Broken Economics and NPC Vendors

[Riev]

Noble coin goes farther than grebber coin anyway. A grebber can have 5000 coins sitting around doing nothing, and all they can do is invest in new arms/armor or furniture. In order to do ANYTHING with it, they need Nobility or Templarate backing. And how they're sitting on 5000 coins without being taxed to death by the Templarate is another issue entirely.


Basically, Nobles SHOULD have enough coin to throw more-than-necessary at commoners to get jobs done, but they aren't meant to just be huge banks. When a Noble spends 5000 coins on something, it MEANS something. They might be building, purchasing something for the estate, smoking enough tho to see you all in Drov. A grebber that spends 5000 coins on something probably wanted the Byn to have a fun RPT.

[Molten Heart]

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[nessalin]

City of Bones, by Martha Wells (First Chapter Free) has a Dark Sun-esque setting.  In it there are two kinds of currency.  One is for the upper class, the other the lower class.  When there's water rationing going on only those with upper class currency can buy water, and it is illegal for anyone but the upper class to have that kind of money.  The lower class trades in currency that is backed by tradesman labor the upper class currency is backed in volume of water (at least that's how I remember it).

Having two kinds of currency, and setting up shops so they only accept one type or the other, might encourage working for nobles.  Provided it was legal for non-nobles to use noble currency, but nobles were the only source of getting it.

The fancy shops, good apartments, and so on won't take your commoner coin - no matter how much of it you've got.

[Riev]

An interesting thought to assist with the "your coin doesn't matter as much as their coin" situation. However, we supposedly already have obsidian in game that is "backed by water" and that kind of goes out the window when you consider the Playerbase.

I'm interested in the idea of two currencies, if the Noble/Templarate currency really DID have more power and weight. Like Ness mentions, working for Lady Borsail might mean she gives you a stipend of 300 Noble Currency, which can pay for a more secure apartment that comes with furniture and ovens and such. Or, it could be used for buying pure-silk items, or paying off the Templarate, or what ever staff decides to put in so nobles can Apply-to-Win.

Then commoners can keep their obsidian coins, to trade with Salarr and Kadius and whatnot. Borsails 300 NCs won't do you any good if you're in Luir's or Red Storm anyway.

[Molten Heart]

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[Delirium]

I like the idea, though there would be plenty to consider.

Such as: how would bribes (from the lower class to the upper class) work?

[nessalin]

I like the idea, though there would be plenty to consider.

Such as: how would bribes (from the lower class to the upper class) work?

Goods and services that Nobles cannot acquire or perform, themselves.  Or bribe them with noble currency acquired from other nobles.

Booze and drugs for their parties.  Items from other places in the Known that, as nobles, they can't go.  Items they cannot make on their own, but a artisan can.

[chrisdcoulombe]

When festivals are held commoners can use their coin to purchase things they wouldn't normally be able to get, we can call the festivals 'The Fair', which is the root of the word in real life equivalent or the meaning behind it.

[ghanima]

As a result you hear outrageous statements that should never exist in a harsh desert world, like "I'm not looking for work right now, I just want to take it easy for a while" or "I'm going to take some time off and do some traveling".

I don't think I've ever heard someone say this sort of thing, unless they were providing a reason why they were going to be away for awhile.

That's fine, I have. We all have different experiences in this game. The above is one of mine. There are probably things you experience as a repeat trend that I've never seen once. Doesn't mean they're not happening.

There's a lot of it that doesn't make sense and is unfair to the player. I'm not trying to suggest it should stay that way but the flip side is that some of the nonsensical aspects of NPC merchants are unfair in favor of the player and if you know what you're doing you can become extremely wealthy. As a result you hear outrageous statements that should never exist in a harsh desert world, like "I'm not looking for work right now, I just want to take it easy for a while" or "I'm going to take some time off and do some traveling".

The alternative to what you see as the problem would be players being forced into clans they don't want to play in (or any clan when they don't want to deal with the restrictions/drama that comes with clanned PCs). I've stored two characters because leader PCs wouldn't take hints that I didn't want my character in a clan despite it being in his best interest as far as the virtual world is concerned.  This is first and foremost a game and platform for writing for the intent of people enjoying creating stories.  Sometimes the story you want to create is not the status quo.

I'm not pointing the finger or assigning blame, I'm discussing cause and effect. I'm sure I've done the above with past characters myself too. No one's forcing you to join a clan if you don't want but at the same time it helps to reinforce the Zalanthan environment when our rich characters do not flaunt their wealth or snub their noses at job offers that most commoners would willfully chop one of their fingers off just to have. It may be too early to mention the character name in question but there was this one guy who was working his way toward MMH status and for no other reason than he was clearly a vet, I assumed he knew how to milk the code for all its worth. But you'd never guess that IC when he bemoaned the high cost of water in the city (I bet he got his water free in the desert) and how import taxes are weighing his business down etc (do these things even exist IC?). These were probably all virtual fees he was talking about but it brilliantly helped portray a struggling merchant type in a harsh environment. And all the while he could have had a bank account that said something outrageous like 125,000 coins but it didn't matter.

[Riev]

Could have. Might have. Probably. I assumed.


Even if the person had this ridiculous amount of coin in their Nenyuk account, what does it matter? Creating a MMH is not an easy process, and you don't just get one because you have 100,000 coins to give someone. Even in these instances, there is more to be had by gaining Templarate favor or Noble support through the donation of your coins and services than the coins will get you themselves.

I once wanted to be a Tuluki gladiator, before we had all this Free Gladiator and PCs can fight in the arenas mentality. I had to get training, which after the Byn and Salarr meant I needed someone in Tuluk willing to sponsor my training. AND I needed nobility to back up my cause and take me on as their own gladiator in the first place. It wouldn't matter if I threw a bunch of coins at someone, as much as if a single Senior Noble said "Sure let him try"

[ghanima]

Even if the person had this ridiculous amount of coin in their Nenyuk account, what does it matter? Creating a MMH is not an easy process, and you don't just get one because you have 100,000 coins to give someone. Even in these instances, there is more to be had by gaining Templarate favor or Noble support through the donation of your coins and services than the coins will get you themselves.

That's not really what I was getting at. Forget he was chasing MMH status or how much he had in his account. I'm saying the guy probably had coded fortunes but still found a way to RP the struggle that would surely exist for anyone. Well done, Mr. Indie!

There are clunky aspects of the code which make little sense, such as tanned hides being worth less than raw ones, or whatever. But a other aspects of the same code allow you to reap more than you lose. Commoners can achieve vast wealth such that working solo is more prosperous than being in a clan, however a good RPer will still find ways to portray the struggle that the code does not impose. That's really all I'm saying here.

[FantasyWriter]

If you feel you have too many coins, bury them in the desret to hide them then "Forget" when you go back to look.
IF you feel another character has too many coins, steal, mug, or con them away from them.
If you fell another cahracter has too many coins but you can't be bothered to put your effort where your mouth is, report their vast wealth to your nearest templar or noble, and perhaps even offer a little black clinking motivation to demonstrate how much you would like to see the cocky asshole relieved of their 'sid.

In otherwords, be the change.  I think we should have a nenyuki PC, if for no other reason than to be able to report the rich to their local templar for a cut when they are taxed for it.  Alternately, templar's and possibly nobles have enough clout that they could probably talk their local (NPC) clerk into giving them the 411.

[Dresan]

I really like Nessalin's idea more than burying my coins in the desert. 

It is re-enforcing the current in game experience with new currency item.  It also be add another cool layer to the game if it is made illegal for commoners to be caught with the new noble currency.

I've never felt coin bribes work that well in this game anyways, offering information and/or services is what works best.     

[nessalin]

New currency?

http://boingboing.net/2017/07/13/hatton-gardens-with-millennial.html

[evilcabbage]

nessalin.

follow your dream.

make the new currency.

noble currency could be something that is used to buy either more luxury items (like horror armor and silk) while commoner currency is used to purchase -other- things (like regular types of shell, maybe water, food, things like that).

or as bribes.

the next question is, if you value noble currency, what does it value at? let's say a commoner gets his hands on noble currency, and another commoner wants to buy that off him.

would you say ten commoner currency for every one noble currency? would it even be feasible? then you have to judge the value of having one bit of noble currency, versus ten of your own, or one hundred or whatever.

now you have to decide - do you want that noble currency, to pay a templar off to whack your friend? or do you want 100 common currency to purchase food and water to survive for the next day?

[Jihelu]

I'm not a fan of two different types of currency, especially within the same city state.

[Veselka]

How about crypto currency?

[Malken]

How about crypto currency?

You make money while you're way'ing someone?

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Encapsulate your knowledge/memories and exchange them over the Way as a form of psychic currency.

[evilcabbage]

I'm not a fan of two different types of currency, especially within the same city state.

don't think of it like that, then.

one's more like "tokens" you exchange for services from people like templars.

the other's money.

[racurtne]

Encapsulate your knowledge/memories and exchange them over the Way as a form of psychic currency.

Already being done every time anyone pays for information. 

[Dar]

That code exists already, no? The second currency part.

I believe the Legionnaires use a different currency to buy some of their clan gear?

[Riev]

That code exists already, no? The second currency part.

I believe the Legionnaires use a different currency to buy some of their clan gear?

There does exist a "chit" system, with different colored cloths who have currency numbers attached. It wasn't fully fleshed out, but you could get like a "sunburst" chit worth 50 whatevers, and a new shield would be worth 40 chits.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Why does every city have the same currency?  Its the Allanaki obsidian coin.  I think it would make festivals (fairs) More viable if there were different currencies normally and then at the fair everyones coin is worth the same.   I don't like the idea of it being illegal for some to have a certain currency though, just make it harder to come by. 

[evilcabbage]

maybe not illegal, but think of it like this:

you can ask a noble to pay you in normal coins, or you can ask him for a 'voucher' of some sort, that you could present to a templar - of course, the templar could refuse, but this 'voucher' item would have maybe some significant worth to a templar, such that they would be remiss to refuse an offer of such payment.