Release Note discussion!

[nessalin]

Old tablets and cures will continue to work as they always did.

The ability to make them will be removed once we've attained some confidence in feature parity between craft & brew and that the system acts as intended.

[ChibiTama]

A non-code issue with cure/poison crafted has been fixed.  Specifically the issue where most any cure/poison crafted was making red mashes, tablets, and vials.

The issue with yellow herbs making grey mashes will be fixed in tomorrow morning's reboot.

I'm still getting this red tablet issue with mashes that I made yesterday.

[Schrodingers Cat]

I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?

[ChibiTama]

Is there supposed to be such a high fail rate on the new brew code?

[bardlyone]

Is there supposed to be such a high fail rate on the new brew code?

The only things I've succeeded at making with it are the soaps you could before the change. After several fails on the first of what are apparently MULTIPLE steps now, I just gave up and went back to before. When most ingredients are costly and hard to find in duplicate unless you are personally out riding around for them, it simply becomes more efficient to stay with the old which takes twice as many ingredients (I assume, again, I've not gotten a mash to work at all, let alone steps after it), than to ruin 2-3x the materials that one tablet the old way uses.

I guess I'll just be screwed when it's phased out, but until then, I'll actually make stuff, so there's that at least. >.> I like the concept of the brew changes, but I'd have to succeed with... well... any of it... to even guess at how I like their implementation. Although, with jman ability, it's kinda disheartening to ruin half a dozen of half a dozen tries at just the first STEP of a new system.

[Hauwke]

I mean maybe it will function similar to cooking now, until you get near master you cant even cook a steak.

[nessalin]

I'm still getting this red tablet issue with mashes that I made yesterday.

Game Bug report, preferably with a log, would be helpful.

[RogueGunslinger]

Is there anything stopping someone from master-crafting up a trench-coat/bandoleer combo and having 8 loaded hand-crossbows draw-able from within it?

Pre-loaded crossbows could make for some seriously devastating damage potential if there's truly no delay.

[nessalin]

I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?

This is vague and impossible to reply to.  A gamebug, preferably wth a log, and some context would be helpful.

[nessalin]

Exaplantion of Cure/Poison crafting

[Riev]

Maybe with more fails and more material consumption, people won't walk around with a dozen cures that cost a small, against a rare poison that costs six time that for one application.

[bardlyone]

Maybe with more fails and more material consumption, people won't walk around with a dozen cures that cost a small, against a rare poison that costs six time that for one application.

Doubtful. People don't collect X, Y or Z as protection because they don't see a point in it. At best it will only affect newbies who can't find the stuff to start with, and new pcs who are already at a mass disadvantage against longer lived pcs. If you think it will change anything for longer lived pcs (the ones you might actually NEED poison to counter the combat skills of), I think you're kidding yourself. I don't mean that in a mean way, either. But seriously, it's not going to change a practice that is what it is because it's what people find they need to be/do/work effectively. All it's going to do is be more timesink for the same ends. People used to carry one set of cures and now they carry five or six. They adapted to the change to counter the change to make cures less of a guarantee by carrying more cures rather than just the 1 still and maybe dying to it. And in the exact same way that they will this one. Because it's human nature.

[Riev]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

[Schrodingers Cat]

I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?

This is vague and impossible to reply to.  A gamebug, preferably wth a log, and some context would be helpful.

Should we be able to craft the same effective cures/poisons with the new system using the same starting materials used to brew the same poisons/cures used to make them in the old system? I can't and I'm not sure if it's a bug or because of low skill level. I'll send some logs when I get a chance.

[Riev]

Is there anything stopping someone from master-crafting up a trench-coat/bandoleer combo and having 8 loaded hand-crossbows draw-able from within it?

Pre-loaded crossbows could make for some seriously devastating damage potential if there's truly no delay.

I'm sure, like "use tail" while riding a Sunback, this would be abused, and for an incredibly short time.


However, like a regular crossbow, I'd be fine if someone can fire off two shots without delay, before starting combat. If they drop the crossbows in between. But if you're in the same room I'm -totally- fine with it still initiating combat. At a distance, though? I can't imagine the kind of problem five no-lag shots can do to something.

[whitt]

I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.

[nessalin]

I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.

Much in the same way you live your whole life and never have to take a shit or sleep.

[whitt]

I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.

Much in the same way you live your whole life and never have to take a shit or sleep.

I suppose so?  Yet there are certain items in game, when you try to put them in a pack for storage they spill.  I'd think crossbow would behave similarly, staying cocked, but not loaded as the bolt would fall out if someone were to sling the crossbow or shove it in a bag or pack.  Then again, we don't require folks to string and unstring their bows for storage, so maybe I'm just overthinking.  Still - someone yanking fully loaded crossbows out of their duster, off their belt, from over their shoulder, and then three from their backpack strikes me as a bit immersion breaking.

[bardlyone]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.

[nauta]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.

I agree with the above concern about vulnerable newbies, but at the same time...

It'd require a lot of thinking through to make sure the balance is right (and right now the balance is pretty ok), but I would love to see: both poisons and cures spoil/expire after a certain amount of time -- I'm thinking: poisons) after an IG month if unapplied or an IG year if applied; cures) after an IG year if tablet; 2 IG years if vial.

[nessalin]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.

I agree with the above concern about vulnerable newbies, but at the same time...

It'd require a lot of thinking through to make sure the balance is right (and right now the balance is pretty ok), but I would love to see: both poisons and cures spoil/expire after a certain amount of time -- I'm thinking: poisons) after an IG month if unapplied or an IG year if applied; cures) after an IG year if tablet; 2 IG years if vial.

This is the line of thinking with the mash/tablet/vial system.  That over time their effectiveness would wane until they are eventually worthless (and would have text to indicate so the same way foods do).

A mash would be most effective but has the shortest lifespan.

A vial would be medium effectiveness with the longest lifespan.  Requires an empty vial so there's a cost component and size issue.

A tablet would be medium effectiveness with a medium lifespan.

This is not coded, or even planned coding, yet, but that is some of the thinking behind the progression of...

herbs->mash
herbs->mash->tablet
herbs->mash->vial

[Delirium]

One thing I've noticed is that it's very inconsistent what tablets/vials can be sold to herbalists - and the prices are abysmal. If they're eventually not going to be as useful to keep stockpiled, then we could at least make a business out of it by selling to NPCs as well as PCs, since playtime logistics can get really hairy (same as it does with food).

[ChibiTama]

I just find it a little bit excessive for someone who has the skill at Master to be failing four out of five on attempts to create mashes and tablets.

[Riev]

So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.

[nessalin]

I just find it a little bit excessive for someone who has the skill at Master to be failing four out of five on attempts to create mashes and tablets.

The numbers can certainly be tweaked.  We're in the early stages, still.  This is why the craft/brew systems are working in parallel as bugs are fixed.

If you could put in a game bug request with some hard numbers on your attempts/failures and which herbs you were using it would make it easier for me to look at what's going on.