, which was the original topic here.

Besides, I think it's a little risky to introduce something that lets you "level up" via playerkilling. PvP is best when there's roleplay behind it and worst when it's just done for the sake of it. Killing someone because it gains you spells sounds like the latter. I'd much rather see PvP that happens as a result of events and decisions than PvP that happens because some dude discovered that he'll get +1 power from killing you.

I have to agree with Greve here. In theory, I find the idea of being able to extract another magicker's element (or a portion of it) a fantastic idea, and one that'd be amazing to see played out. I'm just opposed to seeing it coded. For one, that kind of circumstance seems it would be a particularly rare one, with special circumstances leading up to it.

For another, I don't agree with encouraging PK through coded boosts. While it could certainly invite conflict, I wonder if having it coded would bring about needless PKing for the sake of gains.

[roughneck]

It occurs to me that it might be hard to do a ritual on a dead body, since the code treats a dead body as a container. Unless that body had a flag on it telling what element it was, this might be best done when the victim is in critical condition. So the ritual might be a different way to give the victim the mantis head.

Code Select Expand

The Rukkian caster lies here in critical condition.

>em walks in a circle around ~rukkian, drawing a circle and lining it with Krathi runes.
The Krathi killer walks in a circle around the Rukkian caster, drawing a circle and lining it with Krathi runes.

>cast ritual Rukkian
You chant some words, drawing elemental force from the Rukkian caster.
You fail to grasp the elemental force within the Rukkian caster.
The Rukkian caster shivers, pain gnawing through their sub-consciousness.

>em sighs and grasps hold of %rukkian head, placing his thumbs on ^rukkian forehead
The Krathi killer sighs and grasps hold of the Rukkian caster's head, placing his thumbs on his forehead.

>cast ritual Rukkian
You chant some words, drawing elemental force from the Rukkian caster.
You grasp the Rukkian caster's elemental force with your very essence.
The Rukkian caster's body spasms as the last of their breath leaves them.

Why do you need this to be coded?

RP it without the coded effect and it might be even more unnerving and scary. I think it's awesome, and if you take away coded perks, then players can keep doing something different, instead of everyone having the same experience over and over which is predictable and boring.

We already have code to magick 'spooky'. But, as soon as people understand the mechanics of something, it's no longer 'spooky', just a danger to be mitigated with the proper measures. The way of making magick spooky, is for people RP'ing magickers to come up with creative spooky things like mentioned above and incorporate it into their magicker roleplay.

I've had success with this idea. My last magicker was just over a year ago, not really long lived at all, but my PC The Fortuneteller Gazanzar Siltborn got a lot of positive feedback from players and staff because instead of focusing on coded function or magick word combinations, the PC connected his understanding of his rukkian power to the moons, the sandstorms, silt sea level, kruth cards, and chance encounters. It made play less predictable, and his magick more alive and dynamic, no coded benefit however (who gives a flying fuck, already had the coded benefit of spellz).

Actually, now that I remember it, one of my most enjoyable 'magick' rituals that I ever played out wasn't with a magicker at all. I played a dwarven ranger that believed silt sea was alive and would one day swallow up the Known unless it received sacrifices and service. So my PC knocked out a salter, dragged them to the shoreline, and made them walk two leagues unarmed into the silt to see what the sea would demand from them. And, the sea sent two dujats to take its sacrifice as my PC watched rejoicing that he had provided an acceptable sacrifice and saved Red Storm from the silt's fury once again.

[Riev]

Why do you need this to be coded?

Strictly speaking, because we are in a MUD environment with heavy Roleplaying tools, not a MUSH where the tools are often built by the players themselves.

You can tell me that, sure, go out there and ritually attempt to suck the soul out of your victims, it'll be cool. But honestly, at one point in time, you could be told to "expose yourself to poison, because your body will build up a tolerance to it" but in game, the poison_tol wasn't actually functioning.

In the end, we're all roleplaying, but we want to see the actual effects of the roleplay. I would be devastated if Magicker A starts ritually absorbing the elements from his victims in an attempt to be a sorcerer/summon multiple elements only to either:

succeed through staff intervention only
or
fail due to NO staff intervention

Which leads to the only 'fun' alternatives, which are to succeed, or fail with staff intervention. Unfortunately, we can't all succeed, and staff are historically not good about playing out failure with the player feeling a sense of satisfaction.

[roughneck]

Why do you need this to be coded?

Strictly speaking, because we are in a MUD environment with heavy Roleplaying tools, not a MUSH where the tools are often built by the players themselves.

You can tell me that, sure, go out there and ritually attempt to suck the soul out of your victims, it'll be cool. But honestly, at one point in time, you could be told to "expose yourself to poison, because your body will build up a tolerance to it" but in game, the poison_tol wasn't actually functioning.

In the end, we're all roleplaying, but we want to see the actual effects of the roleplay. I would be devastated if Magicker A starts ritually absorbing the elements from his victims in an attempt to be a sorcerer/summon multiple elements only to either:

succeed through staff intervention only
or
fail due to NO staff intervention

Which leads to the only 'fun' alternatives, which are to succeed, or fail with staff intervention. Unfortunately, we can't all succeed, and staff are historically not good about playing out failure with the player feeling a sense of satisfaction.

Very soon after something is coded, it's known OOC'ly, and known things are less interesting and dramatic than unknown.

Focusing on uncoded activity allows you to RP in the unkown.

If your PC's human sacrifice isn't coded, isn't real, and is just a false belief they have, the end terrifying result for the victim is the same.

It's also just less frustrating. Waiting, expecting, and hoping for extra code treats just leaves you disappointed (usually). Working with what's already existing puts you in that glorious 'fuck you' fortress of not needing any support.

[MeTekillot]

Yes, I specifically suggested adding it as a coded mechanism so we wouldn't need to get staff support to engage in it.

[Heade]

If mages gained power from killing other mages, we'd end up playing Armageddon, Highlander Edition: There can be only one.

If this was something that would affect the majority of the playerbase, I'd think it was cancer. But since it would only serve to thin out the ranks of magickers and make the ones left more scary, I'm ok with playing highlander. Let's have fewer magick PCs, with the ones we do have being scary. I could get behind this.

[MeTekillot]

Code Select Expand


Flashing a hand out and clutching it into a fist, the ripped, flame-scarred man says, in sirihish:
     "Don't kill him, you fools! I need him alive!"

Swiping out to dismiss his underlings, the ripped, flame-scarred man says, in sirihish:
     "NOW BEGONE! I must finalize the ritual."


Having it be a long, involved process would be fine with me. Could take RL days of work. Not consistent, but you prepare part of the ritual at a certain spot, and then you need to wait a while for the next part of the ritual. Could make it fairly obvious that some hinky magick shit is going on in the area when the ritual isn't done or is ready to be consummated.

[Lizzie]

Code Select Expand


Flashing a hand out and clutching it into a fist, the ripped, flame-scarred man says, in sirihish:
     "Don't kill him, you fools! I need him alive!"

Swiping out to dismiss his underlings, the ripped, flame-scarred man says, in sirihish:
     "NOW BEGONE! I must finalize the ritual."


Having it be a long, involved process would be fine with me. Could take RL days of work. Not consistent, but you prepare part of the ritual at a certain spot, and then you need to wait a while for the next part of the ritual. Could make it fairly obvious that some hinky magick shit is going on in the area when the ritual isn't done or is ready to be consummated.

RL days of work means RL days of a player not playing Arm. That's RL days that the arm player might just decide fuck it, and play something that doesn't take RL days to play.

[MeTekillot]

I mean you go there cast 'ritual part 2', go fuck off to do something else, come back later, cast 'ritual part 3'.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Couple of things: Since you'd only do Highlander: Armageddon if someone was near you or stronger than you in their element, the actual numbers of power-driven killings would simmer down in short order. Killing those who were weaker than you would net you exactly zero gain. In fact, one idea that's possible is having the ritual skill allow you to work on it or not, and those who didn't work on it might not be considered as targets.

For instance, let's call this ritual skill 'absorb elements'. Let's say that all magickers get access to this skill at day 1. If they never practice their ritual, when someone who has trained it evaluates the one who has not trained it, they get the message that this magicker isn't a suitable target because they've not pursued their elemental connection to that level.

So now, you have an in-character opt-in option. If you don't want to be a target, then you simply don't train that ritual skill. If you ever decide that you do want to start absorbing elements, you've decided to opt-in, and you are now capable of becoming a target.

I'm also fine with having to craft the ritual components. This could involve finding a room that you're confident enough about having such a ritual location in. I wouldn't want to see it be a RL days process, but it could certainly involve multiple steps.

Finally, granted, this doesn't make magickers more spooky. It does allow them to become more powerful over time, which almost every magicker player would appreciate. And granted, I think this whole thing is a bit off topic, but it's kind of a natural train of thought that's been birthed from the original topic as we've explored options for mages.

[Riev]

Why do you need this to be coded?

Strictly speaking, because we are in a MUD environment with heavy Roleplaying tools, not a MUSH where the tools are often built by the players themselves.

You can tell me that, sure, go out there and ritually attempt to suck the soul out of your victims, it'll be cool. But honestly, at one point in time, you could be told to "expose yourself to poison, because your body will build up a tolerance to it" but in game, the poison_tol wasn't actually functioning.

In the end, we're all roleplaying, but we want to see the actual effects of the roleplay. I would be devastated if Magicker A starts ritually absorbing the elements from his victims in an attempt to be a sorcerer/summon multiple elements only to either:

succeed through staff intervention only
or
fail due to NO staff intervention

Which leads to the only 'fun' alternatives, which are to succeed, or fail with staff intervention. Unfortunately, we can't all succeed, and staff are historically not good about playing out failure with the player feeling a sense of satisfaction.

Very soon after something is coded, it's known OOC'ly, and known things are less interesting and dramatic than unknown.

Focusing on uncoded activity allows you to RP in the unkown.

If your PC's human sacrifice isn't coded, isn't real, and is just a false belief they have, the end terrifying result for the victim is the same.

It's also just less frustrating. Waiting, expecting, and hoping for extra code treats just leaves you disappointed (usually). Working with what's already existing puts you in that glorious 'fuck you' fortress of not needing any support.

I'm fine with things not being coded, but on the "possible" list. Do we need "cast ritual-fuckery" as a coded effect? Nah. But:
If I spend 3 RL weeks killing magickers, doing rituals with echoes of TRYING to absorb them, and

staff don't engage at all... that is boring and feels like a waste of time character-wise
staff engage and allow it ... that is fun but now everyone wants to do it, and it causes a hardship on the staff
staff engage and don't allow it ... all that work you put in feels for naught, but at least your character has a belief

It kind of hinges on "staff engagement" in your stories, honestly. The issue with it being coded isn't (to me) that it COULD be Highlander, that's just finding faults with no solutions. I think the issue of coding this would be that it opens up an entirely different aspect of the game that would need testing, balancing, and staff oversight even MORESO than the 5% of us that engage in this kind of heavy RP behavior anyway.

[Brokkr]

staff don't engage at all... that is boring and feels like a waste of time character-wise

For something like you are describing, if you aren't sending in character reports describing what you have been doing -and- what you intend to do and what you hope the outcome is, this is likely.  If you aren't using them to ensure someone is actually around to support your final ritual or whatever, also likely. Wishing last minute or hoping someone has been watching and is planning something are not good options for this type of thing.

staff engage and allow it ... that is fun but now everyone wants to do it, and it causes a hardship on the staff

They'd somehow have to know you did it. Maybe what you did, as if they did something different maybe it wouldn't work.

staff engage and don't allow it ... all that work you put in feels for naught, but at least your character has a belief

Making up a cool scenario and playing it out doesn't change the fundamental way magick works just because you would like it to work a certain way.  So yeah, there is the potential for this.  It may or may not work.  You'd probably have to try to find out.

[wizturbo]

Making up a cool scenario and playing it out doesn't change the fundamental way magick works just because you would like it to work a certain way.  So yeah, there is the potential for this.  It may or may not work.  You'd probably have to try to find out.

What works and doesn't work changes over time based on the opinions of the staff at the time.  This is frustrating for players who want to pursue these kinds of things in-game, because the hypothetical ritual that worked for Amos on Tuesday may not work for Gravos on Friday.  It didn't always seem to be that way in the past.  Perhaps some internal documentation on the "rules of non-coded elements of magick" could be written so staff could enforce them with more consistency?  Or better yet, maybe we could have a dedicated staff member for magickers over all that could help with this kind of thing.  They could handle magick across all areas of the game, and could help ensure consistency while also driving magicky plots.  There used to be more magicky plots!

[Cind]

Actually, now that I remember it, one of my most enjoyable 'magick' rituals that I ever played out wasn't with a magicker at all. I played a dwarven ranger that believed silt sea was alive and would one day swallow up the Known unless it received sacrifices and service. So my PC knocked out a salter, dragged them to the shoreline, and made them walk two leagues unarmed into the silt to see what the sea would demand from them. And, the sea sent two dujats to take its sacrifice as my PC watched rejoicing that he had provided an acceptable sacrifice and saved Red Storm from the silt's fury once again.

Oh, man, I remember this guy. I was lucky to survive running into him, although I don't remember much else.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that none of this idea is part of the way magick works in the world. That doesn't mean it can't be. Magick, after all, changes from time to time. But being serious, I doubt any of us that participated in the conception of this idea were thinking it'd be taken seriously. That said, I still think it's an idea worth chatting about, despite the fact that staff is probably laughing their asses off at it.