Release Note discussion!

[Veselka]

Very cool addition. Can't wait to try it out (and have it tried out on my PCs).

[Eyeball]

I hope that the 'threaten' command will be delayed in the same way that many commands are when moving between rooms. It shouldn't be possible to just teleport up to people and threaten them. The converse of danger when fleeing is being able to see people approaching you before they are within striking distance, something that is a lot easier in reality than in the game.

[WarriorPoet]

E (charging up, weapon at the ready); threaten badguy

This is an awesome addition. I recently had an encounter where it would have come in handy.

Question:

Is there a delay?

[nessalin]

Question:

Is there a delay?

As per the help file, the delay comes after.

[evilcabbage]

after


edit: god damnit nessalin i was gonna answer it ;_;

[Dresan]

This is a good skill, glad to see it being implemented.

However, I am curious what happens if the first command the victim types is 'flee self'. Will the victim fail or be stopped from fleeing, or combat will start and the victim flees anyways? The raider is delayed after using the threaten skill so its easy for the victim to get away.

I can't help but think that chase should also be made a skill, allowing a chance to chase through flee (depending on chase skill vs flee skill). I've always been a fan of making the flee skill more important. Unfortunately, I digress, this is probably another thread all together.

Either way good addition and an improvement to the over all experience.

[nessalin]

This is a good skill, glad to see it being implemented.

However, I am curious what happens if the first command the victim types is 'flee self'. Will the victim fail or be stopped from fleeing, or combat will start and the victim flees anyways? The raider is delayed after using the threaten skill so its easy for the victim to get away.

I can't help but think that chase should also be made a skill, allowing a chance to chase through flee (depending on chase skill vs flee skill). I've always been a fan of making the flee skill more important. Unfortunately, I digress, this is probably another thread all together.

Either way good addition and an improvement to the over all experience.

Raider uses the threaten command on Merchant.
Raider is now threatening Merchant.
Raider is now lagged from the threaten command.

Merchant types 'flee self'
Raider's threaten has a 35% chance of succeeding.

Threaten succeeds:
  Raider immediately attacks Merchant
  Raider is still lagged from threaten, however, so none of Raider commands will go through until that ends.

Threaten fails:
  Merchant flees.
  Raider is still lagged from threaten and cannot give chase until the threaten lag wears off.

[Kialae]

I would assume combat begins immediately, but any subsequent input commands (kick, bash, flee) would be after the delay.

Edit: Yep, I either didn't notice, or I got ninja'd, by Ness.

[SlaughterHouse5]

If the threaten succeeds and you do attack in a crimcoded area, you'll still become Wanted, right?

[stark]

I don't suppose this resolves the "raider" making the demand for coins, the "merchant" paying it, and then still being killed by the "raider".

[Rathustra]

I don't suppose this resolves the "raider" making the demand for coins, the "merchant" paying it, and then still being killed by the "raider".

What's to resolve here? This is a classic example of the scorpion and the fox.

[Grapes]

backstab rathustra

EDIT: Wasn't it the frog and the scorpion?

EDIT2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI7VT9W587c

[KankWhisperer]

Would threaten trigger crim code in the city or in front of soldiers immediately?

Would the attack go through before or after the action they are threatening against? If it's before you can even draw a weapon I think that 'combat' types should have some skill to get their weapon out before the attack at least.

[Grogerif]

backstab rathustra

EDIT: Wasn't it the frog and the scorpion?

EDIT2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI7VT9W587c

Some versions of the story replace the frog and/or scorpion with other animals.  The moral is the same.

[Dresan]

There doesn't seem to be any additional lag to the victim so even after a successful threaten skill, they can just type flee again (assuming the first command of the victim is stopped?) and be on their way. This isn't a necessarily a bad thing, of course.

My original concern here was the flee command would still go through immediately, even though threaten started an attack. In the past I had an experience where I attacked someone, and they would flee instantly. I think they had flee triggered/macro because they would flee so quickly, my character didn't even have a chance to attack even once after starting the fight.

The threaten skill is basically a good RP tool. Even at 100 percent of threaten skill success there would be no issue since it would still give a chance to RP the situation. Similar as a raider running in and typing kill merchant since the kill command is also 100 percent chance of success but gives no chance for RP.

I wouldn't mind seeing characters that can master threaten skill get a chance to delay their victim when the victim performs their first command. The delay on the victim side would be shorter than that of the raider, however, it would make people think twice about whether or not fleeing is a good enough option versus trying to RP it out. Though this might skew things in favor of the raider side of things, lets not forget anyone outside the walls leaves understanding the many dangers and should be coming prepared. 

[Grapes]

The threaten command is pretty neat, imo. Have yet to see it used, but think some should be able to get it to master (once it's properly tested), particularly, raiders and thugs.

[Riev]

I cannot wait to use threaten, at least it will be a way to codedly represent "I am here to raid you and willing to RP out the scene, not just attack immediately. Stand down."

I have similar concerns about the legalities of threaten that I'm SURE I'll find out ICly.

My worry is that if someone tries to flee from a threaten, and the raider successfully attacks, there is still no lag on the person BEING threatened, who can just spam "flee self" and run away immediately after, while the raider is still recovering and "positioning" from their threatening behavior.

I also wonder if threaten can be used OUT of hide... like hide;sneak;e;threaten merchant to kind of "pop out of the shadows, a blade extended" kind of threatening.

[Armaddict]

My worry is that if someone tries to flee from a threaten, and the raider successfully attacks, there is still no lag on the person BEING threatened, who can just spam "flee self" and run away immediately after, while the raider is still recovering and "positioning" from their threatening behavior.

I'm okay with this.  There is no 'you -can't- escape' mode that I would support; this is the closest it comes, I think.  This is where you position, and immediately it comes to your strength and skill making it.  If the flee triggers attacks of opportunity on the way out as well, there will probably be a few cases of insta-ko's that we hear about (I'm not sure if they do.  Threaten 'engages', then the flee happens?  So attacks of opportunity should happen there if the flee skill isn't high, at least sometimes, right?  That's a lot of free attacks.)

[Riev]

That's a fair point. The chance of attack for them trying to flee, added onto the Attack of Opportunity reaction would at least be enough to say "be careful next time" or administer poison, or in fact do enough damage to drop them.

I'm okay with it.

[Veselka]

It also at once seems to encourage threatening (and traveling) with groups of people, as to avoid the consequences in either respect of traveling or threatening on ones own.

[Armaddict]

One question I'd have, less about the code itself and more about it's use (from other players)...

Threaten vs Guard:
Is guard now something you use only for generic use while idle, or for nonspecificity?  For stopping groups?  It seems drastically more effective for all cases to just threaten off the bat to restrict movement, rather than guard entry into or out of an area.

[Riev]

I would assume that Threaten is just to auto-initiate combat, right out the gate. Conversely, Guard is to prevent someone from moving past in a non-threatening manner.

So you can guard your employer, and step in in case they ARE attacked, or you can overtly threaten someone who MIGHT attack, and intercept them that way.

My concern is: If you're guarding someone, and threaten a third person, do you stop guarding? If you fail the Threat Intercept, does your guard still check?

I'm sure its find out IC, but that's a good question.

[Armaddict]

Maybe guard should hard-counter threaten?

I.e. 'You move to threaten so and so, but his guard moves between you and so and so.' or 'You move to attack him for moving west, but the guard there moves inbetween you and him.'

[nessalin]

Maybe guard should hard-counter threaten?

I.e. 'You move to threaten so and so, but his guard moves between you and so and so.' or 'You move to attack him for moving west, but the guard there moves inbetween you and him.'

This is already coded.

If the Merchant is guarded by Guard, then Raider will get a fail message when they attempt to 'threaten merchant'.

"You move to threaten a weak-chinned merchant but a broad-chested guard steps in the way!"

[Hauwke]

I just love those descriptions of the people.

Serious:
I for one foresee a lot of use with raiding, but there is another aspect that has yet to be mentioned, Soldiers.

A soldier could threaten 'bad guy' to effectively, at least somewhat, detain a guy without actually physically holding the dude down, and I think that would be a good thing.