Why is monogamy so common?

[Envy]

While I personally prefer having characters that are monogamous just because I don't have it in me to RP actually being polygamous. It's neat to see folk who can do stuff like that and really get into their characters and use it to drive plots. However I don't think either would be seen as 'wrong' since they can both be easily understood as to why someone would operate that way and IC justifications could be made for both sides. As long as people can see that maybe it's nice to just have one person to invest in entirely in a world where that's rare could be appealing I don't have problems seeing how they can be spreading their love just to ease the burden of living in that same dangerous world.

Overall just cool to see its got people talking though and I thought I'd offer my two cents.

[Dar]

There is nothing against docs about being possessive towards another person. It has nothing to do with marriages either. Children are possessive of their parents and get jealous when their parents pay more attention to their siblings. People are sometimes jealous of their 'pets' when they allow petting access to strangers, when the owner truly believed that their pet allowed that only to the owner.  There is nothing strange, or abnormal about jealousy and possessiveness in Zalanthas.

It might be weird to say that no, you cant bang that someone, because they are a 'mate' of some whoever else. But it's totally fine to say, "Ehhh. Be careful about that one. He/She is hot, but her/his mate is a jealous type with a big giant bone sword and not a lot of brains."

In my view of how the game world is, the concepts of monogamy and polyamory are completely irrelevant. Some people are in some kind of connection and they seem to not be possessive of each other. And some people are in some kind of connection, and at least 'one' seems possessive. And that's it. From there on, let the romance plot develop however it manages.

[TheHandmaid]

Not everyone wants to share their toys.

[satine]

Just taking a quick moment to reiterate for the nth time, no one is rp shaming, or supposed to be, rp shaming anyone here.

This is just a discussion of relationship dynamics. Be happy.

[Vex]

Just taking a quick moment to reiterate for the nth time, no one is rp shaming, or supposed to be, rp shaming anyone here.

That isn't really, how it looks, tbh.

[satine]

Just taking a quick moment to reiterate for the nth time, no one is rp shaming, or supposed to be, rp shaming anyone here.

That isn't really, how it looks, tbh.

Can't control how you interpret things.

Most of my conversation has been hypothetical theory? Also been struggling to bring conversation back from "cheating is okay" and "to much/lets have more mudsex" to "why don't commoners organise in large functional family units".  Most of which has been countered with "well x sleeps with whoever they want" yadda yadda.

which still isn't the point.

we are talking about if/why characters should/can engage in relationships with more than 2 people on the "z" standard.

Not who/if your character can/should kank ig, or if the game needs more mudsex.

We can have this entire conversation without involving anyone's rp at all.

What are the pro's of monogamy? polygamy? this is a discussion of relationship structuring. not your personal opinion of mudsex.

[Delirium]

Somewhat ironically, one reason trying to have functional polyamorous/polygamist setups that aren't virtual is difficult in game... well... is on full display in this thread.

"You just want to have more mudsex/cheat/judge me for being monogamous!"

*sigh*

I just want to explore the sometimes alien mindset of a person brought up in the harsh culture of a dying desert planet, okay?

[Decadent Decisions]

The name of the game (not literally) is murder, corruption, and betrayal. Monogamy is more commonly 'claimed' because the fastest way to die is to drop your pants (and armor and choppin'-mothafuckaz-bonesword) with the wrong person.

I can't speak for everyone, and I've played both sides of the spectrum. For every reason you can give me why polyamory or polygamy are the suitable go-to, I can give you a reason (that WILL come up IC) why you might not. Playing in Zalanthas is about survival. You're also blatantly ignoring that much of the instincts in human beings encourages a certain aggressiveness toward seeing your own genetics into the future, often times at the cost of other peoples'.

To be clear, I don't think monogamy is the go-to in game, even in PCs actions. Most aren't monogamous best I can tell.

Some people don't want to share their most valuable thing to them (objectifying people isn't bad in Zalanthas, mmkay? Slaves are nice.) and they're not fine with the risks that might be associated with such. If I let my sexii hunky McRaider Badass who I keep locked in my basement play with the other fine dime, he might start liking her more than me, and then one day when that fine woman wants to kill me and pushes my Raider-with-PTSD right, I get my throat slit while my hair is getting pulled. If I'd just not let that raider develop a deeper bond with that woman, I'd be alive still. Woe is me.

If you want to argue that the involved allowance of the parties may never result in emotional connection, sure, I can believe that. I can just also believe that every study basically ever on how endorphins and dopamine work disagree.

Monogamy is safe. (if your partner is safe)

Polyamory often requires you to trust whoever your partner is with(many wouldn't), or not care. And if you don't care, you put yourself at risk in the gritty, gritty world of Zalanthas. Just my two shiny pennies, I suppose.

edit: Added a word so that there wasn't misunderstanding as to two separate opinions in the same post.

[Cind]

Generally, when I see a long-lived person, or someone who has built up a legacy for themselves, go get a girl/boyfriend, I think, 'That player has decided to add a risk.' The thought is reflexive and a first impression. I must not be alone, right?

While most people in the Known struggle to survive, at least after a while most players by virtue of this being a game are more than able to take care of themselves, so most of the time there is no benefit to having a mate/lover, as you will not be protected by their House or whatever in most cases. If you're the mate of an Arm lieutenant and you had something of enough value stolen, then yes, you're going to get some attention. But as soon as someone steals from the Arm barracks, you're either forgotten or put on the back burner until the Arm literally has nothing else to do or your lieutenant girlfriend logs out.

[Grapes]

Why wait until you're established codedly and socially to do what ought to come naturally?

EDIT: Seriously though, why NOT take risks? To say there's no advantage? That's not true at all. If you have to hit 10/20 days played before you consider exploring potential weaknesses and/or character flaws, those might be the wrong reasons. I don't want to misinterpret you, Cind, but what you said makes me a little grumpy, I likely misread what you meant to say.

[Vex]

not your personal opinion of mudsex.

You wanted some some hot PC action, got rejected because he/her is in relations, so you came to the forums, to apply a lil' bit of ooc pressure/shame, but you didn't get the usual group nod you expected. Now it looks, like you're doing damage control for yourself, in your own thread.

Decadent Decisions has, a really good post, that, imo, should probably, put the thread to bed. Really, very well said.

[Grapes]

not your personal opinion of mudsex.

You wanted some some hot PC action, got rejected because he/her is in relations, so you came to the forums, to apply a lil' bit of ooc pressure/shame, but you didn't get the usual group nod you expected. Now it looks, like you're doing damage control for yourself, in your own thread.

Decadent Decisions has, a really good post, that, imo, should probably, put the thread to bed. Really, very well said.

Please cool it, this is the kind of flaming that gets threads locked, and this conversation has a bit more time to go. If you have a problem with an IC event that happened please file a player complaint. This is not the place for making such arguments. I agree, Decadent Decisions has a good post, whether I agree with it or not.

[Armageddon Lover]

Maybe it's because of this thread but I'm seeing a KRATHload more characters being vocal and condemning of exclusive relationships IG. THAT needs to stop.

The documents specify a broad view.  How one chooses to play out an intimate relationship is ENTIRELY UP TO the players involved.  Questioning someone adnauseum about why they're not fucking you cause they have a mate or why they're pissed that they found out their supposedly monogamous mate was knocking boots with 5 others is just as fucked up as its counterparts. Handle it ic but be prepared to be schooled if you're playing the exception. 

Some responses come across like the poster thinks monogamy is as bad as bedding magickers or other races.

[Melkor]

Maybe monogamy is common because not everybody in Zalanthas is a Casanova, and even finding one person to tolerate your fucked-up face and body-odor is a hard enough feat for most commoners to accomplish.

That, and the PC dating pool is way too small for players to have their picks-of-the-litter, unless they literally have no standards. (Standards being age, species, physical attractiveness, wealth, personality, etc.)
It is clear that PCs DO have standards, because if your average bynner were to stand in the Gaj and shout for all to hear "Who wants to fuck?!?" I doubt they would get many propositions, if any.

So yeah, ICly, because your character is gross and nobody loves them, except for that 1 other gross person, who will probably be dead in a couple weeks.
OOCly, there are not enough players for everyone to be fucking 5 different people.  if 40 PCs are online, maybe 10 share your species, 8 of those share your social stature, 4 of those are in your city, 2 of them are tolerable to be around, 1 actually wants love in their life, but fuck... they already have their fucking turaal...

Lets have this convo again if the issue persists when we have 150 PCs online consistently.

[Akariel]

Let me reiterate that trolling, or attempts at baiting people into flame wars are not allowed on these forums. Doing so will get you a nice break from the forums for a few days. Please do not flame/troll/bait. If you don't have something to add to the discussion, it's generally best practice not to post.

[Vex]

Please cool it

it's generally best practice not to post.

Maybe it's because of this thread but I'm seeing a KRATHload more characters being vocal and condemning of exclusive relationships IG.

[sleepyhead]

Why is this so contentious? Play what you want. Represent polygamy if you want. Represent monogamy if you want. Your character can think one or the other is stupid, too. That's allowed. Just as long as there isn't an ooc implication that you're doing it WRONG behind it.

[Delirium]

^^^ yeah.

No one should be condemning sexual practices. Expressing confusion or their own personal preferences, sure.

Unless you're fucking across species/caste lines. Then it's guns out, baby.

MY posts were to remind people that monogamy is not the only one true way to play, and that polyamorous relationships wouldn't be seen as strange. Judging by GDB response (ha, ha, ha)... evidently that isn't an issue after all. I've played all across the spectrum, from both male and female perspectives, and honestly - if there aren't enough PCs to represent what I feel would be the reality of the situation (considering vNPCs, societal expectations, etc), I just bring in virtual people.

Problem solved. It's not that big a deal.

[Akariel]

If you have an issue with how people are playing in game, please submit a player complaint. Vaguebooking about it on the GDB does absolutely zilch as Staff (the people who keep an eye on things like this) do not always read threads like this - nor do we regularly have the time and patience to pick through a vague comment to see who you're talking about.

If you have an issue with someone on the forums baiting/flaming/trolling, please hit the report button as it'll send a report to staff and player moderators so we can look into the post. If you do not hit the report button we will not know about it because we do not read every thread on the GDB.

[Melkor]

Let me reiterate that trolling, or attempts at baiting people into flame wars are not allowed on these forums. Doing so will get you a nice break from the forums for a few days. Please do not flame/troll/bait. If you don't have something to add to the discussion, it's generally best practice not to post.

. . . This isnt directed toward me and my last post, is it . . .??

[Envy]

Let me reiterate that trolling, or attempts at baiting people into flame wars are not allowed on these forums. Doing so will get you a nice break from the forums for a few days. Please do not flame/troll/bait. If you don't have something to add to the discussion, it's generally best practice not to post.

. . . This isnt directed toward me and my last post, is it . . .??

Naw some dude was b8ing really hard and got their stuff deleted.

[satine]

not your personal opinion of mudsex.

You wanted some some hot PC action, got rejected because he/her is in relations, so you came to the forums, to apply a lil' bit of ooc pressure/shame, but you didn't get the usual group nod you expected. Now it looks, like you're doing damage control for yourself, in your own thread.

Decadent Decisions has, a really good post, that, imo, should probably, put the thread to bed. Really, very well said.

Actually my char is in a committed monogamous relationship in game, but I appreciate your ability to make a bunch of lame accusations because you don't like the subject matter of a thread. Way to go, everyone is really impressed.

Actually, what is going on, is that I am a disease ecologist that spent a fair amount of time studying population dynamics through a large arrangement of species. Most of which, when being "r" selected such as humans are in Zal, switch to poly type relationships where either the male or female takes on multiple partners to 1. increase the rate of having offspring 2. have the best genetics for each offspring 3. insure continuation of the species.

I'm not vaugebooking. I posted this in world discussion and not in rp discussion for a reason.
The main reason being that while humans in zal. are "r" selected they still make mate selections like animals which are "k" selected. Even then, I haven't explicitly condemned anyone for their sexual practices, but have repeated try to bring the conversation away from who is fucking who.

As I have stated multiple times, this is not a discussion on your personal opinions on mudsex.

This thread is in -world- discussion and not -rp- discussion.

Also, great post decadant, I have a few small responses but I will have to come back and post more after a short break

[HavokBlue]

If you're reading this thread and feeling salty please go watch some cute cats or smoke some weed or play your favorite video game before posting.

[Vex]

Actually my char is in a committed monogamous relationship in game, but I appreciate your ability to make a bunch of lame accusations because you don't like the subject matter of a thread. Way to go, everyone is really impressed.

I have no preference on the subject matter, and feel that strong opinions in either direction, could only make people uncomfortable. There are people, who will see popular opinion, here, from the minority, and run with it into the game world, to make it the standard.

If you've read the thread, you will no doubt see, that someone has already commented on this very thing happening, just a few posts up. That, is the problem, and the only result that could have come, from a discussion like this.

I'm not really interested, in "smack talk", either.

[satine]

Then why do we even have a world discussion board if we are not allowed to talk about the world? Please stop trying to derail the thread simply because you don't like the subject matter. You don't have to participate here.

Delerium, melkor, grapes, and decadant have all been able to contribute to this thread with actual world discussion about the relationships.

No one here has called for people to icly start bearbateing monogomous relationships.

I should not have to keep explaining this to you, if you don't like the thread.... start your own. Start a discussion about people taking discussion board posts and going out of line ig. In a different thread. Which is not this thread. Which is hear for theoretical discussion about family units and poly relationships in game.

A conversation that is almost impossible to have because everyone either wants to complain about how people are having to much mudsex or throwing a fit about people shaming them in game.

Make your own thread.

Stop derailing this one.

Have your own conversation. in the appropriate board. Which would be the rp board if you have a problem with the way people are rping.

Please allow the people that want to have a theoretical conversation, have their conversation.

delirium, do you ever engage npcs in game as if they have group families? I always fancied some of the house workers that are NPCs as being related, depending on the appearance of the NPCs. Some of the house NPcs look similar so I always imagine them as part of a family unit, either as parent child or a imagine different types of relationships for them. I don't however think these are in any way cannon for the game.