PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It

[Inky]

Sounds like playing an aide and dealing with the intricacies of social and political RP isn't for you. That's cool. I, too, prefer chopping things up with bone swords. I've had a grand total of one PC in the Atrium and I stored that PC, because it was not my cup of tea.

Nope. I played with Alesix's Borsail back in the day. (Not knocking this player. Infinite respect.)

But anyone who says there is a layer of intricacies or veil over the under workings of politics in this game should be regarded with intense suspicion. Apart from some pretty inconsistent social faux pas someone might step into. It's just some leader on the couch using their quantum text messanger to chat freely with anyone from templars to elven members of the criminal underclass.

It's also possible you weren't trusted with the important stuff.  Maybe they were testing you and you failed.

Nah. My character was trusted and supported by her noble. And my character even stayed loyal even after she was nearly poached by a higher tier noble too. The problem was some poor play on the part of an adjacent veteran noble that staff gave a continuous hand wave to. And some other players that were somehow able to guildsniff her as a unmanifested nilazi.

Oh and the next player I played in the Atrium. And the leadership there was picking fights with my character over some pseudo psychological bullshit and asking questions out loud instead of waying them.

[ShaLeah]

Thank you, Kankwhisperer.

https://youtu.be/N184a23mbp0

Bahaha! I had to watch this several times. Thanks for the chuckle.

You're welcome!

[Lutagar]

I mean, you can also just try bashing someone. There's a reason we have the bash skill.

bash is a dumb meme skill that only has value in the 'rinth

it requires both you and your opponent to be on foot which almost never happens outside of cities, no one but rukkians and elves have any business being unmouted

if you do it in a city then enjoy being ganked by 200 hg soldiers while you try to recover from the delay

[Cind]

-It is Treason to kill a noble peer.
-It is a common crime, punishable by death, to strike a noble (as a commoner).

read board 4

Why the difference? A noble can't kill one of their peers, it is still against the law for them to do that. Although they can kill someone significantly lower in rank. And obviously against the law to kill a noble that is higher rank than you, or for a commoner to kill a noble.

A noble could strike another noble.

Crimes that are Treason are against the law for Nobles. Thanks PCs that tossed out Treason for every petty crime for the clarification.

This is badass. In our modern world, we don't realize that most people were essentially either tools, taxable assets or obstacles to the 1% for most of history. Even Arm slavery is a different bag of tricks compared to what was going on in America a couple hundred years back. There were whites (and maybe some blacks) back then, for example, who believed that slaves weren't capable of the same level of love as whites were--- I've never heard someone in Arm say something like that about slaves, especially since the process of becoming a slave is vastly different in the game, and isn't dependent on the same fulfillment conditions as American slavery was, and latter-day European slavery. In an instant, one can become a 'possession' or 'a free person' and this seems to be the main distinction from my usually indie commoner eyes.

The established law also explains why people are complaining about every pc commoner aide and servant of a noble House getting ganked every few months. There is everything to gain and nothing to lose from killing the servant of your rival--- save, perhaps, the worst case scenario being losing an exceptionally skilled assassin in a botched attempt that does not take the life of the target. Killing in Arm is pretty brutal, though, in game room where the assassin would be expected to try to take down the target.

Especially since a Fale noble who has killed seven of Lady Fancy Oash's aides is more likely to be rewarded than anything, I think? Nicer quarters, more power in their House, more likely to get what they want. Correct me if I'm wrong on this point--- I've played almost no noble House roles, and don't remember how their world works, which is usually vastly different from the common sphere.

[Miradus]

The evolution of a noble's aide is often hilarious.

Meek and obsequious and polite to everyone right out of chargen, and then as soon as they get their cloak they often turn into a raging asshole to everyone else. Not all of them go through that transition, but so many of them do. I especially love the ones who sit in the Gaj and ignore the pissing, vomiting, brawling emotes but turn their nose up at the man in the dirty cloak sitting next to them.

Awhile back I had this one character, who had been pretty decent, suddenly come into the bar and start sneering at everyone. "I'm an aide now", is the reason. And I just couldn't help but start snickering because I knew that literally a few hours before one of my crew had killed the other aide which gave him the job opening.

I love that aides complain about being killed. I imagine the pawns on a chessboard feel the same way.

[roughneck]

I love that aides complain about being killed. I imagine the pawns on a chessboard feel the same way.

Close the thread, we have a winner.

[Bebop]

I love that aides complain about being killed. I imagine the pawns on a chessboard feel the same way.

Close the thread, we have a winner.

This thread is quickly losing track of the original point which was intended to be a macro look at PK not a micro one.

1) This is a game.  Be creative.  Keep in mind there is a limited sandbox.  Challenge yourself to RP out events instead of constantly resorting to the almighty PKill if it doesn't make the story better.

2) Code should not be slanted towards a hack and slash game, and should infact be slanted towards RP and the story.  Including, allowing support characters, and high society characters with common sense to survive in appropriately populated areas, or at least for there to be some recourse if there is an immensely public attempt (successful or no) on their life in such areas.

No one is saying PK should go away.

I am simply imploring players to employee some creativity to deepen the story and also for the code to be looked at where it fails to accurately represent the game world. 

This smug discourse on aides and bites of hearsay about how "one time this or that" aren't reflective of the game as a whole or profound and are indeed completely pointless, actually. 

Nor do we "have a winner" because this isn't a competition.  In fact, you need to take whatever level of politicking and sarcasm you enjoy in the game and remove it from the GDB discussion with actual people.  It really doesn't belong here and it's counterproductive.  Thanks.

[roughneck]

I love that aides complain about being killed. I imagine the pawns on a chessboard feel the same way.

Close the thread, we have a winner.

Nor do we "have a winner" because this isn't a competition.  In fact, you need to take whatever level of politicking and sarcasm you enjoy in the game and remove it from the GDB discussion with actual people.  It really doesn't belong here and it's counterproductive.  Thanks.

I just thought it was clever and wanted to pump the post up a bit. I like chess.

But to contribute further than just praising wit, I think that the whole matter is all very subjective. There is a little bit of full-on disagreement in this thread, but mostly opinions landing on different places within a scale of:

PK makes RP better -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PK ruins stories

Anyone who plays armageddon is somewhere on that line. I happen to be very far to the left, because I like rp'ing violence, and I like the rp associated with people trying to kill me. PK has kept me in armageddon. I have sent kudos to those who have pk'd me, and kudos to those I have pk'd, when appropriate. I also respect that everyone isn't me, so I try to respect what they might enjoy, but mostly I just try to respect the rules of the game that I like.

We will never have everyone landing on the same place on the pk scale, so we have staff who get to determine how much room we get on this scale for acceptable play. If it were me, I would allow, even encourage players to go further to the pk side of the scale, and let the blood more freely. But it's not my game, and I'm not the only player, so I try my very goddamn best to work within the confines of the range that staff has set, based on the feedback they provide, and enjoy my very many PC's (180, they all get killed).

Being a human is frustrating when you expect other humans to think like you. So don't expect them to.

Murder is beautiful.

[Miradus]

Ah, Bebop ... in a collaborative world ... you have as much control over the ending of your character's story as you do over the direction a thread is going to take.

Which is to say very fucking little.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Part of the fun in the game in for me is, I never really know if someone I meet wants to kill me or not. I think that's AWESOME.

Sometimes, a PC might wanna be a psychopath that just goes around killing folks because they are insane, and thats alright. Once said lunatic is identified, its up to the other characters in the game to eliminate them. Sometimes, like others have mentioned, your PC might be killed for reasons you don't know, and thats okay too.

I do believe that staff is right about wanting a reason at least for killing folks, especially if you want to play a psycho murderer. You should have that in your bio or background, and they are not asking for an entire paper, or even paragraph I bet, just a one liner of why....

Edit: Moderated my own post because I realized I posted something that derailed this thread and is apparently too touchy to discuss here. Sorry.

[boog]

But the docs literally say men and women are equal. Racism and classism are the only isms I can think of off of the top of my head that should exist.

[evilcabbage]

sexism does not exist. racism based on skin color does not exist.

racism based on whether you're human or an elf does. that's the end of that discussion. sexism is unnecessary in this game when there are plenty of other ism's that we can rely on, like "filthy elf" and "stupid stump" and "disgusting breed".

women in game are capable of the same feats of strength, intelligence, toughness, and mobility as men, of the same race. that will not change. it should not change. that is how zalanthas is.

[boog]

What he said.

[Armaddict]

I don't think we need to keep on driving the 'PvP good' point any further because I haven't seen it come under actual attack in awhile now.  I will just note that most people are already trying to liven up their story in the game through whatever means they have and can think of.

I'm not -refuting- your point or arguing with it, BUT...

But the docs literally say men and women are equal. Racism and classism are the only isms I can think of off of the top of my head that should exist.

It's important to remember that not every person naturally conforms to that.  It's the baseline of society, but there are deviances based on this or that or whatever.  Sexism doesn't exist in the system, women are regarded as completely capable of doing what men can.  But there may be women out there who still hate things about men, or men who hate things about women, or insecure men & women who have weird reactions to their insecurity, and etc.

That's been my take on it for awhile, which allows me to both explain anomalies without getting into 'You best fix yoself' mode with the opposing player, while also trying to reinforce the norm to the best of my OOC ability without having to worry too hard about when I make a mistake or misinterpret something.

[boog]

Oh, sure. But it definitely should not be the norm and I think your way of handling it in game is stellar.

[Bebop]

Ah, Bebop ... in a collaborative world ... you have as much control over the ending of your character's story as you do over the direction a thread is going to take.

Which is to say very fucking little.

Sexism IG should be a different topic.  This thread has run it's course.  Staff please lock?

[lairos]

This thread has gone back and forth on several different subjects. PK and its place, RP over PK, coded protections from PK and "safe" places to try and not be PK'd and others in between. At the end of the day, I think staff does a good job of watching over this and keeping players accountable for their PK. I'm sure bringing it up to players like it has been here can provide different ideas that maybe they can utilize over PK, if applicable. I'm not one personally to always go straight for the PK and tend to give ways out. Us players are given control of that story along with the ability to determine if our character would do something or not which is exactly how it should be. There are always consequences for your actions IC if your caught as well.

I personally don't feel anyone, other than staff and sometimes not even then, should be able to judge to tell you that your character should have done something else other than PK. Often their are more plots that stem from PK's even if the PK stops other plots. I am not arguing that there are circumstances where other things can be done other than PK because there are circumstances where that is the case. I do think giving the players the benefit of the doubt that other measures have been taken or tried (if possible) have been done.

I know some people have been jaded from people not even trying to RP during intense scenes or trying to run when it doesn't make sense to get away from those scenes. On the flip side even trying to give them a scene where they end up being pk'd instead. This tends to leave characters, or even sadly sometimes players themselves, not giving chances so they don't get away. I'm not saying that is right either, but if we are looking at things as a whole, I would said that is a huge factor as well in why people tend to go more towards that direction over other options.

[Krath]

This thread has gone back and forth on several different subjects. PK and its place, RP over PK, coded protections from PK and "safe" places to try and not be PK'd and others in between. At the end of the day, I think staff does a good job of watching over this and keeping players accountable for their PK. I'm sure bringing it up to players like it has been here can provide different ideas that maybe they can utilize over PK, if applicable. I'm not one personally to always go straight for the PK and tend to give ways out. Us players are given control of that story along with the ability to determine if our character would do something or not which is exactly how it should be. There are always consequences for your actions IC if your caught as well.

I personally don't feel anyone, other than staff and sometimes not even then, should be able to judge to tell you that your character should have done something else other than PK. Often their are more plots that stem from PK's even if the PK stops other plots. I am not arguing that there are circumstances where other things can be done other than PK because there are circumstances where that is the case. I do think giving the players the benefit of the doubt that other measures have been taken or tried (if possible) have been done.

I know some people have been jaded from people not even trying to RP during intense scenes or trying to run when it doesn't make sense to get away from those scenes. On the flip side even trying to give them a scene where they end up being pk'd instead. This tends to leave characters, or even sadly sometimes players themselves, not giving chances so they don't get away. I'm not saying that is right either, but if we are looking at things as a whole, I would said that is a huge factor as well in why people tend to go more towards that direction over other options.

Agreed.

[boog]

^ True.

[Feco]

I'd just like to add that I like playing in a world where dying suddenly, maybe for as much as a pair of boots, is a possibility.

To me, this game is about little shits fighting under the bootprints of vicious tyrants.  Some of the little shits like to think they're better than the other little shits, and the world never gets better, because they're all concerned with getting to the top of the stomping pile.

I've committed wanton PK.  I've also not PKd when I could in order to make things more interesting.  Sometimes, however, it just doesn't make things more interesting than a good, vicious fight and murder, or a surprise head smashing.

This is an RPI and we have a responsibility to each other to play in service of a story, but I think the uniqueness of Armageddon stems from its brutality.  I'm here to chop mothafuckas up with bone swords.  I want my stories violent, gritty, generally hilarious or ridiculous, and oftentimes too short.

If we're undergoing a shift in our player population, I suspect it doesn't have anything to do with our content, but rather with the medium.  I'd rather continue to embrace Armageddon to the end than try and change what is at its core.

[roughneck]

I'd just like to add that I like playing in a world where dying suddenly, maybe for as much as a pair of boots, is a possibility.

If we're undergoing a shift in our player population, I suspect it doesn't have anything to do with our content, but rather with the medium.  I'd rather continue to embrace Armageddon to the end than try and change what is at its core.

This made me think, and connect this thread to the 'Estranged Veteran's' thread.

Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

[ShaLeah]

I'd just like to add that I like playing in a world where dying suddenly, maybe for as much as a pair of boots, is a possibility.

If we're undergoing a shift in our player population, I suspect it doesn't have anything to do with our content, but rather with the medium.  I'd rather continue to embrace Armageddon to the end than try and change what is at its core.

This made me think, and connect this thread to the 'Estranged Veteran's' thread.

Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

THIS is one of the reason I've pulled away OUTSIDE of the ooc reasons.

Pkilling, not knowing which enemy will strike first, killing those you hate or worse, killing those you love, are the hardest of lessons on Zalanthas.

The state of PK is in the eye of the beholder.  If the vocal majority were to accurately be indicating the feelings of majority of the players there is absolutely no question that we think...

Murder is beautiful.

We realize not everyone agrees, maybe instead of asking what the state of PK is we should discuss if it's possible. IS there is a way to avoid being pkilled outside of playing an iso tent owning loner?

[Lizzie]

Of course there's a way to avoid being PKed. Get killed by a carru instead. Or a mantis. Or a bahamet, or mekillot, or raptor, tregil, gith, gurth, greth, geth, NPC soldier, NPC raider, NPC elf, the shield wall, the silt sea. Or store.

Moral of the story: Each and every one of your characters will, at some point, cease to exist. You are welcome to have them die off to the environment, or store them. But many of us find it infinitely more fun for our characters to die because someone thought they were important enough to kill.

[MeTekillot]

It's also possible to die of old age once your endurance bottoms out.

[Heade]

IS there is a way to avoid being pkilled outside of playing an iso tent owning loner?

Owning a tent might get you killed.