The OOC game is driving me away.

[Talkofthetown]

I have played this game for over ten years, and for about half that time I have played characters that I know, for a fact, have been talked about in OOC circles in a way that would be considered harmful and against the game rules. These discussions take place mostly in private, but because people know people, word eventually gets around to me in one way or another. A friend who I don't talk to about IC stuff (although everyone says that, don't they?) gives me a heads-up, or links me to a recent log with my character in it on pastebin, or I find posts about my characters on the jcarter board, their discord chat, or BadSkeelz's Teamspeak server, among other places. On two occasions I was alerted of plans to kill two of my characters for purely OOC reasons.

I'm not sure how someone following the game's rules can play a collaborative storytelling game alongside people who collude out-of-game to come out on top and win the game. I honestly don't know what to do about it anymore. I could report it, but the web of players obfuscates the source of the OOC information. I could ignore it, but at this point the curtains have been lifted and I know just how deep the rabbit hole goes. I play a game with people who are unfair and who know that there is no way for them to be punished by staff, because staff doling out punishments for OOC abuse is the ultimate game of whack-a-mole. And honestly, if staff banned every OOC player our unique logins would probably be cut in half if not more.

My characters try to involve other characters and run plots, whether they are minions or leaders. Is it out of jealousy targeted at what is perceived as success? Would the attention of the OOC players move to someone else if I played a character that did nothing?

You could say that these players are a minority. To that, I say: Armageddon had 213 unique logins from January 9 to January 15. armageddonmud.boards.net has 549 members. Their discord chat has 61 members. If that many people are willing to discuss IC information in public, how many do you think do it in private? The ultimate joke is that many of the people who have condemned the jcarter groups here in the past are people who break the rules in private anyway.

Tell me why I should stay and try to play a collaborative game with people who are not interested at all in collaboration. Tell me why I shouldn't just find another RPI to dedicate my time and roleplaying skills to. Tell me why I shouldn't just give up RPIs altogether and play a game that is more fair instead during my free time. If no one has any good reasons then I'll just go, as I've heard loud and clear that the playerbase doesn't want me around. I am not pointing the finger at anyone. I am not flaming or trolling. I am just pointing out the elephant in the room and asking if anyone here even cares about it anymore.

Posted anonymously for obvious reasons.

[Fathi]

It sucks, man, but it's true. Armageddon is just like any other group of people engaging in an exercise of mutual trust and collaboration: some people won't play ball. Like a group project where some don't pull their weight or a professional scenario where people gossip behind one another's backs, those people are always going to be out there.

Again, it really does suck, but you've nailed down the truth of it: no amount of complaints or good faith is going to fix that.

So in the end it comes down to you, and your choices.

If you choose not to engage on those levels and not to engage with those people, you'll never be made aware of anything fishy involving your characters. Ignorance is truly bliss. Trying to guess at people's motivations for shit like that is only going to lead down a rabbit hole of second-guessing yourself and worrying if every PC you ever meet in the game has ill intentions for OOC reasons. I know it can be tough to shut that part of your brain off, but trust me when I say that it's just not worth it.

When you ask "does anyone care anymore" I think the answer you're going to find is that the people who enjoy the game the most are the people who have trained themselves to care the least. I'm enjoying Armageddon a lot right now. I have a lot of friends that I've made in this game over the decade plus that I've played, but it's been about seven or eight years since I've encountered any of the behaviour you talk about, because I have purposefully removed myself from those aspects of the community.

You play Armageddon for yourself, man. I play for me. I play to enjoy myself and have fun. A bunch of people whining at you behind closed doors doesn't have to impact your life unless you let it. That can be hard to tell, I know, but if you remove yourself from those environments for long enough, you will stop thinking about them altogether.

That's the best answer I can give. Just play for yourself, ignore everybody else, and if you are having fun slowly the rest will cease to matter.

[Miradus]

Well said, Fathi.

I have embraced the Four Noble Truths of Arm.

1. You're going to die
2. Someone or something is going to kill you
3. You will die with shit not completed
4. You will wish you hadn't died, right up to the moment your NEW character is approved

If you're worried about being cyber-stalked in the game, then instead of creating throwaway accounts to post about being cyber-stalked, use those throwaways for roll-calls in house/tribe/clan subforums. Don't talk to people OOC and they most likely won't guess it's you.

There are some perceptive individuals who can tell that character X and character Y are played by the same person, but I think probably the majority can't. I know I can't. If you think that's what's going on, then mix up your style a little bit and see if that doesn't fix it.

Take your frustration into your next character. People plotting to kill you OOC? Maybe play someone who is super-paranoid. I have a short-term enjoyment of my characters. Anything around 10 days played I think is the sweet spot for me. This is a mud I REALLY wish I could play multiple characters on, but I understand the mechanics of why I can't. So I still play some other games to mix it up a little when I get tired of inhabiting the same person's skin.

[lostinspace]

I try and keep contact with other players to a minimum because I know this will immediately start happening if I don't. I've been lucky enough to never have something ruined for my by OOC collusion (that I know of). And at this point I really don't even care if people are talking ooc as long as it doesn't immediately effect my character. We all draw a line in the sand somewhere, sharing mechanics but not plot, 1 year cut-off, etc. Really all you can do is play what you prefer, how you prefer, and hope for the best.

[Talkofthetown]

I don't care if my characters die. I prefer it to storing.

I use alts on clan forums, when I join a clan.

The issue I have is very specific: players who play the OOC game plot against my character OOCly or just try to make me feel bad for playing my character. One time, I was randomly e-mailed by a player telling me to store my character because he felt my character was boring. Random critique has been thrown my way regardless of how much effort I put into hiding who I play. As for the plotting, my issue is I have no IC recourse against it, because I only play the game IC. Whether I ignore the OOC plotting or not, it will end up affecting me.

How is that behavior remotely acceptable?

[Malifaxis]

Hi.

Don't let them get to you.  Saying that is a lot tougher than doing it.  They get to me all the time... I used to live with someone who loved the jcarter crap, and apparently I get talked about over there.  It's fucking bullshit, but hey, it happens.  Those that can not be you, will envy you.  Don't react.  Don't give them anything for it.

By reacting to someone who has the wrong opinion of you, you validate them and give them more to hate you for.  Do not do this.

The people who you talk to who send you snippets and tidbits?  Tell them to cut that shit out.  Just say, "Look, play the game how you want to, I play it for me, and I have more fun when I don't know a goddamn thing."  This is advice I've given to a couple others over the years, and it works.  If they're your friends, they will respect you.  If they aren't your friends, they'll get all super bitchyparanoid about you ratting on them, and they'll back off.  Win-Win.

Look, bud, if you've been here 10 years, you give a shit about the game.  You possibly even give as much as 4.2 shits about the game.  Keep giving a shit.  If you need to walk then take a break... we'll still be here, and shit will be even more awesome when you come back.

Personally, I hope you don't.  You sound like just the kind of player we need right now.  Especially if you start to cut off the rotting portions of meat who like to send you shit you don't want to see.

Hope you stick around.  Please give it some thought.  The game is amazing, and the players are head and shoulders above most other games out there.  Yeah, there's some literally stinky dingleberries out there.  Avoid them.  Let them play their little popularity game of "Staff H8s Me More" over on JCarter's Masturbatory Memorial Board and just go out there and beat them.

Be awesome.  Fuck the ones who bring you down.

[Miradus]

There could be 20 people right now plotting to kill me and I wouldn't know it.

How do YOU know it? That's what I don't understand. Are they sending you PM's saying they know who you are and they're going to kill you?

[Orin]

If you really do enjoy Armageddon, take a break.  Make a new handle on the GDB.  Don't let anyone know who you were.  If you see other Arm players in real life, tell them you stopped playing.  Most importantly, stop logging on to chat platforms of any kind.

I've had near sixteen handles in the past eighteen years because of OOC abuse of this nature.

[Talkofthetown]

There could be 20 people right now plotting to kill me and I wouldn't know it.

How do YOU know it? That's what I don't understand. Are they sending you PM's saying they know who you are and they're going to kill you?

One time, I was PMed a complaint about my character arresting theirs and that they were going to keep rolling characters until they killed me. They eventually succeeded.

The other time, a post on the jcarter board went up about how someone should kill my long-lived character just to troll me. That never actually happened.

[Talkofthetown]

The game is amazing, and the players are head and shoulders above most other games out there.

Sadly, not enough of a reason to continue to deal with the "dingleberries" as you put it, at this point. They are clearly not going to go away, they are only going to make the game worse, and they do it so their characters can get a leg up in the game.

[Nathvaan]

How is that behavior remotely acceptable?

It is not acceptable and there are rules against exactly this for exactly this reason.  The advice so far in this thread is valid and good from a player's perspective.  From a staff's perspective I would say you can feel free to bring your experiences and issues to us via the request tool.  We take it seriously and we investigate.

So the things you can do is let us know and then realize that other people's ass-tardary is something that is well beyond your control.  Steer clear of talking to anyone OOC and just enjoy being your character and all that goes along with that would be my advice. When you are deep in your scenes and forget about everything else but the RP in which you are entrenched, that is when this game truly shines.

[Kalden]

There could be 20 people right now plotting to kill me and I wouldn't know it.

This. Why don't you stop talking to those people? I started in 2003 and came back in 2016 after a 5-year break, and it doesn't seem that different. There's always been OOC chatter, but it never really affected me and still doesn't.

Since I came back around 9 months ago, I've interacted IC a fair amount with powerful, long-lived people who might be inclined to plot people's deaths. Hardly interacted with people OOC outside of maybe an occasional scheduling sync. If this was a serious issue, I'm pretty sure I'd have caught wind of it...

With that said, I have checked out the shadow board and I sort of have the opposite reaction: I would like there to be more communication from staff around addressing some of the complaints. I'd like to see the occasional retrospective analysis from staff about where they could have improved, internal conduct guidelines made public, high-level transparency perhaps with some Key Performance Metrics (including both game metrics and software quality metrics, e.g. # of open bugs, perhaps test coverage of code altho I think unit tests are way overrated, etc), more active solicitation of feedback, and perhaps a public roadmap. I have a bias towards that approach as a software engineer in an "Agile" shop in San Francisco where we try to do these things all the time and spend a lot of time trying to improve our practices as well as communicating to our customers and seeing how we can help make their lives better. Which is not to say that staff doesn't do that in the GDB, but it feels a bit haphazard.

Anyhow, the only thing driving me away from the game is that I have other real-life strategic priorities and this game is too damn addictive, altho it can feel a bit oriented around mudsexing and grinding skills versus changing the world, adrenaline-packed action, and mysterious intrigue. The latter three are why I play Armageddon.

[Talkofthetown]

How is that behavior remotely acceptable?

It is not acceptable and there are rules against exactly this for exactly this reason.  The advice so far in this thread is valid and good from a player's perspective.  From a staff's perspective I would say you can feel free to bring your experiences and issues to us via the request tool.  We take it seriously and we investigate.

So the things you can do is let us know and then realize that other people's ass-tardary is something that is well beyond your control.  Steer clear of talking to anyone OOC and just enjoy being your character and all that goes along with that would be my advice. When you are deep in your scenes and forget about everything else but the RP in which you are entrenched, that is when this game truly shines.

I understand that it is against the rules, and if I continue to play the game then I will report incidents as they occur. I am asking that question in the context of the player perspective - in other words, how is this behavior acceptable to the players that engage in it? - because following that rule in particular is really based on the honor system since staff can't monitor most OOC activities.

[Miradus]

The kind of behavior you're describing is so egregious ...

Well, most people who haven't experienced it are going to be shocked. Those who have are going to have come to grips with it in their own way.

And those who engage in it? Are probably thrilled to no end to see you post about it.

Griefers gonna grief, is what I'm saying.

[wizturbo]

I understand that it is against the rules, and if I continue to play the game then I will report incidents as they occur. I am asking that question in the context of the player perspective - in other words, how is this behavior acceptable to the players that engage in it? - because following that rule in particular is really based on the honor system since staff can't monitor most OOC activities.

For the overwhelming majority of players it isn't acceptable at all.  The problem is like most populations there's a bell curve-like distribution of adherence to the rules.  Some rare few have zero OOC interactions what so ever about anything.  The majority probably have the equivalent of driving 5 mph over the speed limit kind of OOC interactions.  And then on the other end you have the OOC felons who are doing the stuff you're referring to in your posts. 

With that said, there's probably more you can be doing to protect yourself.  It isn't easy to tell who is playing who in this game unless they follow similar patterns in-game, or have some forms of OOC communications of their own going on.  Changing up your IC behaviors, speech patterns and emotes should help you be more incognito in-game.

Out of game, I'd recommend ceasing all OOC conversations entirely save whatever you want to do on the GDB.  There's a good chance one of the 'friends' you talk to isn't doing you any favors.

[boog]

I've had two people tell me to store before, too.

I effectively told them to kiss my ass. Fuck them.

Like Malifaxis, I know this is easier said than done, but you've just gotta play. If you would rather control how your character's story ends, then I'd recommend writing stories on your own time. Armageddon is a shared experience, a shared story, even if others would share it with an OOC slant or grudge.

Just keep swimming, friend.

[Is Friday]

Wow! I've never had someone tell me to store before. They usually just try to kill my PC through IC or OOC means. That's cool, I guess.

I dunno. I've talked to and still do talk to some folks that I've met IRL--others that I haven't. I enjoy talking about the game with my friends, that's what I do. Can't say I've ever used it to greatly benefit myself in an OOC way.

If you leave the ball in someone else's court to decide how you enjoy the game then you're selling yourself short on what fun you're capable of having. Hell, there's chunks of players that avoid playing in the same clan as me like the plague because of the "reputation" I have OOC. Don't let it bother you and just don't involve yourself. (See signature for a relevant quote.)

[Sedora]

I am a far, far younger player as far as years invested than you, but I've sensed the problems you're talking about. I've found that walling off people who begin to appear like talkarounds, or outright cutting them out of my OOC completely, seems to alleviate a lot of stress. It's only natural in a social environment like this game to want to make friends with the people behind the characters. However, simply knowing someone who also plays the game, if that's all it ever is and you never talk about the game, can affect the game if you let it.

Someone smart once told me that getting to know the players changes the entire experience, and I stand by that  myself. Sometimes it changes things for the better and you come out of it with an amazing friend who translates into IRL. Sometimes you end up with friends you can casually talk about unimportant joys about the game with, like those changes to bows and the adding of dyeable clothing! Sometimes, though, you start wondering when its going to backfire on you IC, or through staff if someone gets pissed at you and lies. My philosophy is share nothing of even almost vague importance, and if people you connect OOCly with try to take things there, cut them off.

As far as dealing with the aftermath of those types of actions in other people...they can only ruin your game if you let them. It is definitely possible to shove yourself into the void of obliviousness and enjoy every second of the game despite what ooc tards plot against you. It takes a little effort, but its well worth it when you can laugh in their face.

[Riev]

I don't know how to put it better than "You don't know they're unfairly targeting you unless you're engaging in similar OOC Communication".

I've talked with players, staff, ex-players, etc... the ones who don't like the OOC chatter let me know when I say something over the line, and I adjust. Some people may not, and there are some who basically only contact me to say stuff that happened in game that I'd never know about. PERSONALLY, I'm alright at keeping the IC and OOC decently separated, but I envy those who are so engrossed IC that they can't.

I've been to JCarter's boards. Like Movie Poop Chute, they're a bunch of people who claim to hate a game yet can't stop talking about it. Some of their information is actually super helpful, and only hurts the game because NEW players don't yet have the skill to apply that meta knowledge in game without sacrificing the narrative.

Other than that, I wish I could empathize, but I don't do things that attract that kind of attention. I'd say you're PROBABLY doing things right? You can't care about the 10 dislikes when 500,000 people like your video.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I would say people acting like this are actually game breaking.  I like to make different characters, which means some of my characters are real dirtbags.  I would hate for a hatred of that character to continue over to a new character that is not a dirtbag. 

[LauraMars]

If I'm playing a character I actually give a crap about I tend to keep it a dark secret and I wouldn't even tell my own mother.

[wizturbo]

This thread is making me consider using different GDB names when I join clans.  I haven't had any bad experiences yet, but now I'm paranoid.

[BadSkeelz]

Haters gonna hate. It's tough to manage but how much they bother you is really in your hands. There's other good advice here regarding OOC management, but I wouldn't change how you play IC. Play how you want.

[Delirium]

Haters gonna hate. It's tough to manage but how much they bother you is really in your hands. There's other good advice here regarding OOC management, but I wouldn't change how you play IC. Play how you want.

When BadSkeelz and I agree completely, you know it's good advice.

[Inks]

Just play the game. A lot of players can't seperate ic and ooc generally stick to the one year rule or you will shoot yourself in the foot. If you are playing a raider ignore people bitching about raiders on the gdb suddenly etc, generally when I avoid the gdb I have a better ig experience.

And when it comes to pc actions always act ic.

But yeah only you can stress you out. So...calm down and play, it's that simple.

[Talkofthetown]

It's interesting how many people are arguing for ignoring the OOC game. I'm not sure what that will do at this point. I have already said I don't participate in it, I only hear about it. I don't think my knowledge of what goes on is something that can just be undone. It's hard to forget what players have already done, that I didn't even solicit. They just decided to bother someone. If I suddenly decide to stop hearing about it and block the last three or four friends I've made in Arm in 10 years, it's too late at this point. I already know that it happens.

There's also some victim blaming in that logic, that I should just stop being bothered that people are breaking the rules to gossip about and hurt my character and possibly other players' characters. Like I said, I don't break the rules. People I'm friends with talk to people who do, and apparently there's plenty of them.

I'm curious why so few have suggested reporting it. I could probably go back into logs and report a bunch of incidents, but they are old at this point. The issue is there's probably no way to link those incidents to game accounts that I know of.

[Riev]

I didn't suggest reporting it, because you claimed in your original posts that "it wouldn't do you any good" and "they probably wouldn't find anyone anyway". You defeated the choice before it was ever made, why would I make it again?

And for my part, I suggest not paying attention to the OOC because that's the world we live in now. If someone HAS your AIM, or your email address, they CAN send you shit anonymously and troll you. People get threated to be doxxed for having differing opinions about online games.

Since this hasn't happened to me, virtually any advice I have is just going to be ignored, regardless. However, just play the damned game. If you play it in such a way that ANYONE gets annoyed or bothered by how you do it, for ANY reason other than you can't spell, or BOGRE-afk in the middle of important RPTs all day, fuck 'em.

So what if you KNOW it happens? Its going to happen to someone else, and someone else, and someone else, because some people would rather see the game crash and burn than admit they enjoy it and want to play it.

[Malken]

If you think this doesn't happen in other games, you're going to have a bad time.

Now that you know it happens/happened/will probably happen again, continue to play Arm or don't, it's your choice really.

If you want my own personal opinion, I find that most Arm players I've spoken with OOCly are batshit crazy in one way or another, so I don't bother with OOC friendships anymore (I hope this isn't seen as trolling, it's just my personal opinion/experience)

[Nergal]

If I find people breaking rules #6 or #7, they get punished in accordance with the rules. Typically this means karma reduction and/or a temporary ban on the first occurrence, and a permanent ban on the second occurrence. Indeed, all of the players I've banned during my tenure as producer (not that there were a lot of them, mind you) were banned for breaking rules #6 or #7, or both.

Players who report rule-breaking earn staff trust and do a service toward helping keep the game fair. Players who are aware of rule-breaking and do not report it are, in my opinion, complicit in the behavior. As a player, it is best for you to follow the rules and report rule breaches by others. That is the only way we can maintain the collaborative storytelling environment mentioned in the OP.

That's about all I have to say on the subject. I wouldn't ask anyone to play the game if they're not having fun. But I would ask players to pitch in and help clean up the game if it is dirty.

[Dar]

This thread is making me want to oocly gossip. What is IsFridays reputation?

I've read the Jcarters forums awhile ago. I actually thought its deserted,  but I guess it lingers on. One thing I observed about "I hate uuu" posts there, is that most veteran grudgemongers there aren't even playing. Either due to banning, or whatever. They rekindle each others hate, shit post, but dont actually play. Continously asking for the latest dish on some plot. Looking in through the crack between the windows drapery.

My point is that their opinions and shit posting mean squat. They can shit talk about you, your character,  or whatever else, it means nothing. 

Sometimes shit happens. I hope to god that when some dude pmed you with a promise to kill you,  your next act was copy pasting this into a request tool. And if they succeeded, then they are identified and are probably banned by now.

But overall, I'm sorry to 'victim blame', but the idea of ignoring it is basically the 'only' real course of action. If you have concrete threat then report it. But if you are browsing Jcarters forums for mentions of your name,  then just don't. 

If every person that did something to be commented about on Internet,  took these comments serious,  nobody would get anything done.

[Fathi]

It's interesting how many people are arguing for ignoring the OOC game. I'm not sure what that will do at this point. I have already said I don't participate in it, I only hear about it. I don't think my knowledge of what goes on is something that can just be undone. It's hard to forget what players have already done, that I didn't even solicit. They just decided to bother someone. If I suddenly decide to stop hearing about it and block the last three or four friends I've made in Arm in 10 years, it's too late at this point. I already know that it happens.

There's also some victim blaming in that logic, that I should just stop being bothered that people are breaking the rules to gossip about and hurt my character and possibly other players' characters. Like I said, I don't break the rules. People I'm friends with talk to people who do, and apparently there's plenty of them.

It's not victim blaming so much as understanding from experience that other people aren't going to change their behaviour without being prompted to. You seemed to have already committed to not reporting any of this stuff to staff based on your OP, and if you don't report it, then why would the behaviour change? At that point your own response is all you have.

You don't need to block people. There's a happy medium between rule-breaking collusion and being a total recluse from the social aspect of the game.

There's a reason why I don't have any contact information on my GDB profile. The players I'm friends with already have me on Facebook or see me IRL enough to know how to find me, and I don't want any random to be able to stick his nose in my business.

Nobody has my email address. And regarding said friends on Facebook etc., it's remarkably easy to just drop a, "hey, let's not talk about that" if someone asks you a question that'd be rule-breaking or just makes you uncomfortable. And generally, if they're a nice and respectful person, after a time or two of that, they won't bring it up again. I can't remember the last time this was an issue for me personally because I am pretty blunt about what I will talk about vs what I will not. People respect that. If these people are your friends, they will respect you.

Like any other social situation, you have to define boundaries. Then, if people push up against those boundaries, you know they are not good people to be talking to. Talk to people who respect your boundaries. This is good advice for any aspect of life.

[wizturbo]

Since I love analogies, I would equate this to safe sex.  Abstinence is the only surefire way to protect yourself from risk, but that's definitely not the norm for people.  For those who want to socialize with other players, each 'partner' comes with some level of risk.   You can drastically mitigate those risks by using protection, and choosing 'partners' that don't seem like they might have been copulating with dirty 'rinth rats.   From the sound of it, OP's problem is they use protection but some of their friends are engaged in high risk behaviors if they're posting logs of stuff they shouldn't be seeing to begin with.  It's a major warning sign if they're saying they've seen something like that to me, even if they're coming to warn you about some kind of misconduct against you. 

To use another analogy (2 for 2 here) it's like your neighbor coming over and showing you surveillance photos of your bedroom to point out someone broke in and stole your watch...  As much as you might like to know about the crime, the fact that your neighbor has surveillance photos is concerning because there are very few harmless reasons I can think of as to why they'd have those.

Anyway, I don't know who your friends are, or any details beyond what you've already posted, but if you wrap up your virtual dingdong and are still catching virtual STD's you might consider abstinence.  That's what I would do.   And unlike abstaining from sex, I think there's a lot to be said that abstaining from socializing with other players is actually more fun and exciting.  It's a lot easier to murder, betray, love, hire or ignore someone when you have zero RL connection to them. 

[SuchDragonWow]

People want to kill your character, congratulations, you've won the game!  I don't know how well this works for you, but I work in a competitive field that measures success by reputation.  Fairly often I have people talking about me in order to sabotage my career.  Some things I've learned:

1) Don't bite.  One way you let them win is by letting it upset you and showing that it does upset you.  Whatever your style may be, laugh it off, shrug it off, or give them a stone face, but the important thing is to not show a bully you're taking damage.

2) You don't need to retaliate.  This only brings you down to their level, and if they do win, well hey, it sucks, but you have your dignity.

3) Be better.  The big way you beat someone trying to tear you down is just to be better and continue to be better.  I've had people try to talk about me behind my back, but the funny thing to me is that those people are either gone now or fading into the background.  Let your work (or play, in this case) speak for itself.

4) Tell your side of the story.  In your instance, make sure the powers that be are aware of what's going on.  What do you have to lose?

I hope this helps, I've been dealing with haters since the dawn of hate, and it only brought me down when I let it.

[WarriorPoet]

No one plays the OOC game with me. I tried to oocly set up mudsexxx a time or two but Malifaxis wouldn't stop emoting about the vile stench of his leather-clad desert crotch and I remained totally flaccid. Turned me off of ooc friendships and coordination forever.

[Synthesis]

Etc.

[Orin]

Oh hey I think I've seen that Batdude before at the Solstice parade.  It could have been some other masked buff guy though.

[Is Friday]

This thread is making me want to oocly gossip. What is IsFridays reputation?

lol.

It varies depending on what the best joke is at the moment.

[Sedora]

All this awesome.

You win the correlation game in this thread. That's a hilarious but amazingly perfect way to describe the situation really. Well done for putting it out that way. I couldn't figure out a way to say "If you have friends telling you that people are saying things, maybe you need to check your friends, cause its really the same sorta problem."

As far as Nergal's comment about complicit behavior: We can get staff involved in these sorts of problems easily enough I guess, but whose going to go to staff with "I know this is happening but I heard about it OOC, can you help me?" Cause in situations like that, you stand to get in more trouble than whoever is harassing you, even if you share literally zero with other players you know OOCly. Plus gossip through the outside pipeline isn't as tangible as stuff they can search logs for (because staff can't validate it and have no reason to trust it as truth), which means you risk getting in trouble yourself even though you're a victim, and the likelihood of it going anywhere is slim. So you put yourself under the microscope for no reason when you can achieve a similar level of peace by simply blocking people like that out of your life.

[manipura]

All this awesome.

You win the correlation game in this thread. That's a hilarious but amazingly perfect way to describe the situation really. Well done for putting it out that way. I couldn't figure out a way to say "If you have friends telling you that people are saying things, maybe you need to check your friends, cause its really the same sorta problem."

Same here.  wizturbo explained my thoughts quite nicely though.

[Malifaxis]

No one plays the OOC game with me. I tried to oocly set up mudsexxx a time or two but Malifaxis wouldn't stop emoting about the vile stench of his leather-clad desert crotch and I remained totally flaccid. Turned me off of ooc friendships and coordination forever.

.... you swore you'd never mention that, you monster!

[Synthesis]

The last time I talked to another player outside the GDB was...2012, according to my AIM logs.

I don't feel like I've missed out on anything, in particular.  Just stop talking to people about the game outside the GDB.  If your acquaintances can't respect that...fuck 'em.

[ghanima]

I'm curious why so few have suggested reporting it. I could probably go back into logs and report a bunch of incidents, but they are old at this point. The issue is there's probably no way to link those incidents to game accounts that I know of.

No offense or anything but why do you need other people to suggest it first? If that's what you want to do, do it. Personally, I think there's a little too much talk of reporting people on these boards that it creates a negative atmosphere. It almost feels the longer a thread becomes, the greater the chance of someone recommending reporting another player. And even if they are appropriate examples, the constant talking about isn't something I find helpful. So if no one has brought it up so far in this thread, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Regarding the rest of the topic, it's not for everyone and I don't keep this practice at all times myself but I find Arm to be the most real to me and the most visceral when I have zero ooc contact with any other players. It's totally understandable that most people want to talk about the game with others from time to time, so I'm hardly bringing this up to say that severing all ooc contact is what we should do. But I really do believe if you go for even one week of not communicating with anyone outside the game, you'll have a different feel about your experience and the other characters that you meet. You're also less likely to be aware of things like other players conspiring against you ooc or talking about you on some other forum. And since there's not much you can do about it, you might as well stay as ignorant as you can of it and just enjoy the game.

[Reiloth]

I've made plenty of friends through OOC contact in the game. But there are times where I cutoff, or say i'm taking a break, or otherwise abstain from talking with them about the game. I think wizturbo is correct in saying the only way to completely separate IC from OOC is to remove the possibility of OOC interaction. I've had plots ruined to me unsolicited, i've had people tell me they died on a hunt and where their body is so I can loot it. I've had the whole gamut, and every time someone crosses the boundary I set, I block them and move on.

I've had plenty of people tell me that I should store, or insinuate it through thinly veiled IG jargon. But I think you need a certain confidence in yourself to play this game, and go through the motions of acting as the actor. We're all here to have fun. It's unfortunate that there's people out there who would delight in nothing more than to make your day miserable OOCly. But that's nothing new, it's part of living in this world. I honestly wouldn't waste the time reporting someone to Staff, because i'm not vindictive or vengeful in that way. If they sexually harassed me or otherwise made me uncomfortable in that way (getting an email telling me to store, for instance), I would surely report them for breaking rules. But for being mean, or otherwise crossing OOC boundaries...Eh. I just block'm and move on.

[Refugee]

Most people will stop telling you stuff if you tell them you don't want to know it.  Those that won't respect your wishes in this are not your friends.  Get rid of them like pulling off a tick.

[SuchDragonWow]

Send this to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPBPa2BQFRM

[Akaramu]

Don't let anyone know who you play.

Use dummy GDB accounts for clans / announcement posts.

[Raptor_Dan]

Don't let anyone know who you play.

Use dummy GDB accounts for clans / announcement posts.

Not just GDB accounts, if you're on some kind of messenger (this is the worst, best advice, don't touch messengers for anything arm-related, otherwise...) start making complete and filled out personalities. Try something average, like Chalton_Chad, or DungBeetle_Gently, and give them each a gdb profile, a messenger, and an email. Then, introduce your friends to these guys, but have them each claim to be playing two or three different people on their own extra accounts.

THEN... slowly manipulate your so-called friends into assassinating Chad or Gently IG char because of OOC reasons, all the while feeding your so-called friends a bunch of disinformation through all your various profiles regarding Armaggedon. Have Chad jump off a two story building out of grief for what's going on in the game, chastise Gently and your so-called friends for being manipulative jerks, then cry for three days because it was actually you, who jumped off the building, and the line between reality has become very unclear for you. Store all chars. Store all personalities, and try to fit them into one awesome lump of crazy with a cool name like Raptor_Alfonze, or Raptor_Charleston_Chew.

If this sounds too tedious, just tell someone on staff you think X and Y are collaborating OOCly, because if they are, and you know about it, it's affecting My game, too. It doesn't have to go any further than that.


I'll tell you the rest on AIM, later.

[Nergal]

I'm going to go ahead and reluctantly lock this thread after I get a last word in. Annoying, I know, but this is the official staff position and I would rather not have it overrun by less useful advice.

That said: ignoring OOC chatter is good advice, but not good enough alone. Alone, it's simply a way to let people who use OOC unfairly to continue to do so without your knowledge. It's extremely advantageous to people who engage in improper OOC communication because you're taking yourself out as a possible leak to staff and making the OOC game stronger. The real game is ruined by unfair OOC players even more easily if you ignore it without reporting it.

So if you do know about it, it's your duty to the game to report it. You will not get in trouble for reporting something, even if you accidentally or purposefully implicate yourself. As I said, you will earn the trust of staff and help the game as a whole. You could possibly get in trouble if you do not report someone, if that someone (or somebody else) goes on to report you first. We take great care to protect the identity of someone who reports something to staff, to the extent that we only do as much as we can without revealing the complainant, as we understand that will make OOC friendships awkward. We also take great care to determine the veracity of whatever evidence we get as well as its source.

The sad truth is that more of staff's time and resources have been nudged into revealing and shutting down OOC behavior. It's not an inordinate amount, but it's certainly more than it was a few years ago. We're not going to let it distract us from other things we're doing to make the game great.

Ultimately, it is in your best interest as well as in the game's best interest to shut down OOC gossip and coordination by reporting it, with evidence, and then ignoring it if necessary.