Androgyny

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

Considering I've had multiple characters who refer to people they're intentionally dehumanizing (magickers, etc) as "it" the suggestion that I should refer to all androgynous people as "it" is rather disturbing.

That's all I'm gonna say on this.

+1, please only do this if your character is terrible and you are making them do and say gross things to enhance their terribleness. I will give the benefit of the doubt that this suggestion was not seriously thought out before it was made.

I believe this initial comment by Delirium based on Brokkr's statement about how genderless / ungendered / neuter / neither he or she characters are always to be 'it' by the code currently, not someone's IG action, though I may be mistaken?

I'm trying to carefully word things here. Sorry if this comes across as odd.

[Lizzie]

I've referred to mutants as "its" in the past. Calling something/someone an "it" in game, is not "dehumanizing" any more than calling a half-elf a breed or half-ear is dehumanizing, or calling a rinthi a rinthi instead of a person is dehumanizing.

Stop shoving your real-world sensitivities into a fantasy game.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I've referred to mutants as "its" in the past. Calling something/someone an "it" in game, is not "dehumanizing" any more than calling a half-elf a breed or half-ear is dehumanizing, or calling a rinthi a rinthi instead of a person is dehumanizing.

Stop shoving your real-world sensitivities into a fantasy game.

+1

Roleplaying:
Human character is as broad as human ability. Virtually any sort of disposition can be found amongst humans, and humans are allowed the greatest latitude in inventing their personalities. For all intents and purposes, a human is able to become whatever he or she wishes to become, without restriction.

[Delirium]

Okay, because clearly I wasn't understood correctly, one more time:

Deliberately calling someone "it" is dehumanizing. It is okay to do that IC if you are playing a character who wants to do that.

It is not okay to have the game force us to call anyone who is degendered "it" from an OOC, coded standpoint.

It is the very essence of taking a real-world prejudice into the game.

Be racist and dehumanizing toward magickers, elves, etc.

Do not be racist and dehumanizing to someone based on their gender, just as you shouldn't be sexist toward a woman (ha, ha).

If you can't see the difference then I don't think I'm going to get through to you on a GDB thread.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

Having an IC reason to dehumanise someone is fine. It is, however, still dehumanising - to say it isn't is delusional, as dehumanising is your intent in character. Hence you using it on mutants - to dehumanise them. But that's FINE.

To have it be the OOC coded default - and not only the default, but the ONLY option - is OOCly dehumanising, for one. Additionally reasonless, and easily fixed.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

"What sex would you like your character to be? Man or whore?"

"What do you mean it's sexist? When I'm in Luirs, I call people whores all the time. Especially the whores."

[Lizzie]

Delirium, there are males, there are females, and there are "something other than male or female." That's all there is in Armageddon. There is no third gender. There are two genders, and there is no gender at all. So either my character perceives yours as a male, or a female, or she will perceive your character as "something other than male or female." In the case of "something other than male or female," my preferred pronoun is it. Not they. You are free to refer to your character as they, but I am also free to refer to your character as it. For any reason, especially if my character perceives your character to be neither decisively male, or decisively female.

The word "it" is an absolutely perfectly useful and appropriate word to describe "I have no idea what gender this person is, and this person has chosen to be deliberately obscure about it."

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

Anyone can say it in character. That's fine. I want the code to /not/. What happens in a fantasy world is fine, but the code and subsequently displayed output is always an OOC construct.

[Bebop]

Delirium, there are males, there are females, and there are "something other than male or female." That's all there is in Armageddon. There is no third gender. There are two genders, and there is no gender at all. So either my character perceives yours as a male, or a female, or she will perceive your character as "something other than male or female." In the case of "something other than male or female," my preferred pronoun is it. Not they. You are free to refer to your character as they, but I am also free to refer to your character as it. For any reason, especially if my character perceives your character to be neither decisively male, or decisively female.

The word "it" is an absolutely perfectly useful and appropriate word to describe "I have no idea what gender this person is, and this person has chosen to be deliberately obscure about it."

Do you know if Lizzie likes blue or purple?
I don't know.  What don't you go ask it?

Did Lizzie get that report in?
Yeah, it did.

Lizzie is dressed in black today.
Yeah it looks real good on it.

C'mon.  It's obviously dehumanizing and rude and not something relevant.  We're not going to coded refer to people as him, her and it's.  Stahp.

[Malken]

No gender = mutants!

[Lizzie]

Delirium, there are males, there are females, and there are "something other than male or female." That's all there is in Armageddon. There is no third gender. There are two genders, and there is no gender at all. So either my character perceives yours as a male, or a female, or she will perceive your character as "something other than male or female." In the case of "something other than male or female," my preferred pronoun is it. Not they. You are free to refer to your character as they, but I am also free to refer to your character as it. For any reason, especially if my character perceives your character to be neither decisively male, or decisively female.

The word "it" is an absolutely perfectly useful and appropriate word to describe "I have no idea what gender this person is, and this person has chosen to be deliberately obscure about it."

Do you know if Lizzie likes blue or purple?
I don't know.  What don't you go ask it?

Did Lizzie get that report in?
Yeah, it did.

Lizzie is dressed in black today.
Yeah it looks real good on it.

C'mon.  It's obviously dehumanizing and rude and not something relevant.  We're not going to coded refer to people as him, her and it's.  Stahp.

1. Lizzie isn't my character. I don't give a shit what you use to refer to my character. That's my point. You can call it an it. There's nothing for me to get personally offended by. It's a character in a game, where the setting doesn't even take place on the planet Earth.
2. The game already DOES code it as him, her, or it.

[Inky]

No gender = mutants!

Come now. This is just intentionally ignorant.

[Inky]

Delirium, there are males, there are females, and there are "something other than male or female." That's all there is in Armageddon. There is no third gender....

Lizzie DESTROYS tumblr feminazi in debate using FACTS and LOGIC

[Pale Horse]

[Armageddon Lover]

Gonna be a whole lot more grabbing around here if this goes into play.

I'm not really for this change. I think it's real world PC bleed. Even now with transgendered and everything in between, the sound of ones voice is very much determined by gender.  My tolerant side would say set your voice to soprano/alto/tenor/bass and the gender can be masculine, neutral or feminine. You choose it at char gen and it's like that forever. Or make a third gender.

Inclusion. Murder, Corruption, Betrayal, Sensitivity, Inclusion. Heh.

Allow people to set their vocal descriptors but be able to hear the inflection in when eavesdropping in another room so that you know it was the Jal who said xyz because you recognized the voice. 2 out of 10 for me on the whole deal.

My racist human characters ALL call other races its, by the way.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

For the last time for those who can't read, this is a change in code. You can still call people whatever the loving crap you want in game. This is a change  in how the hard code goes about displaying things. It is purely an OOC construct for an OOC issue. Nobody is seeking to hold pride rallies in Zalanthan streets. Nobody.

[Shabago]

7 pages worth of back and forth, with no further progress on the topic seems enough to me, especially when the last two are getting straight into attack territory rather then debate.

ETA: Obviously the thread was seen, with various staff postings, so it will be discussed staff side.