Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?

[LucildaHunta]

I don't think anybody is offended by the suggestions presented. I don't see any indication of that in this thread. Really, subguild tailor or jeweler fixes this problem, no code needed.

What I did see was a reoccurring problem that this game faces; that is someone got frustrated with the game and left. The proposed solution was CODE IT! A total of two people disagreed with that line of thought. Code is not the answer to everything. Suggesting otherwise is not an offense, it's a simple truth. What's wrong with suggesting code is not the answer in this case? Nothing. What's wrong with offering an alternative to a coded solution in this case? Nothing either.

The way I'm looking at it is, if players decided to support and engage in flavor activities, this wouldn't be a problem. Adding a brothel ADDS plot potential in many ways. Adding code just adds a nice little string and tosses you a couple coins, really for spamming a command with the potential to be abused.

I'll put it another way. I remember a time the Byn didn't do anything. Want to know why? Because nobody hired them for anything. Somewhere along the line there was a big player push to hire them for anything. Make up shit for them to do. And people did! Nobody added code to pay the Byn people started hiring the Byn and now they're an integral part of the game. If staff did anything to the Byn the game would explode.

Why can't we make that same conscious choice with flavor roles? Honestly, if I was playing a role where I had to go somewhere and type Turn trick for ten minutes straight to get a ridiculously low amount of coins I would pass on that role. I would also pass on a role where I'm not being engaged in the role I'm presenting. So here, I'm playing a prostitute. In a game like this, I'm not only a prostitute, I'm a spy, I'm an information gatherer, I'm a spreader of misinformation, I'm an assassin, I'm a thief.

If other players choose not to engage me, I'm just bored and I'm going to log off and watch Netflix. Adding a command is not going to help that, because it doesn't address the problem: I wasn't engaged. That's up to other players.

[Vex]

or... get a job with kurac... as a whore.

As some of us have come to learn, clans are a good way, to ruin a perfectly good PC. Joining a clan, should never be a requirement, or necessity, for something that doesn't involved role sponsorship.

RE: whores are hard

All that is required, for someone to be successful as a whore, is the ability, to entertain another PC. That's it, that's all you need, to never want again. But, I should elaborate, on what that means.

Entertaining means, being able to keep up a conversation about nothing, or pick up a dying conversation by coming up with something else to talk about, or ask about, or bounce jokes around so people don't slip into, the dreaded idle zone. It means, going beyond being a face in the crowd, and not sticking to some safe, tired trope. It isn't enough, to write a desc that says you're hot, or to emote how hot you think your PC is, because that doesn't really matter if. Hot or not, if you're boring, you're boring.

I like attractive girls, but I'd drop her in a second, if she's not able to keep up with a conversation. I have lots of attractive options in my life, but most, if not all, of my longer lasting relationships, have been with people who are, being honest, strictly average. The one I miss most, would probably not catch many eyes, but is missed the most, because of the brilliance of her humor, and her honest eyes. The regret, is really, quite real.

This is, the situation of every PC in the game. They have tons, of super hot options, but are going to invest only in the ones, who they like to RP with. Being a 10 is less important, than being fun. I've found that, most, if not all whores, in Arm, are more focused on being a 10, showing they're a 10, than being an engaging character, that I would want to spend my playing time on.

Because that, is what you want. For people to spend their PLAY time, on your PC. Everyone is rich, but you will not see a 'sid of it, if they don't want to spend their time, with you. If you fail at whore, it's because you're too busy being focused, on the wrong things.

My first PC here, was not nearly as wealthy, as she should have been, because I never really figured out the tricks for making easy, fast cash, like everyone else. That, is no longer a problem I have, but it matters, because I was feeding, watering and paying a grungy, 'rinth whore/thug, when it wasn't really something that was in my PCs best interest. Especially since, we never sexed, because my PC thought she was gross, but cute, in a pitiable, three-footed puppy kind of way.

They were fun, interesting and different from the paint by numbers PCs that inhabits, most of the game, so that was worth the extra few minutes I had to spend, going out, to make the extra I needed, to be able to give them a little bit, too.

You don't need, a pay-me subguild, or special room, or an NPC, you just have to be INTERESTING, ORIGINAL and DIFFERENT from the idle-at-the-bar crowd. If people want to RP with you, they'll use the easiest option to do so, which for a whore, is to pay you for your attention.

Be interesting, be successful. It is not something, the code can do for you.

[ShaLeah]

Whoring can be a guild.  Bard. You're performing.  Period.  You want your pc to have a means you live in lean times? Work that shit into your background.

I'm against coded rewards that give pcs money.

Even the filthiest rinthi breed whore is gonna be able to get clients. Even if it's 50 sid a day. You don't need code for this.

Don't make me create a really disgusting whore and prove you all wrong. Seriously,  don't.

[Hauwke]

Whoring can be a guild.  Bard. You're performing.  Period.  You want your pc to hadn't a means you live in lean times? Work that shit into your background.

I'm against coded rewards that give pcs money.

Even the filthiest rinthi breed whore is gonna be able to get clients. Even if it's 50 sid a day. You don't need code for this.

Don't make me create a really disgusting whore and prove you all wrong. Seriously,  don't.

You should! Bonus points for snaggleteeth!

[ShaLeah]

Whoring can be a guild.  Bard. You're performing.  Period.  You want your pc to hadn't a means you live in lean times? Work that shit into your background.

I'm against coded rewards that give pcs money.

Even the filthiest rinthi breed whore is gonna be able to get clients. Even if it's 50 sid a day. You don't need code for this.

Don't make me create a really disgusting whore and prove you all wrong. Seriously,  don't.

You should! Bonus points for snaggleteeth!

I'll make the bitch old and toothless ftw.

[Miggy]

Subguild: Consort. Listen, sneak, brew, cooking. Let the player decide the rest.

[Grapes]

I happen to agree with Vex. As a whore you aren't just selling sex, you're selling an experience. It requires creativity to get paid, I have no issues with this. Just like a role like, say, a Kadian Merchant, everything you sell have little to no coded value and are just props, you don't get sales by waiting for someone to ask (though you will, and expect to be swamped), but you sell an experience, same with any sales position really. IRL if you work at wal-mart, in the furniture department, you know your whole purpose in life is to sell people garbage. People are not fools, and they understand this too, and appreciate it when you show you appreciate their mental aptitude by saying, "Yes, this TV stand is a fucking piece of shit, but the box it comes in has magical powers to grant you riches." "Really?" "No, not really, but at least it'll hold up your TV until you spill something on it."

Or, glass shelves, jesus christ, "I think this would go great in my living room." "Really? Let me ask you something, do you have kids?" "Yeah, why?" "Because that horrible abomination, if I were a kid, would look like a ladder, could you imagine what would happen if it were to topple?" "Oh... OH! I didn't, I didn't consider that." "Yeah, well, now you did... it's your living room, choice is up to you, but, I'd personally be terrified by that possibility."

Like anything else, it's not "gimme gimme gimme", it's, "I give you an experience, and you pay me what you think that experience is worth. Let's not beat around the bush and act like we're not playing pretend here."

[Inks]

If you are a pc whore and can't make a living, then it is on you not the game. Beg, flirt, do what you have to do to survive. If your RP is bad then PCs are less likely to want to hire you, even if those pcs are going to fade to black anyway, because you aren't creating fun for those pcs through rp or what have you.

So yeah, you are selling an experience as Vex, Grapes and others said, 100%.

Or you could take a crafting subguild as your pc's hobby when business is slow. Or both!

Also people like you who play flavor roles are awesome, keep up the good work!

[valeria]

I really like the idea of an 'virtual job' subguild, where you just receive a small, semi-random amount of coins on a regular basis.

[satine]

I played a rinth prostitute.

In that time she was bringing in 600-ish sid a day, involved in plots, got people killed, etc.

You really just gotta get out there. If you want to play a flavor character you can not be lazy about it.

Yes. people IC should be pushed to pay for pc whores, but you have to drive the rp.

[Narf]

I really like the idea of an 'virtual job' subguild, where you just receive a small, semi-random amount of coins on a regular basis.

I heard it would squelch rp by eliminating the need to forage and spamcraft though.

[Refugee]

I really like the idea of an 'virtual job' subguild, where you just receive a small, semi-random amount of coins on a regular basis.

I heard it would squelch rp by eliminating the need to forage and spamcraft though.

Brilliantly put.

[Veselka]

I fail to see how that subguild would be more RP Game Breaking than a whore needing to craft or otherwise 'not be a whore' in order to make money. Then the whore can actually spend time RPing being a whore, getting virtual customers, being around and otherwise engaging as a whore PC. Rather than 'I make <item> on the side to make ends meet', as a required part of their story.

[Grapes]

If you've seen the echos of people dying of thirst or starving in the streets, then yes, coin isn't as easy to come by as the player population is accustomed to. With a moderate amount of wisdom, a character would realize that they'll need to supplement the slow times, and maybe accept methods of payment that aren't coin. If you roll up ranger/gladiator and expect to be able to have your cake and eat it too, I'm unsure what to say to that, other than, it seems like you didn't do a lot of planning prior to submitting your character. I don't know, I never experienced any problems with it, and never had to go grebbing or crafting to make ends meet, but ymmv.''

You see, on the one hand, there's a group of people who already believe coins are too easy to make and ruin their immersion of trying to RP a poor PC. On the other hand, you have this. I don't particularly side with one group or the other, I will say that numerous "easy" jobs have been made harder, so it seems to me the wind is blowing a certain way. Most of the money-making sillyness can be figured out ICly by consulting characters who have a stake in your character. If no one has a stake in your character, an alternate approach may be worth considering. Playing a whore is completely viable, and if you do a good job you might have people dragging in materials and such as compensation for sexy-times which you can turn into coins, if you have crafting skills, because they're broke from spending all their coin on your fees.

I know, my experience isn't universal, and in fact, was quite unthinkable on the face of it, that last part is the important part. If you want to get paid for attendance, as others have pointed out, there are clans which will fulfil this need. If you don't want to play in a clan, then you just picked hard-mode, and hard-mode is there for people who want to give it a shot, not for people who want easy mode, which, if you ask me, is how it should be. Would I like to see more independant whores? Yes, definitely. I don't want the role watered down by free money, however.

[sleepyhead]

I like the idea in theory of a subguild that represents a job and periodically gives you coins. There are a lot of jobs I've wanted to RP as (server at a tavern, sweeper, stablehand) that weren't really possible because I would have no way to actually get paid/survive doing them.

I do have to wonder, though. What happens if you pick this sub but end up getting a different job, or go off to live in the desert, or injure yourself so that you can no longer realistically perform the job, or any number of things? It wouldn't make much sense if you continued to receive the money anyway.

[Grapes]

I like the idea in theory of a subguild that represents a job and periodically gives you coins. There are a lot of jobs I've wanted to RP as (server at a tavern, sweeper, stablehand) that weren't really possible because I would have no way to actually get paid/survive doing them.

I do have to wonder, though. What happens if you pick this sub but end up getting a different job, or go off to live in the desert, or injure yourself so that you can no longer realistically perform the job, or any number of things? It wouldn't make much sense if you continued to receive the money anyway.

Except you CAN be a server in the Gaj. You gather drinks for tables of people and they pay you tips for not having to walk to the bar and shout over crowds of other people wanting drinks. New character concept? Maybe. Do people need to pay you to do this? No, but nobody really needs to pay anyone for anything. If you clean the stables, sell the poop. There's some coins right there (and from a coded job, no less). Stablehand? Wish up to have a conversation with the current stablehand to be taken on as an apprentice, expect to be bored until afternoon and dawn. Engage people who enter the stables, ask if you can "get that for them", emote using a pick to clean sand out of beetle joints and feeding their mounts special, mount-appropriate treats, and explain, "I work for tips, you know? Your bug will push harder and further because of premium services.", doesn't mean it's true codedly, but how would they ICly know that?

[sleepyhead]

Okay I get you, and maybe I've just been uncreative, but my individual examples weren't really the point. The point was to ask the people who do support a coin-giving subguild for people with flavor jobs how they'd suggest handling situations in which a character is no longer in a position to receive their stipend.

[Narf]

Okay I get you, and maybe I've just been uncreative, but my individual examples weren't really the point. The point was to ask the people who do support a coin-giving subguild for people with flavor jobs how they'd suggest handling situations in which a character is no longer in a position to receive their stipend.

My original suggestion was to eliminate hunger and thirst for those with the subguild while they were in the city. This might be easier to rp around.

From a gamist perspective though, if you've given up all of your subguild skills just to not have to worry about subsistence, I think you deserve to keep that.

[Grapes]

Okay I get you, and maybe I've just been uncreative, but my individual examples weren't really the point. The point was to ask the people who do support a coin-giving subguild for people with flavor jobs how they'd suggest handling situations in which a character is no longer in a position to receive their stipend.

My original suggestion was to eliminate hunger and thirst for those with the subguild while they were in the city. This might be easier to rp around.

From a gamist perspective though, if you've given up all of your subguild skills just to not have to worry about subsistence, I think you deserve to keep that.

On further reflection, what if city guilds had a "beg" function similar to forage, with the downside you might get kicked in the face on a crit-fail?

[valeria]

I do have to wonder, though. What happens if you pick this sub but end up getting a different job, or go off to live in the desert, or injure yourself so that you can no longer realistically perform the job, or any number of things? It wouldn't make much sense if you continued to receive the money anyway.

Maybe instead of loading the coins into your inventory or bank account, you had to access a pay PC (something along the lines of how you access the scargiver, in a semi-OOC area) and had to request your coins.  That way, if you did any of these things, you'd simply just not use your subguild.

Or you could just be expected to not.  You'd only choose not to have any other subguild for a flavor character, it could be explicitly stated that if you're choosing it, you're expected to RP doing your virtual job.  It wouldn't be the only guild-based RP restriction that exists.

[John]

Ways to play a whore:
* Get loans
* Gamble
* Deal spice to clients
* Spy
* Give "freebies" to law enforcement to look the other way on anything illicit you do (such as deal drugs)
* Partner with a burglar and scope places out for a cut
* Accept non-monetary payment (I know I pay dounle or even triple if I don't pay in coin).
* Get sponsored by Dale

More code isn't necessary.

[Is Friday]

Ways to play a whore:
* Get loans
* Gamble
* Deal spice to clients
* Spy
* Give "freebies" to law enforcement to look the other way on anything illicit you do (such as deal drugs)
* Partner with a burglar and scope places out for a cut
* Accept non-monetary payment (I know I pay dounle or even triple if I don't pay in coin).
* Get sponsored by Dale

More code isn't necessary.

Dale is a pimp with a heart of gold.

[John]

And if Dale won't say yes, check with House Fale

[valeria]

I also don't think more code is necessary, but it would be nice.  Not just for whores, but other flavor roles.  Tavern tenders, beggars, street sweepers, and the like.

A lot of the things you suggest are 'So you want to play a whore, have you thought about playing a criminal instead?'  Which works for those whores who also want to play criminals, but not so much for people who want to have whore be their main profession.

[Synthesis]

The fundamental problem is that there are grind-sinks and grind-faucets, but the available automated grind-faucets are suitable only to certain roles.

We've already more-or-less accepted the existence of the sink-and-faucet paradigm.  Adding new faucets for different sorts of roles is a perfectly acceptable fix in a game where sink-and-faucet and roleplay-required coexist.