Release Note discussion!

[Brokkr]

You mean extended subguilds?

Spendable karma is now live.  You will only see options that you have available, spendable karma for.

We've been tracking karma spending for months now, it just wasn't impacting players in chargen.  So if you used karma options in the past, you could still be regenerating the spendable karma.

[Nathvaan]

Ah!

Yeah, logging into the character worked. I now see the appropriate options.

Should I be seeing the old subguilds available at 1 karma point? This is what I'm seeing:

Sub-classes:
a) Archer               d) Armor Crafter        e) Bard
g) Bounty Hunter        i) Caravan Guide        j) Con Artist
k) Crafter              m) Forester             n) Gladiator
p) Guard                q) House Servant        r) Hunter
s) Jeweler              u) Linguist             w) Mercenary
y) Nomad                aa) Outlaw              ab) Physician
af) Tailor              ag) Thief               ah) Thug
ai) Weapon Crafter      bu) Custom Crafter

There may have been an issue with what your current karma was set to.  I updated it on your account and it seems to have fixed the display issue. I will continue to monitor people's current karma value to see if there is any odd issues for some accounts.

Please everyone bear with us as we try and normalize everything.  It's always a bit of a pain to have backward compatibility with accounts that could have been around for decades!

[Brytta Léofa]

We've been tracking karma spending for months now, it just wasn't impacting players in chargen.  So if you used karma options in the past, you could still be regenerating the spendable karma.

o shit, I made a 2-point throwaway character. 

[Miradus]

There may have been an issue with what your current karma was set to.  I updated it on your account and it seems to have fixed the display issue. I will continue to monitor people's current karma value to see if there is any odd issues for some accounts.

Please everyone bear with us as we try and normalize everything.  It's always a bit of a pain to have backward compatibility with accounts that could have been around for decades!

Force updating it seems to have worked. I was seeing delf as a race option so it was picking up the 1, but not showing it in extended subguilds. Now I'm seeing everything as per before. Looks good.

Normalizing is going to take weeks. I get that. Hope my reports are helping.

[only_plays_tribals]

Do the subclasses which have "listen" have city or wilderness versions of it established?

As in, if one takes a 0 CGP subclass of bard, do they get journeyman city_listen or wildnerness_listen or is it legacy?

[Brokkr]

Master Trader now has wilderness listen.  But they also have legacy listen.  All other subclasses have legacy listen, currently.

[Zerero]

I'm only seeing the old classes as well 

[RogueGunslinger]

Everyone prepared for the mass storage and suicide that's about to happen?

[stoicreader]

Everyone prepared for the mass storage and suicide that's about to happen?

Explains why my character report hasn't been resolved.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I don't know what happened, Lord Templar. Everyone in the city just got in line and walked out the gates and threw themselves off the shield wall....

[Cind]

People are already mistaking me for a new class and trying to employ me. I suppose I ought to exist from time to time, you know, log in. If you're having trouble getting employed right now, like you're a dwarf who wants to be a House crafter, this is a good time to get on the boat.

[stoicreader]

When I search Custom Craft on the website there is a conflict of information between the first two entries. One says you need to be master the other does not.

Are the new custom crafter sub class limited to 1 entry per month?

[valeria]

I'm a lot more in the bummed place than excited place at the moment. Merchant was by far my favorite guild, and as far as I can see, there is just no way to make the functional equivalent of crafting ability plus social skills (listen). Artisan doesn't have listen, fence doesn't start with listen (and doesn't have full crafting skills). So in order to get full crafting skills and my favorite merchant skills (really just listen), I'd have to spend a subguild, which would mean no custom crafting for me. Super bummed.

[Cowboy]

Did you check out craftsperson?

[valeria]

It's in the same category as fence--missing crafting skills.

[valeria]

And we're talking big ones, the ones that allow you to just roll up a merchant without any preconceived notion about what house you want to join, if any. Craftsperson is missing bowmaking (Kurac). There is just no way to make a character that gets master crafting in anything that might end up relevant, and listen.

[perfecto]

I don't know what happened, Lord Templar. Everyone in the city just got in line and walked out the gates and threw themselves off the shield wall....

Krath Damn northy mindworms are at it again!  Release the Gaj!

Are you sure that will help the situation my lord?

Not at all! but at least we'll get to say that WE did the killing!

[only_plays_tribals]

Listen is a really important RP skill, especially for city-bound merchants IMHO. Scan is too honestly. I'd end up feeling like inattentive custom crafting slave labour I think, can't see anything secretly happening (no hemotes because no scan or watch) or hear anything secretly said (no tables/doors/whispers because no listen).

I mean that's why it's more fun to whisper your plans than way them right? Got to give someone a chance to hear...

[Veselka]

Really happy to see custom crafting turn into its own sub guild. I always felt like too many merchants turned into Custom Craft Machines, especially when people saw they were around for 30-50 days played.

[valeria]

Yes, now people who enjoy custom crafting a variety of things are instead shoe-horned into a very small, tight set of main guild choices. Woohoo. Unless you're a social/builder type player, in which case these changes just feel like yet another neuter to the things that are enjoyable about the game.

It feels like the more varied /more interesting variety of stealth, combat, and even crafting roles could have been accomplished without a huge nerf toward people who enjoy putting things in the game. But hey, I'm admittedly depressed and bitter, since the change to the guild structure was something I was seriously looking forward to until it came with a simultaneous, bad change to something I really enjoy (custom crafting). It feels like magicker change 2.0 in that regard: hey let's put in cool options and then take out these other things people really like.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I don't remember exactly what thread it was but staff was very specific about the listen skill and the merchant guild that if you choose the right subguild you could be both master crafter and master spy and that combination was just too OP.  In fact, I'm fairly certain the new classes.were structured so that the master spy/merchant would no longer be an available option.

[hyzhenhok]

...that sounds more like an issue with having a subguild that allowed you to tack perfect stealth onto any class, rather than an issue with merchant.

I always thought Merchant + Slipknife and Merchant + Outdoorsman were ridiculous combos, but the problem is Slipknife and Outdoorsman giving you all the skills you need to be competent in their domain. Compare to the combat extended subguilds.

Maybe once the subclasses are rebalanced staff will feel comfortable taking another look at the heavy mercantile.

[hyzhenhok]

Can we get an update to help mastercrafting that explains the new rules in one place? I'm still not clear exactly on it.

[stoicreader]

Can we get an update to help mastercrafting that explains the new rules in one place? I'm still not clear exactly on it.

I agree its confounding.

[nessalin]

Friendly reminder that we all get to decide how we spend our free time.  This includes people who spend their's being staff on the game.  I wouldn't expect anyone to play the game if they don't enjoy it - likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to work on staff if they aren't enjoying it.