Plot raffle.

[RogueGunslinger]

This is exciting.

[Riev]

Byn Sergeants will win every time. They involve everyone! (Yes, I understand its actually other clans that actually involve the Byn, but the idea of Byn "always running the plots" makes me giggle.)

[Akaramu]

My first thought was... 'don't players already do this without a raffle'? 

[Riev]

My first thought was... 'don't players already do this without a raffle'? 

I think its probably to both generate ideas staff side, and to have a reason to have a few smaller rail-road plots. Because you can't be angry if YOU submitted the plot and it only had one of two outcomes.

[Akaramu]

I think its probably to both generate ideas staff side, and to have a reason to have a few smaller rail-road plots. Because you can't be angry if YOU submitted the plot and it only had one of two outcomes.

OOOOH I totally misunderstood! Thanks for clearing this up. I thought the raffle was for actual plots that are being run ingame. Now I feel dumb. 

[Reiloth]

Me too. Is this for actual plots or plot ideas?

[Riev]

It may be for other reasons, its just that...

I mean. Yes. SOME players already do this. But I consider myself an average player, and I CERTAINLY don't think of some personal quirk, goal, or affectation for my characters that would involve up to 5 other PCs and have on-going purpose. I just don't, and if I do, I just hire the Byn to do the most of it.

I think this is to have more ideas for plots going, have a carrot for players that do this, more than a system of karma.

I also think its for ACTUAL plots. As in, you have an idea for a plot you're going to chase, in game, and you're just informing staff of how you're going to involve other players in it. Acquire an aurochs, find a rare emerald, etc etc. Things Staff can hook into, or not, but its an incentive. I think/

[Reiloth]

I'm confused (genuinely). Shouldn't the reward of playing the game and plotting be the plots and the game being enhanced, not a perceived reward for a future PC?

I only see this encouraging questionable RP and over extension in order to get more raffle tickets. It creates a Meta seemed in my mind that I should be plotting with the intention of reward after death. Almost like Grace?

Are we that starved for plots? It certainly doesn't appear that way from my angle but that's a limited point of view.

[Riev]

I DO wonder if this is just a push for the new-er players who don't know to do this, or don't see any benefit it... or if its because staff are lacking in plot ideas that don't massively affect the landscape.

Its not a criticism, its just wondering what is behind this new push for player plotlines, after the 1st one kind of fizzled and staff were allowed to run their own, and now that seems to have fizzled?

Are we starved for plots? Or are all the plots being run by the same few people?

[FamousAmos]

Way ahead of ya. 

[Delirium]

I'm really confused by this and I kind of already do run plots and some of them are deliberate and some are off the cuff... so... is the difference that we should be sending them in through reports?

I guess I'll just keep doing what I've been doing?

I really want to like this but I do share Reiloth's trepidation here. I will try and reserve judgement.

[bardlyone]

I tend to do a lot of smallish plots, too, and involving multiple people, but just glancing at (or even watching for long periods) my pc at a good bit of the times, you wouldn't necessarily know it, and I don't tend to involve them in reports, because a lot of it is small and fluid stuff, like <acquire X for Y> or <get X from Y> or <convince X of thing>. Though, those tend to be (in the fashion of a dwarven focus) smaller, stepping stone plots toward larger and longer running ones. Almost none of them involve RPTs though.

[nauta]

I'm confused (genuinely). Shouldn't the reward of playing the game and plotting be the plots and the game being enhanced, not a perceived reward for a future PC?

I only see this encouraging questionable RP and over extension in order to get more raffle tickets. It creates a Meta seemed in my mind that I should be plotting with the intention of reward after death. Almost like Grace?

Are we that starved for plots? It certainly doesn't appear that way from my angle but that's a limited point of view.

I like the idea, and if I can try to make a guess at the 'future reward' idea: I think this might encourage more risk with your current PC, knowing that in the afterlife you will receive some benefit for putting yourself in (IC appropriate) conflict situations that might result in the death of your PC.

That said, the balance we'd want to strike is to make sure that we aren't disregarding the documentation in pursuit of such reward.  Soh, for instance, shouldn't stop being Soh in order to band together with Outsiders on some plot.  However, the Soh (not to pick on Soh, it's just an obvious example of a group which are insular by documentation) also should be encouraged to look for more ways to interact with / include Outsiders in their plots.

[Akaramu]

I'm confused (genuinely). Shouldn't the reward of playing the game and plotting be the plots and the game being enhanced, not a perceived reward for a future PC?

I only see this encouraging questionable RP and over extension in order to get more raffle tickets. It creates a Meta seemed in my mind that I should be plotting with the intention of reward after death. Almost like Grace?

Are we that starved for plots? It certainly doesn't appear that way from my angle but that's a limited point of view.

My thoughts exactly.

An alternative way of having more player run plots would be to allow for more stuff to happen if it doesn't disrupt the game balance. I had (somewhat recently) a plot idea that would eventually (if it was allowed to develop) involve the Byn, several trips to locations outside Allanak, and involve a bunch of PCs / clans. Staff said 'no' and that was the end of it. Maybe some transparence on what is and what isn't possible would help?

We just got these awesome new guidelines for mastercraft submissions. Would be great if we could get something similar for plots.

[Malken]

What's confusing?

You come up with an idea for a plot, send the details to Staff and tell them what you're hoping to achieve with it and if you'd like for Staff to have a participation in it (with NPC or atmospheric animations, etc...)

If you win the raffle you get a small non-game changing reward to be used with a future characters.

To break it down more clearly:
1) Decide upon a plot pertinent to your character's story.
2) Write a simple request to us informing us of said plot in the aforementioned format. If you're a leader, include it in your weekly report. If you're not a leader/unsponsored, send it in as a character report.
3) Plot.
4) Be entered with 1 to 3 entries, dependent upon the particulars listed above.
5) Win! (Possibly.)

What are you guys complaining about now?? 

[bardlyone]

I'm confused (genuinely). Shouldn't the reward of playing the game and plotting be the plots and the game being enhanced, not a perceived reward for a future PC?

I only see this encouraging questionable RP and over extension in order to get more raffle tickets. It creates a Meta seemed in my mind that I should be plotting with the intention of reward after death. Almost like Grace?

Are we that starved for plots? It certainly doesn't appear that way from my angle but that's a limited point of view.

My thoughts exactly.

An alternative way of having more player run plots would be to allow for more stuff to happen if it doesn't disrupt the game balance. I had (somewhat recently) a plot idea that would eventually (if it was allowed to develop) involve the Byn, several trips to locations outside Allanak, and involve a bunch of PCs / clans. Staff said 'no' and that was the end of it. Maybe some transparence on what is and what isn't possible would help?

This, in a nutshell, is why I don't really put in reports with plots in them, and tend to go for plots that don't require anything of staff, and.. really NEVER have, even before 2013 when I burned all their good will toward me to crap. There are a LOT of people with a LOT of plot ideas, and it seemed like most of them got shut down before they ever had the chance to go anywhere, so the natural response is to stop pursuing things that get shot down from every angle, and when you do pursue plots, for it to be really small ones that don't involve any sort of (staff required) help or changes in the game world.

I'm going to try for something in the face of the post, but... I feel like even if I won the die roll would be fudged to ensure it went to someone who was more liked. Whoever gets it though, it seems like it'll be neat, so... go for it. I have a snowball's chance in hell, and I'm going to go for it.

[Malken]

The biggest reward someone can get is a skill bump if they are lucky. Some of you already have enough karma to get 3-4 skill bumps just by asking for them. I don't really see anything disastrous happening with that idea and I think it's an excellent way to drive more players to attempt plots of their own.

[Delirium]

What's confusing?

You come up with an idea for a plot, send the details to Staff and tell them what you're hoping to achieve with it and if you'd like for Staff to have a participation in it (with NPC or atmospheric animations, etc...)

If you win the raffle you get a small non-game changing reward to be used with a future characters.

To break it down more clearly:
1) Decide upon a plot pertinent to your character's story.
2) Write a simple request to us informing us of said plot in the aforementioned format. If you're a leader, include it in your weekly report. If you're not a leader/unsponsored, send it in as a character report.
3) Plot.
4) Be entered with 1 to 3 entries, dependent upon the particulars listed above.
5) Win! (Possibly.)

What are you guys complaining about now?? 

I'm not complaining, I'm confused. And well, yeah, it does seem like it's adding a bit more paperwork to something I already do ... like, a lot... so.... I guess I'm being old and crabby.

[Akaramu]

I wonder if I should resubmit a more elaborate and awesome 2.0 version of the plot idea that was declined. I guess maybe I was too vague on how it would involve other people and trigger fun stuff on the sidelines.

[Feco]

I'm generally excited about this.

I do have a couple concerns, though.

(1) Should I expect staff to only intervene/participate in plots if they're chosen in a raffle?  I already pursue a lot plots which, at some point, might require or beg staff participation (and almost every one of these things involves players other than myself).  Will these only be pursued if I win the raffle?  Will things go as usual plus the raffle?  I never expect staff to get interested in my plots and help me pursue them, but I always suspect they would act if they needed to, or if they thought it was a really great thing for the game.

(2) I'm worried about people putting off IC goals, waiting until they "win" the raffle, so that they're goals can be pursued to the "fullest."  I wouldn't do this, but I worry about it.  I also worry about unconsciously doing it, I guess.

I don't expect many problems -- I think this is generally a cool idea, and I'm really excited about it -- but these two things are on my mind.

[Malken]

I'm not complaining, I'm confused. And well, yeah, it does seem like it's adding a bit more paperwork to something I already do ... like, a lot... so.... I guess I'm being old and crabby.

But confused about what? You don't have to send any of it to Staff if you don't want to participate in that raffle thingie... I think the biggest change is that Staff might help you achieve something concrete if you send them your plot idea and the more plots you generate for the game the higher your chance of winning a little prize for your effort.

It sounds like more paperwork for them, not so much the players, but if they are now asking to be directly involved in your plots I think that's a pretty good change.

[Malken]

I'm generally excited about this.

I do have a couple concerns, though.

(1) Should I expect staff to only intervene/participate in plots if they're chosen in a raffle?  I already pursue a lot plots which, at some point, might require or beg staff participation (and almost every one of these things involves players other than myself).  Will these only be pursued if I win the raffle?  Will things go as usual plus the raffle?  I never expect staff to get interested in my plots and help me pursue them, but I always suspect they would act if they needed to, or if they thought it was a really great thing for the game.

(2) I'm worried about people putting off IC goals, waiting until they "win" the raffle, so that they goals can be pursued to the "fullest."

I don't expect many problems -- I think this is generally a cool idea, and I'm really excited about it -- but these two things are on my mind.

You should re-read the Staff post, nowhere does it say that you get into the raffle only if your plots are chosen by Staff and that your plots are acted upon only if you win the raffle.

Your #2 question doesn't make any sense... That's not how it's going to work out at all.

[Raptor_Dan]

I think, first, I should say I don't think that if you do not win the raffle, your plots are denied. No one said this was the case, but it could be unclear, so I thought I'd put that out there.

Second, there are no staff run plots anymore, and I've heard other players say that they feel landscape/world changing plots are out of reach now. I think this is staff's way of encouraging you to reach again. The rewards are there as an incentive not just to plot, but to dare to send in plot ideas that might receive a no, imho, and as the added bonus of extra incentive for newbies who've never really attempted to do Big plots.

I for one, rarely attempt plots that include more than three people. Why? I have no idea. Fear? Lack of imagination? The raptor that lives in my nightstand tells me I'm worthless everyday? Probably, but this makes me want to brainstorm something up now, just for the hell of it.

And also because I want a red right hand on my next char.

[BadSkeelz]

Hrmmm. Not sure what to make of this. At best it's just a codification of what we should be doing anyway before doing something "plot worthy" (i.e. inform staff via request if we're planning something that might draw a reaction from the gameworld/accidentally kill off a clan, etc.) with a bit of a carrot to finally go with the Staff approval stick.

I'll know whether it's working when I see and hear of more things happening in game, or if it just leads to a bunch of mutants in a couple of months.

[Reiloth]

Why are you under the impression there are no Staff plots anymore?