Release Note discussion!

[CodeMaster]

Sounds like now it will be almost impossible to branch certain ranger things from listen.

Try to stay positive.  How are you drawing this conclusion?

[Molten Heart]

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[Brokkr]

A number of play testers were rather strident that the wilderness classes have some way to detect certain stealth.  Hopefully they didn't just want to overhear conversations, since it makes zero sense for wilderness folks to get that in their toolbox, so they don't.

[Krath]

A number of play testers were rather strident that the wilderness classes have some way to detect certain stealth.  Hopefully they didn't just want to overhear conversations, since it makes zero sense for wilderness folks to get that in their toolbox, so they don't.

What about scouts going out to try to figure out the enemies plans...Im just...I get it, realism realism realism...But the Realism vs Playability balance needs to come into account also.

[IronGold]

What about a scout? Sending a scout out to watch an enemy and listen for any details on movements or information....that seems pretty vital for them in that sense. I'm not talking about a spy in a city, but watching and listening to raiders from cover in the brush or in a war situation where a spy is listening from under sand cover from nearby troops.

[Insigne]

Steering the current topic a little but...

-Added subguilds for beta testing.

New subguilds? Where?

[Nao]

Do you have similar plans to break up scan into city scan and wilderness scan?

[Akariel]

Steering the current topic a little but...

-Added subguilds for beta testing.

New subguilds? Where?

[Malken]

Do you have similar plans to break up scan into city scan and wilderness scan?

It's been done a long time ago, no?

Edit: Oh, you mean making them two different skills in the skill list.

[only_plays_tribals]

What about a scout? Sending a scout out to watch an enemy and listen for any details on movements or information....that seems pretty vital for them in that sense. I'm not talking about a spy in a city, but watching and listening to raiders from cover in the brush or in a war situation where a spy is listening from under sand cover from nearby troops.

What about scouts going out to try to figure out the enemies plans...Im just...I get it, realism realism realism...But the Realism vs Playability balance needs to come into account also.

all secret plans are to be discussed outside the gate five leagues inside a tent.

[roughneck]

As a genuine question...

How much utility is there for listen_wilds?

This is where I'm at. Listen can be marginally helpful if you don't have scan... but really, listen's usefulness is listening in on conversations, not the other things it does.

[stoicreader]

Sounds like now it will be almost impossible to branch certain ranger things from listen.

Try to stay positive.  How are you drawing this conclusion?

Skills related to listening well in the wilderness, like knowing what movements make sounds so you can move silently, are learned from listening. I don't understand how to fail at listening out in the wilderness. My 5 day ranger had listen always on outside. It never got any better. If it wasn't due to the thief subguild that special skill not mentioned here would have never branched.

[Nao]

Do you have similar plans to break up scan into city scan and wilderness scan?

It's been done a long time ago, no?

Edit: Oh, you mean making them two different skills in the skill list.

No, I don't mean that - and I don't think so? If you play a character with city sneak/hide, you tend get spotted by hunters.

[sleepyhead]

It'd be really cool if this change meant that some new utility (and skillup opportunities) for wilderness listen could be eventually added. It'd be neat if wilderness listeners, for example, got a message when a PC/NPC/mob entered or left one of the adjacent rooms.  "You hear sounds of movement to the west."  Things like that!

[stoicreader]

It'd be really cool if this change meant that some new utility (and skillup opportunities) for wilderness listen could be eventually added. It'd be neat if wilderness listeners, for example, got a message when a PC/NPC/mob entered or left one of the adjacent rooms.  "You hear sounds of movement to the west."  Things like that!

This happens already with scan I believe.

[sleepyhead]

It has never happened for me.

[stoicreader]

It has never happened for me.

foic

[CodeMaster]

Sounds like now it will be almost impossible to branch certain ranger things from listen.

Try to stay positive.  How are you drawing this conclusion?

Skills related to listening well in the wilderness, like knowing what movements make sounds so you can move silently, are learned from listening. I don't understand how to fail at listening out in the wilderness. My 5 day ranger had listen always on outside. It never got any better. If it wasn't due to the thief subguild that special skill not mentioned here would have never branched.

I don't know either, but my understanding is that rangers still have the legacy listen skill.  From what I've heard about the new guilds, they're designed around minimizing some of this grind.  The pickpocket guild for example is one of the toughest nuts to crack in terms of branching skills.

[Armaddict]

As a note, the purpose of my question was to find out if listen had also been changed to add utility to it.

In it's current form, listen as listen_wild is pretty much a skill for a nincompoop.

[Vox]

Unless listen_wild gives you something akin to the watch command in that you 'hear' activity very far to the south or something without having to actually look or watch in that direction.. I'm also having a hard time understanding why this was separated into city/wilderness varietals.

For playability, a keen ear should be a keen ear.. whether it's voices you're hearing or the clatter of giant insect claws across terrain, in my opinion.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

I think it is more an ability to separate ambient sounds of the current environment from sounds that shouldn't be there.

Edited to add: I do believe, however, conversations held in the wilderness should be part of this, if it isn't.

[X-D]

I agree with Vox, it makes little sense to me, sound is sound...being good at telling what sounds are what in whatever noise is the same. I am as adept at telling if that is a deer or a squirrel in the woods at 40 yards as I am at listening to conversations in bars two booths away.

Also, wind...I do not have a problem with it being harder, but not at all? Come on.

Also...the sound of conversation tends to really travel in the woods when you are actively listening. I have heard people talking and thought they were on my property...go to check and find out they are 300 yards away down the hill 50 yards outside my fence. True, that is when the wind is blowing towards me.

Which, if you actually want to be realistic, Sound travels very well with the wind...make wilderness listen directional in all but the strongest storms. That would be cool. I have had people upwind of me 70 yards not hear when I fire a .22 rifle in a good 15mph breeze.

[Delirium]

If it works like wilderness/city scan it's probably "it still works, but you're better at it in the correct environment."

So with desert listen, you aren't savvy Aide Amos, sidling up to Tressy and Talia to hear their bar conversation, but you might still overhear some of their chit-chat, or a guy trying not so well to follow you in the street. But, because you're Dusty McDunesman, you can hear a goudra sneaking through the brush at fifty paces, and sidle up on that encampment in the dunes to hear their plans for a dawn attack like nobody's business.

That's how I would assume it works based on the way wilderness vs city hunt and scan already work.

[stoicreader]

Our ears can pick up thousands of sounds over a few seconds. What we choose to listen to is a matter of training.

This is why my spouse never can hear me.

[Insigne]

It'd be really cool if this change meant that some new utility (and skillup opportunities) for wilderness listen could be eventually added. It'd be neat if wilderness listeners, for example, got a message when a PC/NPC/mob entered or left one of the adjacent rooms.  "You hear sounds of movement to the west."  Things like that!

+1

In a similar line of thought, I'd love to see some kind of feedback when a stealthy attempt to enter a room fails. Something like 1) a hemote-esque echo:

Code Select Expand


The tall, muscular human arrives from the west.
(You notice he is trying to avoid notice.)


... or 2) a different room arrival echo:

Code Select Expand


The tall, muscular human stealthily arrives from the north.