Magickal Spook Factor

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I have run across magickers, and not so long ago, that scared the shit out of me. I believe it is all about perception and power. Just like any other PC, if you want to be a scary fucker, you gotta start some kind of organization and have some minions and gain some control and do scary shit. Give folks reasons to fear you other than magic, like those two hulking guards standing on either side, which along WITH your despicable powers, is enough to make me poop my pants.

It IS more difficult to just run out solo with a full mage, like before the changes,  and be scary, but I'm okay with that.

[John]

I don't want people to be cursed in any way for being in the vicinity of a mage. I want mundane people to have a fairly decent chance to be cursed in a relatively harmless, completely silent way, when a mage actively casts spells in their vicinity.

Well that's certainly different. But what's the point of a silent curse that is so subtle people aren't even aware of it? Is it to secretly punish people for being around magickers casting spells?

Also, how often do people stand by willy nilly while magickers cast spells as if it's perfectly normal, with no RP about being disturbed by the unnatural magick? (Honest question. I honestly don't know. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-templar use magick unless I was playing a magicker myself).

And I wanted this to be offset by bringing magickers into clan structures with mundanes, thus giving players of both mages and mundanes the opportunity to interact in a mutual environment while also dealing with the havoc that magick supposedly wreaks upon mundanes.

I do think expanding which clans can have magickers would not be a great idea. There are a fair number of clans that can (or at least could) support magickers within their existing structure. Having the Byn, Kadius, Salarr or Fale hiring magickers as employees would be a bad move (nothing stopping them from contracting out to them when needed though).

[azuriolinist]

And I wanted this to be offset by bringing magickers into clan structures with mundanes, thus giving players of both mages and mundanes the opportunity to interact in a mutual environment while also dealing with the havoc that magick supposedly wreaks upon mundanes.

I do think expanding which clans can have magickers would not be a great idea. There are a fair number of clans that can (or at least could) support magickers within their existing structure. Having the Byn, Kadius, Salarr or Fale hiring magickers as employees would be a bad move (nothing stopping them from contracting out to them when needed though).

While I don't believe this would naturally occur, I think this would be an interesting turn of culture to build up towards. I'd like to see RP encouraged between magickers and mundanes, especially if it's the type where the mundane PC must be compelled to. So adding situations where magickers and mundanes can RP while still keeping to our in-game docs is a plus for me. Just, unless absolutely forced, I don't think our existing mundane clans (in their current state) would take in magickers (besides the odd exception).

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I don't want people to be cursed in any way for being in the vicinity of a mage. I want mundane people to have a fairly decent chance to be cursed in a relatively harmless, completely silent way, when a mage actively casts spells in their vicinity.

Well that's certainly different. But what's the point of a silent curse that is so subtle people aren't even aware of it? Is it to secretly punish people for being around magickers casting spells?

Also, how often do people stand by willy nilly while magickers cast spells as if it's perfectly normal, with no RP about being disturbed by the unnatural magick? (Honest question. I honestly don't know. I can't remember the last time I saw a non-templar use magick unless I was playing a magicker myself).

Well, the silent part just means that there is no "you feel the curse" message, but things happen that don't make sense in a normal day. Things like that thirst timer being sped up, or running taking more movement than normal, or the bout with narcolepsy, etc. I say silent because there's no echo, but you'd notice something was wrong, of course.

Of course most mundanes don't stand around acting like a magicker casting spells around them is normal, which had something to do with the idea of wanting to create situations where you had to work together. This is something that happened during the Echri period of time, and during the Copper Wars. I remember playing an AOD soldier and templars telling a Viv to create ... a place with water. My character was uber scared of all of those magickers, because they were out there in them sands, slanging magicks, yo, right where I was.

And I wanted this to be offset by bringing magickers into clan structures with mundanes, thus giving players of both mages and mundanes the opportunity to interact in a mutual environment while also dealing with the havoc that magick supposedly wreaks upon mundanes.

I do think expanding which clans can have magickers would not be a great idea. There are a fair number of clans that can (or at least could) support magickers within their existing structure. Having the Byn, Kadius, Salarr or Fale hiring magickers as employees would be a bad move (nothing stopping them from contracting out to them when needed though).

Yeah, I know - I didn't expect the idea to be warmly received. Heh. But I really want to see all of  the players be able to interact together in a way that makes sense. Even if officially joining clans is pushing it too far, I'd still like to see more contracting of magickers, if you like that term, or what have you. Right now, the onus on mundanes is to completely avoid magickers, but if your NPC superiors push contractual service with mages on you, then that onus is removed without you breaking docs.

I know Brokrr leans hard into the villain concept, and I'm down with that, but I really don't think that every magicker you ever know should be a murdering villain, particularly when they're wearing the Gem. As long as we maintain our cap on how many magickers vs how many mundanes we have around, I don't think including them in our daily lives in certain clans breaks anything, as long as it's a role that crafted carefully.

[Brokkr]

I'd hesitate to say I am promoting it.  But you might not see the kinds of stuff sub-guild mages are capable of unless there is that kind of open conflict.

You can only kill so many mekillots solo before it gets boring.

[Strongheart]

Some of the sub-class mages are impressive, but they are grossly unbalanced. Downsizing the aspects into two rather than three may be a proper solution: split them in such a fashion that maybe it'd be defensive on one and offensive on the other, each respectively getting their flavor incantations which I won't divulge into. Point is that while it isn't the focus of the game necessarily to promote a balanced gameplay, I believe it'd be a worthwhile fix.

Lately I've been losing interest in mage play altogether due to the community response to it in that "snowflakes" are too common, there are far too many mages running about, such and such. Yet I've seen rolecalls in-game necessitating these particular capabilities, or at least since the last time I played.

I may be getting too far from the topic at hand here, so I think I'll stop right there with my two cents.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Related to above. I don't recommend anyone play any Touched subclass. My experience was underwhelming and depressing and remained that way as I branched spells and continued to play. Until these are better niched or tweaked I think most players will feel an immediate and long lasting buyers remorse. These should not be worth a CGP in their current state.

Turned the meat of this post into a request.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd hesitate to say I am promoting it.  But you might not see the kinds of stuff sub-guild mages are capable of unless there is that kind of open conflict.

You can only kill so many mekillots solo before it gets boring.

No, I feel you. I agree that villains of all kinds are great things, and villains of the magicker variety are things that I certainly want to see. I'm just personally trying to see past that particular hook into the wider world and whatnot.

[John]

Of course most mundanes don't stand around acting like a magicker casting spells around them is normal

I don't see any great need to code downsides to being around magickers casting spells if people already don't do it. To me if this was put in it would be to reward or discourage certain behaviour. But if the behviour isn't currently occurring then there's no need to discourage it.

Even if officially joining clans is pushing it too far, I'd still like to see more contracting of magickers, if you like that term, or what have you. Right now, the onus on mundanes is to completely avoid magickers, but if your NPC superiors push contractual service with mages on you, then that onus is removed without you breaking docs.

This is something I'd love to see and is something that could be pushed on the player side as well as on the docs side. But it is difficult.

[Lizzie]

...not even if the npcs ask you to do something regarding mage contractual work. But rather, if the NPCs let you know that it's frowned upon and publicly not done but is not expressly forbidden, if done quietly and without much ado. A "don't ask don't tell" kind of thing. As long as it can't be traced back to your clan, and as long as no one gets the idea that your clan supported the contract, they'll look the other way.

[Strongheart]

This kind of deserves its own thread, but I firmly believe that incentives to certain roles should be pointed out more. For example, while a majority of the world hates you (or should) as a gemmed, you also get many benefits. You get to work close with the Templarate which instantly means you're never without something to do (unless your playtimes don't match up much, etc.), you get special housing assuming all the apartments aren't full (of course the temples are always there), and to top it all off? You've got magick - which in itself is cool, so let's improve upon that benefit just like how the Whirans and Rukkians have been worked on.

I point this out because I think role retention would be greater if people out there knew the benefits to keeping a character actively pursuing a position if it is within their reach. It creates more opportunities to really enjoy quality RP! Try not to feel bogged down by the beginnings of a clanned group, it can change for the better. Although of course there comes a time where you do hit a ceiling, such as blue robed templar not able to obtain the red robe and keep up with it! However, I think most understand my meaning when I say that things can sometimes feel bleak at first in clanned play, especially when you're a martyr like a gemmed (assuming you're clanned as one). Try to hold in there and play it out, although there's no shame in storing or deserting either. I'd say this reflects the sponsored roles of reigning gladiators too, never forget your role in the city: you're a celebrity, not just any ol' "slave", but the premium Borsail cut. Not just a combat bot, but a social icon! I think most peeps get this, I just wanted to reiterate it (and this is coming from someone who does not enjoy gladiatorial play at all lol but would like to one day give it a shot).

Bah, I'm terrible at getting a point across but I'm loving all this conversation! Wanted to jump in again, add some more points into the mix while hopefully not derailing the topic too much.

[Cind]

Every clan has a cap on how many pcs can be employed there at a time, and House Oash frequently hits this cap (and is the only one I've seen to do so) fairly often (although I don't know if this has changed or gotten worse since subguild mages.)

What if noble Houses could all openly hire mages (except Fale, who would turn their noses up, naturally) up to a certain 'legal' number?

They have always hired mages secretly, so long as the mage could keep their tracks hidden and their mouths shut, but you'd also have openly hired ones with armbands and cloaks and whatever, which would be good for people like me who are off-peak, who could come in and 'ask burly pay' and 'ask cook steak,' and who would at worst be the kind of player who would stay online from 1 to 6 p.m. on Saturdays in the hopes that they would be of use to their noble. I guess I'm thinking of the sort of playtimes I myself could afford.

The only thing I could foresee for sure if all the Houses started hiring witches would be that they would hit their clan caps real quickly and it would actually really become hard to get hired in a big House clan, like it is sometimes for House Oash. It would probably change the flavor of these clans too, when half the people you deal with are witches. Thus, legal witch number caps for clans. It could be low, like five or six.

[Hauwke]

I don't think Noble Houses should be publicly hiring mages, some of the lower places in the Known, sure. Byn, Garrison, maybe even the Arm could publicly put a few on. To 'fill' the ranks only. Have a krathi whose sole job is to get tough as fuck and burn the ever loving shit out of things be sworn in as a seperate rank similar to private, but with no real power.

[number13]

The Byn is already the best populated clan. On an OOC level, they don't need more members.

If you want to join a mundane clan as a magic subclass, just don't get caught. Don't get gemmed. Work something out with your superiors to keep your secret safe. A Fale noble, let's say, would have uses for a secret Whiran. A Sarge in the Byn could find value in a secret Vividian. That sounds like more fun with more plot potential than the Power Rangers openly joining mundane organizations.

Or play a criminal. The Guild, the Jaxa Pah, raider parties -- they're already breaking the law. Going to be a lot easier to convince the boss to look the other way when the boss steals shit and slings spice for a living.

[Cind]

It is in the docs that Fale 'hates magick stuff' but I guess the reality could be different, as I've never been in. Noble houses ain't usually my cup of tea.

[Jihelu]

I think like what, 3-4 noble houses actually employ mages? From what I know (I could be bullshitting), the House that does maintenance and sewer shit actively hire them. The issue arrises that these houses are boring as all fuck and the work the magickers do are, I assume, fixing shit. So it doesn't sound like an interesting role.

The other two houses available for play hate magic, so I don't see it fitting in unless staff comes out of the sky saying "The patriarch/matriarch/whoever the fuck runs the house had a stroke and said magick is okay now"

Though I would like to see other houses be in play, so maybe they could be added that way.

[Bebop]

To me, the cry to create the next Plainsman or White Rantarri or whatever is a really good thing. But it segregates the players of all the mages even more than they are already segregated. I think the fun of this game happens when people are not segregated without plenty of other people like them in the same wagon, particularly in a specific region. I think the fun of this game happens in the mixing pot, when you throw in all of the ingredients and let them do what they do. That's the only reason OOCly why I want sanctioned magickers to be included in more clans.

I want the next magicker villain too. It's absolutely fun, of course, and good times and great story and whatnot. But I also want people to play together, and separating all of the gemmed from meaningful employment and meaningful interaction with the mundane PCs seems like less fun than coming up with a good, IC way to throw them at each other.

And of course this is an Allanak thing - I feel like it fits there fine.

Mmmmh, I had some rad times with the Plainsman (oh so briefly) but methinks you are forgetting how pissed the PB eventually got and I'm pretty sure there was some fall out about power gaming and a shift away from that because the world began to feel kind of like everyone were the imms pawns.  Considering the LARPy feel of the game nowadays where there's already a lot of imm reliance I'm not sure I like this idea.  I mean maybe if it was a PC... I dunno.

I agree magickers should be incorporated more some how but as to how I dunno.

[Vex]

I should play a witch.

I bet, I could make people scared of witches, in an awful hurry.

[Cind]

That sounds great, Vex!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

To me, the cry to create the next Plainsman or White Rantarri or whatever is a really good thing. But it segregates the players of all the mages even more than they are already segregated. I think the fun of this game happens when people are not segregated without plenty of other people like them in the same wagon, particularly in a specific region. I think the fun of this game happens in the mixing pot, when you throw in all of the ingredients and let them do what they do. That's the only reason OOCly why I want sanctioned magickers to be included in more clans.

I want the next magicker villain too. It's absolutely fun, of course, and good times and great story and whatnot. But I also want people to play together, and separating all of the gemmed from meaningful employment and meaningful interaction with the mundane PCs seems like less fun than coming up with a good, IC way to throw them at each other.

And of course this is an Allanak thing - I feel like it fits there fine.

Mmmmh, I had some rad times with the Plainsman (oh so briefly) but methinks you are forgetting how pissed the PB eventually got and I'm pretty sure there was some fall out about power gaming and a shift away from that because the world began to feel kind of like everyone were the imms pawns.  Considering the LARPy feel of the game nowadays where there's already a lot of imm reliance I'm not sure I like this idea.  I mean maybe if it was a PC... I dunno.

I agree magickers should be incorporated more some how but as to how I dunno.

Heh. Well, I'm not sure I'd want to see another situation exactly like the Plainsman, but I would like to see another long-lived villain in that vein, however they managed it. And of course, I'd like it to be a PC, not staff.

[MeTekillot]

More Highlander style combat between magickers. Encourage them to kill each other, too. There should always be that lurking advantage for murdering each other. YOUR SOUL IS MINE!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

More Highlander style combat between magickers. Encourage them to kill each other, too. There should always be that lurking advantage for murdering each other. YOUR SOUL IS MINE!

Not gonna lie - I think that would be fucking awesome.

[X-D]

Yup, more incentive to do what I already do.

[Dar]

I 'love' that!!!

Every time an elementalist gets chargenned, some other elementalist loses 50% of their mana level, but both become capable of sensing each other's presence.

[MeTekillot]

I just think they should power up when they kill each other, not be penalized for existing. Just require murder to break the ceiling of what cooperation offers you personally.