Player-created clans aka Minor Merchant Houses (MMH): Reflections

[Brokkr]

Speculative. I would quantify 'enough' participation as being 1-3 Player Clans made per RL year, and 1-2 of those clans being destroyed/decimated/absorbed per RL year.

We are good for this year then!

[Lizzie]

I would agree there are more reasons than the system not being fun that it's not wildly successful.

You're doing it again. I don't think it should be "wildly" successful, for the reason I already stated. I'll restate differently:

Everyone wants a "special something" in their gaming experience. Everyone wants a blue widget, because it's an interesting, unique, different, special thing that most people don't have. It's a novelty.

But once everyone has one, everyone stops wanting one. Because it's no longer interesting, unique, different, or special. It certainly ceases to be a novelty.

Player-created "official" clans are a lot of WORK. Just ask anyone who has EVER created one, in Armageddon. You have to be able to create the concept, draw enough interest to have employees, maintain that interest without drawing negative attention from potential competition and/or the "authorities" (templars, nobles, etc), and continue to maintain it long enough that people take your clan seriously. THEN - you can ask for something stable to house it. And THEN - you have to maintain THAT.

This was true even before they created the written docs about player clans. The only thing that's changed, really, is that the rules are clarified and made such that everyone is expected to follow the same rules as everyone else. Previously, some didn't have to follow so strictly, some had even stricter criteria. Now everyone is on the same page. Everyone has the same opportunity to do this.

It was never easy. It still isn't easy. But now, it's not easy, officially whereas previously it was not easy, unofficially.

It's not "wildly" successful. That's good. If it were, that'd mean the existing clans were empty because all the players had their own clans. The player clan system is supposed to be an added perk, not the basis of the entire system. Be glad it's not "wildly" successful.

[Dresan]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system, just the overall IC game environment doesn't encourage or make it plausible. You should totally be able to open up a shop, and sell your own custom designs with their own unique boosts and flavor without pissing anyone off. However, the player mindset that a GMH clan doesn't need to go out of their way to murder a player who is trying to start a shop to sell their own unique brand of knives just isn't there.

Its still easier and much more enjoyable to sell directly to players, and run your small clan/crews from your apartment. If the staff wanted to see more mini clans pop up over night, they should just make some apartments to allow 3-4 people to rent them.

[Riev]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system, just the overall IC game environment doesn't encourage or make it plausible. You should totally be able to open up a shop, and sell your own custom designs with their own unique boosts and flavor without pissing anyone off. However, the player mindset that a GMH clan doesn't need to go out of their way to murder a player who is trying to start a shop to sell their own unique brand of knives just isn't there.

Its still easier and much more enjoyable to sell directly to players, and run your small clan/crews from your apartment. If the staff wanted to see more mini clans pop up over night, they should just make some apartments to allow 3-4 people to rent them.

While I agree the game environment doesn't really encourage or foster the idea of a MMH in the first place, I DO think that a GMH would watch an up-and-comer very closely. If they're GOOD, hire them. If they refuse? Cut their supply line. If they continue, eradicate them. If they're actually not very good and not infringing on your business? Make them pay you to continue operating and you make out on the dea.

[Dresan]

Stuff

While I agree the game environment doesn't really encourage or foster the idea of a MMH in the first place, I DO think that a GMH would watch an up-and-comer very closely. If they're GOOD, hire them. If they refuse? Cut their supply line. If they continue, eradicate them. If they're actually not very good and not infringing on your business? Make them pay you to continue operating and you make out on the dea.

The overall idea of MMH just doesn't work in this game environment, the concept behind the system is too big.  The problem i find is that GMH don't act big enough as their background suggests, and indy businesses aren't treated as small enough.

GMH involves thousands of hunters, crafters, merchants plus influential family members, where an indy crew/small business really involves 3-7 people and maybe one or two NPC some day. Its ridiculous pitting a sponsored player against an indy with no real backing, just because they want to sell a couple custom cloths/armors/etc.

It would be great to see GMH's cutting a deal with these small businesses but this mentality is definitely not there in this community. In the past, I had an indy merchant wanting to do the same with a GMH, giving them a cut of his business and even buying from them at cost and selling out in the far wastes. It was a resounding NO and he was even forbidden to purchase goods from the store to resell. Can't outsource the fun of their clanned merchants...

That said, on the other side of the coin, one crafter and a couple of hunters, should not be trying to create PC cure/resource monopolies as others have tried to do in the past. This is silly when you consider NPCs and VNPCs running their own shops. Not that there shouldn't be some "friendly"(deadly) competition for clients and contracts between PC indy merchant, but people should be taking account the scope of these actions within the world.       

Again its less about the system and more with the concept within the current environment.

[Lizzie]

I think the reason you're saying that Dresan, is because you are seeing the GMHs as smaller than they really are.

The PC Merchant and his crew have a problem with Jimbob Indy. Why? Because Jimbob is interfering with Merchant and his crew. Merchant represents the House, yes- but Merchant is not the WHOLE house. Merchant is in charge of THIS CREW. And This Crew relies on THESE customers, and THIS customer base of PCs, for its contribution to the House, which is mostly virtual. The virtual crews rely on their virtual customers and virtual customer base of VNPCs, and even some NPCs. But the PC-run and PC-played crew, relies on the PC-based customers.

Jimbob Indy isn't a threat to the HOuse. But he is a threat to one particular crew of the House. Since that crew exists to make the House money, it stands to reason that the House might be a little annoyed if Jimbob got big enough to break up that crew. On the other hand, the House also relies on its Merchant to ensure that the Crew is strong enough to withstand some outside competition - as long as it doesnt' get too big.

[Dresan]

I'm sure there are plenty of people that can come up with reasons to justify the way IC clans behave. I still don't agree with those point of views.

Ultimately for me, its always been an OOC reason, a rather lame one at that. Clans can have a lot of down time, and can be boring.  There isn't always something more grand going on in the background. You don't want to make the clan even more boring by outsourcing the work to someone else outside the clan if you don't need to.  Additionally, screwing around with indies gives your people something to do.

Again my point, it isn't the system, its just that we don't currently have the type of environment that encourages many businesses