"There's a pit in the north" or "Aaaaaaaaaaarrgh I didn't see it comiiiiiing"

[WithSprinkles]

Characters can and usually are opportunistic and mean here. Even if we disagree, hopefully players can explain things and collaborate together. Or people who might not have been a perfect fit won't ever learn to be and won't come back to make new characters.

I happen to agree with the travel aspect of this post though. Most scenarios that I have seen (save the one I pointed out a few posts up and others have stated that other holes are just "wtf where?!"), you have an opportunity to see drops, so paying attention is your own responsibility. Read and slow down or make triggers and highlights to help you in a pinch.

If you find a drop not properly described, maybe TYPO it so that staff can add either echoes or the appropriate descriptions? Maybe it was overlooked. I don't think they are specifically out to get us (unless it is an RPT and they are specifically out to get us).

Otherwise, like I said, I have mudlet highlight words like 'cliff' to begin with. I also alias the word STOP, but lots of us do. Just take your time and think of small things that help YOU out there and you'll be fine. Don't overdo it. Reactive triggers are a no-no, but highlights and shortcuts for words that you KNOW that you typo in a panic are useful as hell.

[Riev]

As someone who has lost 50day characters to "put one extra north into the command buffer and didn't realize it", I can say it suuuuuucks.

The only thing that sucks more is if the world doesn't react to it somehow. Hopefully, with a wagon (that costs one MILLION coins at minimum despite a 5d merchant being able to build component pieces), the loss of one is a TERRIBLE hit to whichever group lost it, and it turns into a lot of really cool threads to pull.

I know when I die, I like to think its more than some fake "Oh we'll miss that guy" and more "Who can we blame his death on?"

[KittenLicks]

This isn't Mario Brothers. Let's put on our big boy pants.

I don't really have a horse in this race, but I just want to say that avoiding falling into holes you can see is a big part of the Mario franchise, so in a way, it kind of is Mario Brothers.

That is all, please resume discussion.

[Grapes]

This isn't Mario Brothers. Let's put on our big boy pants.

I don't really have a horse in this race, but I just want to say that avoiding falling into holes you can see is a big part of the Mario franchise, so in a way, it kind of is Mario Brothers.

That is all, please resume discussion.

Haha, yeah, people forget there's a term "Nintendo hard" meant to describe games that are just absurdly difficult, hint: It's not talking about much post-N64... then again people also sometimes forget about the older arcade games, where the closest thing to an ending you get is the game glitching out as it runs out of memory, where everyone loses and you're out money and time, all because of some soul-devouring quarter-eating monstrosity.

While I agree that this shouldn't turn into beginner's night at the bowling alley, this is, as I have been lead to believe, a role-playing game, and as such, obstacles to immersion should be removed where reasonable. I'd assume if Pac-Man came wakka-wakkaing down a rinth alleyway and bit your head off, you'd, kind of want your quarter back, but this is Arm, a magicker probably did it. Still the point is it wouldn't really fit the setting. If the circumstances regarding a specific time and place are such that a swan dive off a cliff makes absolutely no sense given the character(s) involved, and there is a solution, then it's a solvable barrier to immersion, and likely should be as much a priority as denying magical cat-girl applications.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

There should be cliffs. There should be pitfalls. Ways to wake you up and make you realise you're in fucking Zalanthas.

If they're poorly marked or not clear, that's different. But this isn't a stroll in the park. The marked and clear cliffs/pitfalls are there to remind you where you are and stop you from spamwalking directions.

[WithSprinkles]

I don't really have a horse in this race, but I just want to say that avoiding falling into holes you can see is a big part of the Mario franchise, so in a way, it kind of is Mario Brothers.

That is all, please resume discussion.

This and the Pac Man comment made me kind of consider changing my death *ding* to the Mario Brothers death ding. Not for creature deaths, but for PC deaths (mine and others) so that when emotions are high, it could hopefully jerk me out of the moment a bit and remind me of the 'game' aspect of things.

Me: Oh noes! Tense moment and we're surrounded! The stakes are high! We will all fite together!
*Super Mario death sound!*
Me: Pppft! Well that didn't go so.. well.

I thought of characters falling down holes and Mario and drew the SAME conclusion.

[The Lonely Hunter]

...this is, as I have been lead to believe, a role-playing game, and as such, obstacles to immersion should be removed where reasonable

In my opinion reading the room descriptions and being aware of the environment are a part of the immersion, not an obstacle to it. I can not think of a place where you can fall in that there isn't some sort of description that lets you know what you are getting into. Usually that is in the room description itself.

[Grapes]

...this is, as I have been lead to believe, a role-playing game, and as such, obstacles to immersion should be removed where reasonable

In my opinion reading the room descriptions and being aware of the environment are a part of the immersion, not an obstacle to it. I can not think of a place where you can fall in that there isn't some sort of description that lets you know what you are getting into. Usually that is in the room description itself.

True, still, ever been fully aware of the presence of a massive hole and slipped and missed a key when trying to nervously look a direction? Although that specific scenario can partially be attributed to "Well, honestly you WERE getting a little close to the edge of doom anyway, who's to say a land-slide didn't take place from weathering?", and can partially be the nature of certain skills (depending on situation)... easily remedied by planning ahead and aliasing certain keys for your nervous lookie-loo rubbernecking tendencies.

A big, huge deal imo is the nosave climb follow flag (well, that and no longer accidently fleeing "up" for the auto crit-fail), imo that's enough for me, unless anyone else has any better ideas that don't involve slapping training wheels on things, because I sure don't. It's more a case of, "well, then THAT happened" when you do it to yourself, you can't emote it out (since you're dead), but you can reason how it could have happened.

[The Lonely Hunter]

unless anyone else has any better ideas that don't involve slapping training wheels on things

Leaving it how it is and just dealing with it comes to mind. 

[Delirium]

I'm still waiting for more watering holes to be actually dangerous because predators lying in wait, and for there to be poisonous plants and biting flies that cause sickness and all sorts of ways to make the wilderness actually miserable even if you don't get into combat. Unless you are prepared with antidotes and preventatives and sharp senses.

I'm fine with pitfalls. They're a little goofy unless you imagine it right, but they add real danger.

[chrisdcoulombe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8hT3oDDf6c

[Asanadas]

https://www.lua.org/pil/contents.html

Here's where you start. Build a plug-in that checks a database for known descriptions indicating a fall exit which prevents movement in that direction.

You can start counting the hours from now until you're done. It will take you less time from right now to scripting an implantation in Lua, than it will to convince this community (nevermind the administration) to implement your suggestion. That time window is a tangible constant, and all constants are less than infinity.

[seidhr]

*deep thoughts, with Seidhr*

Wonder how hard it would be to create randomized pits in the desert that opened and closed on a scripted basis, even boot to boot?  They'd be avoidable (and not necessarily deep - maybe having a nasty critter in the bottom instead) but you'd actually have to read where you were going.

Now -that- would be cool.

[deskoft]

Seidhr,

I've always thought that creating a dynamically changing wilderness is hopefully the future for Armageddon. I think in the future, Arm might end exploring procedurally generated content every now and then, or at least more dynamic content (which we did years ago when we added changes to a room's description based on more variables like time and climate, if I recall well). I think with the new popularity of low-graphic games (Neo Scavenger on mobile platforms, for example), and the lasting, not-fading niche of people that look for experience vs graphic in their roleplaying games, its the right way to go.

[seidhr]

There is already a fair amount of stuff that is populated semi-randomly - to the astute observer.

There are resources that pop up like this:  mineral, animal, and vegetable.  We have a couple really nice scripts in the toolbox that let us do things like this.

[deskoft]

Seems like I was preaching to the choir then! That's awesome.

[Delirium]

There's at least one plant that spawns in random locations, which makes it an adventure to find and collect it instead of bopping to the same spot every time. There's also dunes that seem to move around (though I kinda wish they also blocked your view).

[Sorry]

I thought random holes was already a thing, the mystery is totally gone now It was staff laying out traps all along like

[tapas]

Think we could get a list of fall room descriptors so we could just highlight them in text? That would be peachy.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

Think we could get a list of fall room descriptors so we could just highlight them in text? That would be peachy.

Sure, why don't we get a list of all auto-hostile enemies so we can highlight that too? Or highlights of moves that might poison you?

Just... Keep your eyes open. You're in the desert, shit's dangerous. Breathe, go slow, be careful. You can highlight 'chasm', 'hole', 'pit', 'slope' and so on all you want, but having staff spill the beans on exact fall-room descriptors spoils the mystery and fear of any and all travel, not to mention the mystery and fear of coming up across a chasm that isn't a fall-room, but just a climb-room, and so on.

Stay attentive, or pay for Byn accompaniment.

[cnemus]

Stay attentive, or pay for Byn accompaniment.

In this example are they the canary that falls into the mine first?

[Strongheart]

Think we could get a list of fall room descriptors so we could just highlight them in text? That would be peachy.

Sure, why don't we get a list of all auto-hostile enemies so we can highlight that too? Or highlights of moves that might poison you?

Just... Keep your eyes open. You're in the desert, shit's dangerous. Breathe, go slow, be careful. You can highlight 'chasm', 'hole', 'pit', 'slope' and so on all you want, but having staff spill the beans on exact fall-room descriptors spoils the mystery and fear of any and all travel, not to mention the mystery and fear of coming up across a chasm that isn't a fall-room, but just a climb-room, and so on.

Stay attentive, or pay for Byn accompaniment.

Well said!

I especially like how it seems to slow down people for once. The only things I wish would change are things like climbing checks. Strength plays a key role in order to recover and scramble for a purchase yet we all know how weak (for example) elves can be.. and I imagine them to be climbing alot given their natural agility as well as long reach.

Although, this isn't really a complaint so much as an observation. You'd have to pretty unlucky to fail a climb check, and the results can be disastrous! So, maybe it's fine as is? Adds a bit more danger to the mix.

[Riev]

The answer is, clearly, make all holes a "hidden" NPC. You need to roll a scan/perception check to determine if you even SEE the hole. If you enter the room with a hole, it will "cast" a relocation spell that drops you into a pit room.


(This is entirely facetious)