Release Note discussion!

[zealus]

I think we, the players, are mature enough to not make a magicker if we know the gameworld is high in population of magicker subclass.

No we're not, and you know it.

Like if you cant survive a couple of months in a karma role...it's kinda on you. Now you can just keep rerolling until you get god stats.

Playing while taking risks that your PC would take and sometimes putting yourself in danger does not equate not knowing how to play the game, honestly.

[Aromit]

While I worried about the potential of people rolling in consecutive higher karma subguilds/races I realized long ago that I was in favor of removing the restrictions for one reason. I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Waiting 15 days to make a pc because they need to wait for a point to regen? No, let them play and let them play what they want. That's the better option.

[HazelHomewrecker]

I don't trust my fellow players not to abuse this new system, simply because they've proven time and time again in the past that given the opportunity, they absolutely will take advantage of anything and everything.  However, I agree that this change can certainly prove to be for the better, and only time can prove or disprove that.

[najdorf]

In favor of any change that give more freedom to players. Lat time while waiting for regen I installed another game and played it for 1.5 years, abandoning arm during that period

[Riev]

... what threshold would you consider too many @mansa ?

31% of the playerbase.

Surely there's already 10+ magicker/high karma players.

[eska]

TBH, I was never in favor of this change, nor the previous change where we reduced 8 points karma to 3 points. Things are going backwards now. I'm hoping to see the previous 8 points karma system soon.

[Furious George]

This year would be #30 for me, if I were choosing to play, and while the timers are a pain, they aren't my issue on playing.  I hope it helps others.

[roughneck]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58528.0.html

Spendable Karma being removed.

I am worried that the game will become mage centric again.  I am worried that the ability for staff to 'notice' that the playerbase has shifted to playing magick subclasses isn't something they can easily track.

Maybe there can be a weekly query that checks the number of active players that have magicker subclasses, and if it goes above a certain threshold they can pause magicker applications until it gets below that.

The game has always felt pretty magic-centric to me. With poisons now being a little harder to acquire/brew, and less effective than they used to be, I imagine it will become more-so. Not complaining, just is what it is.

However, I don't think karma regeneration will have a significant impact on # of mages in the game. It regenerated fast enough that it never felt very prohibitive, at least to me. If it does, it just means more newbie mages for savvy mundanes to hunt.

[Iiyola]

While I worried about the potential of people rolling in consecutive higher karma subguilds/races I realized long ago that I was in favor of removing the restrictions for one reason. I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Waiting 15 days to make a pc because they need to wait for a point to regen? No, let them play and let them play what they want. That's the better option.

^

[dumbstruck]

I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Quoted for truth.

People can attempt to shoehorn people into certain roles over other roles by making roles that people enjoy unavailable, but the better alternative is to ask what makes the roles that are being looked over in favor of the favored roles less interesting, less attractive, and less palatable. In some cases, there will be something that can be done to change behavior, in others there won't. But you can't force someone to play what they don't want to play, you can only force them to not play because what they want to play is no longer an option.

This is an opinion I've had for a very long time. I'm glad that for those who have access to karma, it is freely accessible again. Same as I'm glad they reopened Tuluk. You can't make people play something they don't want to play. If you want people playing something that isn't maybe being played as much or as often as you want it to be, it might be more effective to ask what that thing is lacking, or what it has that is off putting, and some flexibility on those points might see the numbers fluctuate higher, just my opinion of course.

[wizturbo]

While I worried about the potential of people rolling in consecutive higher karma subguilds/races I realized long ago that I was in favor of removing the restrictions for one reason. I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Waiting 15 days to make a pc because they need to wait for a point to regen? No, let them play and let them play what they want. That's the better option.

This is the right philosophy to have.  If there are too many karma characters in the game, then the game needs to change to adapt to the desires of the playerbase, not the other way around.

[Cabooze]

While I worried about the potential of people rolling in consecutive higher karma subguilds/races I realized long ago that I was in favor of removing the restrictions for one reason. I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Waiting 15 days to make a pc because they need to wait for a point to regen? No, let them play and let them play what they want. That's the better option.

This is the right philosophy to have.  If there are too many karma characters in the game, then the game needs to change to adapt to the desires of the playerbase, not the other way around.

There could always be incentives introduced to play as a mundane besides not being socially-screwed the moment you're outed?
Perhaps, mundanes, could select one 'trait' that can only be picked at character generation alongside their main/sub guilds.

They could be things such as,

+Pain/Alcohol Tolerance
Magic Resistance
Improved Direction Sense
One extra Master-level skill from a list that staff collectively agree with being acceptable to be given out to most any guild/sub. No Sap/Backstab, etc.
Extra Starting Money/Starting Mount

as well as other things I cba to think of atm

[Barsook]

I would like those too. Starting mounts would rock.

[Riev]

Like, I dunno... the ability to rise to any rank in nearly any established organization? (So long as that rank doesn't go above like... Sergeant. wahoo.)

[Ammut]

Yes I am finally able to make mul mages and run havoc all around.

Mul magick-users no longer exist due to careful breeding techniques.
https://armageddon.org/help/view/Muls

Some restrictions still apply.

[TragicMagick]

-snip-

I actually really like the single additional skill. I think that would be such a cool way to round out  character that for some reason can't get that skill due to class-subclass interactions not covering it. I think this could work best if you could pick from a small list of survival/manipulation/crafting skills.

Lacking climb or d-sense is so punishing and a way to put these in a character who wouldn't have them would be awesome. Having scan/hunt on a PC that normally wouldn't have it won't make the OP at all. Having access to a crafting skill you normally wouldn't (excluding poisoning/brewing) also seems like more of a quality of life thing than being OP.

[najdorf]

also, full mages will bring more chaos, war and pk to game, which is good. currently, even I know from self experience that players have option to play main guilds and be very good to defend (combat or stealth wise) first, then when they finally manifest and grow strong magically they are not prone to middling assaulters. it is ooc but even I miss the good oldd days when you could figure out if someone was gick cause they cant skin fight or hide . of course not the excuse to hunt them, but combined with their no choice but to work on spells urge, you could watch spot and murder them for fun. I believe this also gave most magickers fun too.

[Iiyola]

While I worried about the potential of people rolling in consecutive higher karma subguilds/races I realized long ago that I was in favor of removing the restrictions for one reason. I dislike any system that might in any way, for any length of time, convince a player to not login to the game.

Waiting 15 days to make a pc because they need to wait for a point to regen? No, let them play and let them play what they want. That's the better option.

This is the right philosophy to have.  If there are too many karma characters in the game, then the game needs to change to adapt to the desires of the playerbase, not the other way around.

There could always be incentives introduced to play as a mundane besides not being socially-screwed the moment you're outed?
Perhaps, mundanes, could select one 'trait' that can only be picked at character generation alongside their main/sub guilds.

They could be things such as,

+Pain/Alcohol Tolerance
Magic Resistance
Improved Direction Sense
One extra Master-level skill from a list that staff collectively agree with being acceptable to be given out to most any guild/sub. No Sap/Backstab, etc.
Extra Starting Money/Starting Mount

as well as other things I cba to think of atm

Yes please.

[eska]

Yes I am finally able to make mul mages and run havoc all around.

Mul magick-users no longer exist due to careful breeding techniques.
https://armageddon.org/help/view/Muls

Some restrictions still apply.

Dammit! But that won't stop me enjoying just to apply one.

[Krath]

Yes I am finally able to make mul mages and run havoc all around.

Mul magick-users no longer exist due to careful breeding techniques.
https://armageddon.org/help/view/Muls

Some restrictions still apply.

Dammit! But that won't stop me enjoying just to apply one.

Special App...It would be a special pc....

[Wday]

Mutants sounds found and can look bad ass now!

[Lotion]

It would be nice if the mutant stuff was available in the change ldesc room

[perfecto]

TBH, I was never in favor of this change, nor the previous change where we reduced 8 points karma to 3 points. Things are going backwards now. I'm hoping to see the previous 8 points karma system soon.

Wowwww I had already completely forgotten about this!  I think I had 4 or 5 tops ever, because I never played nobles or templars or leadership roles due to not having enough time to be active for those playing under those roles lol.  Didn't you need 3 just to play a D.elf?  5 for a giant I think?  7 for Mul and 8 for Psi Sorc!  Only saving grace was that you could spec app 3 times a RL year  for something 1 karma above what you had... then die in 4 hours.. and have to buy yourself a new computer.   Honestly I don't mind the change!

[Barsook]

Scan and Listen now show up in stat while active

Thank you!

[Krath]

Halaster can you talk specifically to what is being changed with respect to:

- First pass on weapon damage standardization, which is just the underlying code with no DB changes