Potential Gods.

[Blackmoon]

Here is a question triggered by a similar question in the Roleplaying Discussion forum. Although I havn't applied this to my character as of yet, I would like to know how the general population think of applying the moods used by magickers as Gods? Almost comparable to Greek Gods..almost. I'm sure I could elaborate further or not, if I had questions to work on. Here are the various moods.

Mood
The mood symbol of a spell is a reference to the truename of what has in ancient times been called an aspect. Aspects were, depending on the culture, described as demispirits of a certain temperment or as psychic constructs created at the beginning, from which all human and demihuman emotions evolved.

All of the known moods are listed below.


Hekro  The aggressive warrior.  
Grol  The giant guardsman, protector.  
Chran  The master, the will of the dominant.  
Echri  The destroyer.  
Wril  The giver of good.  
Nikiz  The passive watcher.  
Hurn  The mad, brutal one.  
Inrof  The seeker of the hidden, the revealer.  
Viod  The neutral maker.  

[marko]

From my own experience - the common populace knows almost nothing of these.  These are almost entirely based around magicks - and as such, it'd be relatively safe to assume that the common folk would fear references to them.

I could, of course, be wrong.  

[Rindan]

I think that those pieces of a magikers spells are related to old games names simply suggest that at one time there was a more symbolic religion.  I think it is safe to say that if the religion was ever large, Tek and Muk killed it.  In fact, I imagine one of the first things the God Kings did once they gained power thousands of years ago was declare themselves gods and then went out and actively destroyed other religions.  

I imagine to this day that if a religions person was to show up in Allanak and actively try and convert people, he would be promptly and publicly killed.  If one was to show up in Tuluk he would simply disappear.  I think that religions are tolerated in tribal people, but if one were to ever gain any sort of influence it would be promptly stamped out.

You have to realize that as far as most people are concerned there is a God that is very tangible already there.  Why make up a new god when their clearly is a god watching over you already?  It would like be if all of a sudden Catholic priests and only Catholic priests were suddenly blessed with awesome and undeniable miracles.  I think other religions would quickly flounder under the weight of a religion that simply cannot be denied to have a direct line to god.  It is one thing to pray for someone and every now and then one of those people end up healed.  It is another thing to be able to sweep your hand over a dead guy and have them come back to life, or to call down a pillar of fire at will.  You can't argue against the latter.

In Zalanthas, it can not be argued that templars are getting their powers from a god.  So long as templars get powers and no other sects rise that can not do the same thing, I think that Tek and Muk hold a monopoly on religion.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't have time to find it now, but I once saw a post by one of the staff that they do -not- want to have the elements revered as gods.  The idea is that Tek would squash any of this behavior.  His magickers shouldn't be worshiping anything else.

[creeper386]

There is only one problem with that Rindan. I can almost assure that even if Cathlic priests were suddenly able to call down miracles at a whim. There would be people of other religions that would just beleive the same that they do now, that they are evil beings of an evil god. Just because they are now SURE they are followers of an evil god as opposed to posers that just don't beleive in the true god is fairly irrelevent.

But, seeing as there isn't really any religion beyond the God King right now, most likely any strong followers of any other religion were stamped out long ago to get rid of resistance.

Creeper

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Let me present a point.

In this world, we have the Bible. That makes all other religions that do not believe in GOD the minority, simply because the message of Christianity has been spread everywhere and in every language. There are, as far as I know, few religious books dealing with anything other than GOD. When I say GOD, I include the Muslims and other such religions, who may not believe in Jesus but DO believe in GOD. The vast majority of folks in this world believe in GOD, and this includes many atheists in this world. They say they don't believe in GOD, but they are just telling themselves that.

In Zalanthas, there is NO common written language. On top of this, the world is small. The only powers that are obvious and blatant are the God-Kings. Their 'priests' are visible. By contrast, few folks actually travel, so they've little chance to hear anything else from tribals, opposing God-Kings, etc. Thus, in Armageddon, it is virtually garanteed that an opposing religion would never make it out the fledgling stage even without sanction by the God-Kings. People go with what they know, and in Armageddon, they know Tek and Muk.

Now amongst the tribals, you can bet they have other religion. Religion is one of the bases of human culture. People rally around something to believe in. In many cases, it is likely to find some old wise man and likely a magicker at the head of a tribe, instead of some huge strapping warrior, because the old magicker has the power to perform miracles, so it seems, while the warrior is only a powerful mundane fellow. Some warriors could claim magickal power through trickery, and folks would flock about him as well. It is pretty safe, I think, to assume that fear of magick amongst those who are not educated would give way to worship.

Tribals will likely know nothing of Tek or Muk, and if they do, it is as rumors, since most tribals will never leave their home lands. Thus, out in the boondocks, the religion of Muk and Tek loses hold, and other 'gods' make their way into the foray.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

The vast majority of folks in this world believe in GOD, and this includes many atheists in this world. They say they don't believe in GOD, but they are just telling themselves that.

Am I the only person that thinks that was a little uncalled for?

Other than that, good points T7DV.

I agree with previous posters that any sort of religion that didn't focus on the God-Kings would be stamped out damn fast in the city-states for IC reasons. I think the 'descriptions' of these magickal words in the help file were really just OOC clues as to what use they might have. The players of fledgling magicker characters have to start with something, right?

[Blackmoon]

Why have moods in spells if they are just to help magickers OOCly? Kinda strange in my opinion, for magickers to be using such words without knowing any reason other than that they work...a bit impossible to make spells from made-up words.

The mood symbol of a spell is a reference to the truename of what has in ancient times been called an aspect...

If by saying a series of names provokes something to happen, wouldn't at least someone witnessing, or the caster, have ideas of divine action..of more than one perhaps? (Unless everyone in Zalanthas believes in one God, which I'm sure they don't) Or maybe whoever watched this happen thought the Almighty Finger of Tektolnes, or maybe even the Great Dragon himself, played a part...

What I -do- want to find out, now that I think about it, is what the immortals think about adapting Moods as gods. (also, using elements as gods can't really be possible, since Drov and Whira are names of the elemental planes..not people (unless I'm mistaken)...and might be the reason the immortals didn't want them being used as Gods.

[Blackmoon]

The Great Dragon...hmm, maybe he's the one behind all the magick..

I don't think...using OOC reasons, that Tek or Muk is respensible for divine action. Umm, if anyone has a problem with this conclusion, please voice your opinion. A bit of a touchy topic, as most religious questions are (to your character, which will most likely effect you as the player also), and so I'll keep my mouth shut til I have reason.

I apologize for any unclear statements, my thoughts aren't really clear as of yet.

Oh, and if the moods aren't known by the populous, which I'm sure they don't/didn't, at one point, there are many ways such an idea can get to public knowledge if someone really wanted it to.

[Rindan]

Why have moods in spells if they are just to help magickers OOCly? Kinda strange in my opinion, for magickers to be using such words without knowing any reason other than that they work...a bit impossible to make spells from made-up words.

The mood symbol of a spell is a reference to the truename of what has in ancient times been called an aspect...

If by saying a series of names provokes something to happen, wouldn't at least someone witnessing, or the caster, have ideas of divine action..of more than one perhaps? (Unless everyone in Zalanthas believes in one God, which I'm sure they don't) Or maybe whoever watched this happen thought the Almighty Finger of Tektolnes, or maybe even the Great Dragon himself, played a part...

What I -do- want to find out, now that I think about it, is what the immortals think about adapting Moods as gods. (also, using elements as gods can't really be possible, since Drov and Whira are names of the elemental planes..not people (unless I'm mistaken)...and might be the reason the immortals didn't want them being used as Gods.

The fact that those words are universal is important and it isn't just some little OOC thing thrown in.  It is very important in fact and very IC.  I imagine most magikers would begin to realize that the fact that language of magik is common to all people is important.  The problem is that exactly what it means is in question.  The average magiker is just going to notice that everyone is speaking the same language.  That isn't a sign of god(s), just that those words have power when said in a certain order.

Your average commoner is going to have no knowledge that magikers all speak the same language when casting.  Even if they did realize this I think most would conclude this and they did conclude it was proof of something divine, I think they would only conclude that they are talking to an invoking demons.  Magiker is universally considered evil by the common populace, even in parts of the world where it is tolerated.  Anything associated with magik is generally considered evil.  I imagine if someone heard the words magikers were speaking they would make it a point –never- to say such words aloud in fear that it would invoke a terrible power against them.

[crymerci]

Ok, first, moods. I think that it's possible that a scholar of some sort might be able to dig up a bit of backhistory on the words, but scholars aren't very thick on the ground on Zalanthas.  It's possible that the templarate or noble houses might have some sort of written record, but again, I doubt the information would be disseminated to the public.

Magickers themselves have to decide how they know these phrases, and even if they do.  Some might decide that these are arcane phrases quietly shared as knowledge between magickers in Allanak.  But if you're a secret and/or non-Nakki magicker, you have to decide if you would even know the words, without anyone to learn them from.

Basically, you could try to get a character approved who knew these things and had religious beliefs based off of them, but I would generally expect that any religious prophet preaching inside Nak or Tuluk about anything other than the appropriate God-King, would be quickly banished if not outright exterminated.  I mean, let's face it.  These are omnipotent rulers who probably employ hordes of mindbenders to monitor the populace.

Now, outside the cities, especially in a tribal setting, then yeah, I would definitely expect there to be lots of different lore, maybe not a pantheon, but pretty much all societies worship something.

P.S. You know, just to be fair, I think we need to overthrow one of the God-Kings and instate a Goddess-Queen.  :twisted:

[Tlaloc]

1) Apart from the elements themselves, any of the magick words (this includes power, reach, moods, and spheres) are very likely unknown to the common populace. Chances are, your character has never heard of them. If they have heard of them, then chances are it was in conjunction to hearing an elementalist or Templar doing something particularly nasty to  some victim - which more than likely sticks them in the realm Things Your Character Doesn't Want To Hear Ever Again.

That is, assuming that your character even remembers them from one casting to a next. Lets face it: in reality, the verbal part of a spell would take all of 3 seconds to say, max. It would be very easy to loose track of five very short words which are spouted out at the same time as flames suddenly appearing in the air, a guy gesturing, maybe some extra chanting or verbalizing, people running away and screaming, and somebody suddenly turning into a tregil.

2) There are no "offcial" religions or gods, save for the two Sorcerer Kings. The entire populace of the Known World are expected to worship them and them alone. The fact Southerners don't worship Muk-Utep, and Northerners don't worship Tektolnes is probably a very large wedge that drives itself between the peoples of the two cultures, adding fuel to the fire.

Unofficially, I'm sure a few folks worship whatever they feel like in private, though the majority of Zalanthans (Most of the people living in the city states) will fall under the 'Tektolnes' or 'Muk-Utep' categories of worship. Additionally, it can be pretty well assumed that indipendent tribes and other groups have thier own sort of spiritual 'things', well apart from the two Sorcerer Kings.

3) I'm going to refrain from comment about making the moods 'Gods', since this seems like something that would be fun to explore IC. Any speculation as to if they are or not, would be purely IC conjecture. I'm certain, however, that Magickers and Templars have thier own opinions on the matter. Maybe you should ask them?

If your PC remains convinced, or if you think up a character concept that works with it, sure worship them as gods. Start a cult, even! I can think of at least one PC elementalist who came up with personifications about the Moods, and told legends and fables about them.

[Blackmoon]

Thankyou Tlaloc.

DRAGON  (General)  


The Dragon is a pivotal figure in the history of Zalanthas. While what happened around the time that the Dragon was on Zalanthas is not always clear (historians have differing views on this), what is clear is that the world became a far worse place for the Dragon's presence. Legend has it that the Dragon was responsible for the destruction of much of the world, both directly and as a result of introducing defiling magick.

While on Zalanthas, the Dragon established an empire of terror that followed from the prosperous Empire of Man. For reasons unknown, however, the Dragon left the world after some years, and its empire decayed rapidly. Modern time is marked from the time of the Dragon's departure, with Year 0 marking the year that it left.

In 911, during the 12th King's Age, the Dragon returned to Zalanthas, destroying a quarter of the northern city of Tuluk upon its arrival. Muk Utep met with the Dragon, after which it disappeared again, and Muk Utep himself ceased appearing in public.

Many Ages later, Highlord Tektolnes of Allanak made an appearance as a dragon when he destroyed the dwarven forces that besieged Allanak, early in the 19th Age. Today, the only publicly viewable representation of a dragon is the steel dragon above Allanak's main gates, which represents the Highlord in his conquering splendor.

Never saw this until now...the documents are great.[/quote]