Armageddon is a Social game.

[Jihelu]

A session 0 is required to really set the tone, I always feel like. If you decide not to have a session 0 and the game is mostly for fun?...Please for the love of god don't do what Riev hinted at in his post and go upstairs and retire.

This is an adventure game! If you aren't going to actively come up with a minor backstory atleast have a character willing to take risks and explore!

I usually like being related to another character either in occupation or by blood. I was a dragonborn nobles guard once. Was fun. He was a paladin, I was a cavalier.

[Riev]

Anyone who takes my suggestion, while playing a game of DnD, deserves the ridicule they would receive.

My point, which I think you kind of passed by, was that the game is incredibly social. Tabletop games, even without a Session 0, have ways of bringing players together, but you're bringing together 3-6 people who are all interested in what you're providing.

Armageddon cannot do that. It can only say "Here is the world, inhabit it." There are Adventurer's Guilds. There are no "Hunt this Beast for city favor" etc. You are not the DnD player in Armageddon. You are the NPC that the DnD player interacts with.

Sure, sometimes you're the current Guild Face, and have some power codedly and lore-wise behind you, but you're never the DnD player.

Sometimes you're the hardened Byn Sergeant who whips beggars and thieves into a fighting force, but you're never the DnD player that hires the Sergeant and gets half the troop killed in a gnoll attack.

Its a difficult transition, and one I never was fully able to make.

[Delirium]

Sometimes you're the hardened Byn Sergeant who whips beggars and thieves into a fighting force, but you're never the DnD player that hires the Sergeant and gets half the troop killed in a gnoll gith attack.

... says you...

[Miradus]

Why would you hire the Byn to do anything? It would have to be only a social thing. They are utterly useless at everything else.

Let's say I'm a useless merchant and I decide to relocate from Nak to Luir's. To cross the Red Desert I would like some protection from raptors, thank you very much.

I hire ONE GUY out of the Gaj and he deals with any raptors we see (or stray gith left over from some storyteller attack on the Garrison).

I hire a squad of Byn to do it (for probably around the same price as that one guy) and it takes three times as long and we often suffer wave after wave of gith attacks. I'm actually LESS likely to make the move successfully because of the involvement of other players.

Your success in Armageddon is largely proportional to how limited you scope your goals and how willing you are to keep off the radar of everyone else. So yes, it's a social game. A social game in which you inversely are punished by the involvement of others.

The only reason I ever roll out of chargen intending to be social (with a criminal or a merchant) is if I've already decided my goals aren't going to be achievable but I'm willing to spend my time and effort spectacularly failing around others or I'm willing to be a human crafting vending machine to allow others to achieve whatever goals they set (usually just buying some bling).

My recent dissatisfaction with the game comes from mostly that. In a permadeath game, you need some sense of achievement. You can't build anything. You can't transition from a mundane to a mighty alchemist or sorcerer. You might be able to go from farmboy to famous warrior, but you're then limited to sitting around in the Gaj explaining to newbies how famous you are.

There's only a few areas I haven't explored in the game and they're so heavily loaded with kryl that it's impossible to move around in there, even with a 100 day character. I've run out of shit to do in this game.

[Vex]

The game seems more anti-social than social, and its been rubbing off on me.

I'm preferring to avoid more and more pcs, the longer I play the game. I don't think I could ever, ever again, play a warrior, because you have to interact with everyone, for everything you need, almost all of the time. I find the idea intolerable, lately.

I find being out of doors, and away from towns, makes the game easier to enjoy, as when I DO run into someone, they're usually just like me: out in the boonies, to avoid the loonies. And if they're of the type of people, I try to avoid? There aren't fifty half-giant npc soldiers sitting around, every few rooms, keeping me from kicking their teeth in. I do find, it makes for more polite interactions, more often than not.

There would be a lot more incentive to play in cities, if everyone wasn't so ironclad protected from an ass kicking, by the crazy number of npc soldiers. The number of smug "social role" assholes, who need to be beaten, looted and left dead and naked in an alley, is getting troubling. I may need to play another elf, soon...

[yousuff]

I may need to play another elf, soon...

Do a rolecall, preferably more compatible with the documents than my own were I'll be down for it if you'd have me

[Miradus]

Though I gotta say, Vex/Yousuff, I feel a little funny about the meta of a rolecall with the intent of culling the social-asshole herd some ...

I'm totally in.

We'd just need to show some restraint. And the expectation is we'd all eventually die horribly because we'd be facing heat from both the lawful and criminal world.

There's even some lore for this that makes it more legit ... revolutionaries and secret cultists abound.

.. but ... show some restraint. More maiming than killing. And not just because that guy was rude in the Gaj that one time.

[Bebop]

What would define the social-asshole herd, pray tell?

[Marauder Moe]

It is a wonderful thing that Armageddon supports many different interests and playstyles.

[Miradus]

What would define the social-asshole herd, pray tell?

Hard to put a definition around, but I think we all know it when we see it.

A character can be an asshole and really add to the game. And then a character can do the same things and detract from it.

How would you define it, Bebop?

[Vex]

What would define the social-asshole herd, pray tell?

Well, this is suitably awkward.

[Miradus]

Roll with it.

Progress is made in uncomfortable places.

[RogueGunslinger]

Progress is not how I'd characterize the direction of this thread. If a point can't be made without disparaging other players or the game itself then you aren't making a good point. That's just airing bitter grievances ad nauseam. If you find yourself doing this repeatedly you need to either let it go and find a new hobby, or get on staff and make some changes.

[Miradus]

Well, I thought we were going to have a discussion between what makes a strong villain character and what makes simply an asshole.

Clearly there's some issues here I'm not aware of.

As usual in this forum, there's a context I'm not part to in the discussions and I get the feeling it goes on either in Discord or elsewhere.

[Miradus]

Progress is not how I'd characterize the direction of this thread. If a point can't be made without disparaging other players or the game itself then you aren't making a good point. That's just airing bitter grievances ad nauseam. If you find yourself doing this repeatedly you need to either let it go and find a new hobby, or get on staff and make some changes.

I feel like you're being self-righteous. I've done nothing but try and discuss the game on the discussion forum, and I feel like people attack my post and throw motivations upon me that don't exist.

[Heade]

Well, I thought we were going to have a discussion between what makes a strong villain character and what makes simply an asshole.

Not all assholes have to be villains. Nor villains, assholes. You can be an incredibly polite and socially paletteable villain. You can also be a socially abrasive asshole with a heart of gold. These are all various types of nuance that you may, or may not get to pick up on by RPing with the characters. But, I think, in a social game, we should recognize that these sorts of things exist, and give people the benefit of the doubt. Let's not be judgemental of someone else's RP, when we can't see behind the curtain, to people's motivations and inner thoughts/feelings.

[Narf]

Progress is not how I'd characterize the direction of this thread. If a point can't be made without disparaging other players or the game itself then you aren't making a good point. That's just airing bitter grievances ad nauseam. If you find yourself doing this repeatedly you need to either let it go and find a new hobby, or get on staff and make some changes.

I feel like you're being self-righteous. I've done nothing but try and discuss the game on the discussion forum, and I feel like people attack my post and throw motivations upon me that don't exist.

If I were a gambling sort I'd give 5 to 1 odds he was talking about someone else. You might reread the thread and see if his response better fits another poster.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Be cool, folks.

[Derain]

Have to agree there is definitely a social asshole herd in the major city right now, it's laughable To even try to play there right now.

[RogueGunslinger]

I made a very general comment because the thread was devolving into whining about other players or the game in general. Something that happens frequently on the GDB and gets rather tiresome.

[Derain]

Unless your playing you wouldn't understand some of the frustrations.

[Bebop]

Progress is not how I'd characterize the direction of this thread. If a point can't be made without disparaging other players or the game itself then you aren't making a good point. That's just airing bitter grievances ad nauseam. If you find yourself doing this repeatedly you need to either let it go and find a new hobby, or get on staff and make some changes.

I feel like you're being self-righteous. I've done nothing but try and discuss the game on the discussion forum, and I feel like people attack my post and throw motivations upon me that don't exist.

Okay, so RG's response in no way warrants this level of aggression and calling it gas lighting is a bit ironic since you basically just went off on him and accused everyone else of effectively having some kind of OOC context for some obscure point of subject matter.  WTH, dude?

Then you've got Vex and yourself having a passive-aggressive exchange in regards to my question from earlier.

And I asked about the "asshole herd" you referred to be because what I've seen over my 10 plus years of time in the game is people get their OOC preferences and expectations and then proceed to take it out on people IG instead of being open to ideas and plot lines.  So I was a bit concerned as to what constitutes this for you.

Overall, this thread has gotten really, really aggressive and I'm really confused as to where that aggression is coming from regarding what seems like a really mild topic.

[Vex]

Then you've got Vex and yourself having a passive-aggressive exchange in regards to my question from earlier.

And I asked about the "asshole herd" you referred to be because what I've seen over my 10 plus years of time in the game is people get their OOC preferences and expectations and then proceed to take it out on people IG instead of being open to ideas and plot lines.  So I was a bit concerned as to what constitutes this for you.

It was a slight bit of cheeky, but hardly passive.

[Cind]

I feel like I don't get social anxiety at all, unless its from within the game itself, such as me being an elf, pulling up my hood and walking into Red's during a Kadian party in order to snag food. I have amazing, amazing confidence that never seems to waver. Now that I think about it I'm sure that's not actually normal.

If I haven't talked with someone I don't know for a while then I do feel a little socially awkward with these strangers in the game for the first meeting but its more of a reaction than a feeling.

I'm always nice during OOC. Put a little smiley face on it and everything.

[tapas]

Theoretically it's a social game where we collaboratively build stories.

Except sometimes when you collaborate with another player they get their tits in a twist and just decide to lock you in a back room and kill you instead.

So we have a game about social collaboration where you get punished for collaborating socially. It's really no wonder why some players would rather just decide to avoid other players entirely.

Though, this is the first time I've heard of players avoiding other players because it's too hard to kill them in the city?