Thanks Akariel (RE: Touched Magick Users Appeal)

[tapas]

Nobody attacks templars on a dime because they're afraid of them.

A templar is in a position of authority. A witch is an aberration, an unwelcome outsider. The Salem Witch Trials weren't born of hate, but of fear.

You shouldn't be expecting to use witch-fear as a social or PvP advantage. It's means that people want you gone or dead, not that people want to be your bitch. If you want to play a character that inspires the kind of fear-respect that makes others bow before your might, those roles exist -- they are the nobles and templars.

Once again, you're describing emnity. Not fear. Fear and hatred go to together here, sure. But the fear part almost never gets expressed.

Maybe if I saw some emotes where folk were shakily reaching for their blades. Or a generalized fear that the witch blood would get under their skin after the fact. In fact I don't think I've seen a proper flight response that wasn't w,w,w,w.

To respond to your other point. If I'm playing up the spookiness of my character, I'm not trying to make your pc my bitch. I'm trying to depict the actual spookiness of my character in accordance to the game world for you to react to however you like. However, note my earlier disappointment when the response is pretty universally the tough guy one.

But I think that's probably par for a game in which "kill man" always seems to be the default.

[Riev]

Wait!?!?!!

You, or your character?




I would advise when encountering a magicker in RL in this scenario to flee, as we can't afford to loose valuable players to this sort of stuff.

Humour, AND concern! I approve!

Also if I'm, as a real person, sitting at a bar... something is very very wrong. I may be homeless, or worse... my computer died.

[Riev]

On the real though, I think there is a lot of onus on the players to roleplay appropriately (as much as there should be). When it comes to magickers, sometimes you're over the 120th time emoting that the wind blows out a nearby candle before its become... meh. (I've gotten to the point where I almost wanted to add my own timed emotes that just go off regardless).

I would be all for the cantrips being reworked (somehow) to allow for magicker-only socials. Sometimes less of a Cast-code, which can get you dead, and more of a twitch/discord emote like 'kangry' echoing a generic krathi showing signs of anger, or something. They'd either be overused, or never used, but they'd be available.

[Lizzie]

Nobody attacks templars on a dime because they're afraid of them.

A templar is in a position of authority. A witch is an aberration, an unwelcome outsider. The Salem Witch Trials weren't born of hate, but of fear.

You shouldn't be expecting to use witch-fear as a social or PvP advantage. It's means that people want you gone or dead, not that people want to be your bitch. If you want to play a character that inspires the kind of fear-respect that makes others bow before your might, those roles exist -- they are the nobles and templars.

Which isn't to say that your character can't hold that philosophy. One of my longest lived characters believed that elementalists were chosen, and that mundanes should bow before him. But OOCly, I never expected that to actually work. It was line that I fully expected and hoped would fail spectacularly. (and it did!)

Actually no, the salem witch trials were born of something unfortunate happening to someone, and they wanted someone to blame. It escalated in kind, until people would accuse anyone they didn't like of witchcraft, and even fabricated actual demonstrations of horrific experiences (children having shaking fits - which the children did on purpose to demonstrate that someone had cursed them). I see none of that roleplayed, presently, and haven't for a very long time. In addition, not a single one of those incidences were actually attributable to magic. In the world of Zalanthas, there really IS magic. It's an actual thing. But without that kind of demonstration of its actuality, it becomes nothing more than unfounded myth. People can get their kids to believe in unicorns and Santa Claus. But eventually those kids grow up and realize these things don't exist.

[gotdamnmiracle]

If the fear is supposed to be grounded in the unknown the idea of violence as a response is poor. Most lovecraft characters aren't coldclocking fishfolk or mi-go. They're running, hiding, praying to god, and asking "what the hell".

I also see this failing in the context of fear of power. If you register something as a threat it's far more likely for you to take off. We're using exceptions to the rule to define the rule, I think. All you need to do is look at how to ward off aggressive animals and not get attacked to see that the most common response is to run screaming or freeze and you have to be TAUGHT to be aggressive. This could be fine if it was someone like The Arm who was teaching how to incapacitate a witch or a Delf tribe that teaches how to traditionally take down a trickster. It gets fucky once you have runners not thinking twice about it or worse, every lone hunter in the Known, a hayseed from Storm or the North where they have zero exposure to magicks, who encounters something weird just chopping away because they know if they can get the jump on them it's better than not. I am guilty of the latter.

[Riev]

Does the (basically) enslavement of magickers in Allanak help, or hurt, the stereotype of them being a fearful 'other'? I can see a route of thinking that brings you to "The Templars know they are dangerous, but they're gemmed. They can't DO anything to me without suffering the wrath of His Shadow."

So you meet one out in the wild, and based on everything you've experienced, they're docile and under control, except this one. Like going from seeing docile doggos to straight up wolves.

You might be afraid and try to run. You might try to fight because you think its "just a dog after all". You might even try to reason with it, because OTHER doggos like the treats you offer. But in Armageddon, the only thing that reinforces this scary situation is the player 'acting according to the docs'. The krathi can't (shouldn't) power-emote setting an ember about your clothing, or cause the wind to blow sand into your eyes. The tools at their disposal are both wide open by the emote system, and curtailed by imagination and suspension of disbelief.

At least let my Shadow Witch turn the room to complete pitch black, virtually or not, for a second. Let people know who you are, without being outwardly aggressive.

[mansa]

Known world examples of magickers... That's a good thought.


We should change or reiterate how players should react based upon visible examples to characters and NPC's.

I would suggest examples - more echos at the entrance to the magickers quarter and more examples within there of how typical characters with spells should react and play.

[RogueGunslinger]

What if we just changed the docs to represent the player base and the reality of ingame situations. Make magick more accepted, less feared. After all people have been living with it in Allanak for multiple generations now. Maybe society progresses somewhat here so that it's not at all weird to have Gemmed doing anything any other citizen does. Keep the bigger hatred and fear to the other portions of the world and have Allanaki's be woke.

Keep ungemmed magickers hated how they are now.

[gotdamnmiracle]

What if we just changed the docs to represent the player base and the reality of ingame situations. Make magick more accepted, less feared. After all people have been living with it in Allanak for multiple generations now. Maybe society progresses somewhat here so that it's not at all weird to have Gemmed doing anything any other citizen does. Keep the bigger hatred and fear to the other portions of the world and have Allanaki's be woke.

Keep ungemmed magickers hated how they are now.

I'm okay with this. Honestly I've always felt that the gemmer was reviled and pitied much better than feared. They are about on par with the grossest rinther, but probably less likely to give back attitude because of how closely they're chained to the templarate (and they can't exactly scrabble off to the Rinth if they screw up).

On the real though, I think there is a lot of onus on the players to roleplay appropriately (as much as there should be). When it comes to magickers, sometimes you're over the 120th time emoting that the wind blows out a nearby candle before its become... meh. (I've gotten to the point where I almost wanted to add my own timed emotes that just go off regardless).

I would be all for the cantrips being reworked (somehow) to allow for magicker-only socials. Sometimes less of a Cast-code, which can get you dead, and more of a twitch/discord emote like 'kangry' echoing a generic krathi showing signs of anger, or something. They'd either be overused, or never used, but they'd be available.

Right! Yeah having some spells or even a baseline of acceptable "power" emotes would be awesome. I think that'd go a long way towards making magick feel more organic.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

What if we just changed the docs to represent the player base and the reality of ingame situations. Make magick more accepted, less feared. After all people have been living with it in Allanak for multiple generations now. Maybe society progresses somewhat here so that it's not at all weird to have Gemmed doing anything any other citizen does. Keep the bigger hatred and fear to the other portions of the world and have Allanaki's be woke.

Keep ungemmed magickers hated how they are now.

Woke? Just ... no ... not something that's gonna happen on Zalanthas, like, ever.

I'm teasing. I honestly think this is exactly how things should be. Gemmers  are nasty, cursed, and reviled, but so are breeds and elves. Putting them on that level in Allanak seems like a good stance to me. I think I argued for this back when Tuluk was open and there was a clear-cut place to hate magickers.

[Cind]

I don't want magickers to turn into the wonky Fear me/I'm powerless situation of city elves, and I don't think staff are going to do more than tweak the subguilds soon, so if that's the way we should fix it, then fine, yeah. For a couple of years, we can even RP about how, back in my day, we had to walk up the hill both ways to get to school (its an American saying for how things were harder/better for you back then.)

[Brokkr]

We destroyed the last city somewhat accepting of magickers.

With magickers.

Resulting in magicker hate.

[Riev]

We destroyed the last city somewhat accepting of magickers.

With magickers.

Resulting in magicker hate.

Steinal? The place idiots are always looking for, for loot, because they're not afraid of scary magicker ghosts?
Or Mal Krian? The "see above I'm not copying and pasting"

Do you know the amount of things that can happen in a King's Age? Most of our PCs aren't rolled up, privy to the knowledge and understanding of 100% of the documentation. Maybe an example must be made.

[Lizzie]

What Riev said, in a nutshell. Also reflective of one of Mansa's recent posts on the subject. Legends are myths - meaning, likely not true, but great stories that might have once had a basis in truth a long time ago - unless they are reinforced by current (or recent) events.

[Brokkr]

Well, those too.

Tuluk, though.  Tuluk.

[Heade]

Well, those too.

Tuluk, though.  Tuluk.

Uh...what? Tuluk wasn't accepting of magickers...at all. Not even a little. If that's why Tuluk is closed, I want a do-over.

EDIT: OH! Did you mean the FIRST version of Tuluk, before it was destroyed and rebuilt? Were they accepting of magickers? I thought Tuluk had always been anti-gick.

[Lizzie]

Tuluk had an entire quarter dedicated to the elementalist temples. It became known as the ruins, after the sacking.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Wow. We goin' waaay back. Like, twenty years RL?

[MeTekillot]

History is cyclical. Have another settlement rise in favor of magick. Lynch anyone known to frequent it, but the thing will be that the allure of power and mystery will draw those daring-do to it seeking things Man should not know. Pride will be their destruction.

[Eyeball]

Tuluk had an entire quarter dedicated to the elementalist temples. It became known as the ruins, after the sacking.

Actually, Tuluk didn't have temples so much as a combined temple. It had one central room, with four rooms branching off of it, one devoted to each of the four (then) elements. The surrounding layout of exits was a little confusing.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

History is cyclical. Have another settlement rise in favor of magick. Lynch anyone known to frequent it, but the thing will be that the allure of power and mystery will draw those daring-do to it seeking things Man should not know. Pride will be their destruction.

This isn't a horrible idea. It would thin the ranks of the Gemmed, but I think it would be a cool thing.