Another Terrible Idea: Maker's Mark

[Reiloth]

It's been discussed before. But I just thought, why have one bad idea when I can have two?

One Idea:
Certain crafting skills, when (master) is achieved, allow for the crafter to append a 50-100 (or whatever is like a sentence or two) description to the object. The object then becomes unique (or they can skip this step if they wish for it to remain generic). This allows for crafters to make their own unique embellishments (Guidelines written up for this, akin to the master crafting guidelines already in place), and add their own maker's mark.

Second Idea:
When a Merchant is created, in chargen, ask for them to write in their PC's 'maker's mark'. This is then appended to all of the crafts that PC makes of master quality, and can be analyzed by those capable of noticing them.

[manipura]

I tried to put a maker's mark on things with a past character, for a group formed in-game that I was working with.  I was told that since anyone with the appropriate skill can analyze craftable items and recreate them, the idea of a maker's mark didn't really work.

Edit:
If you have a mastercrafter who has made an item with a maker's mark, and some other mastercrafter analyzes it and sees the mark, as well as how to recreate the item...what good is the maker's mark then?  Isn't the one capable of analyzing going to recreate the mark if they recreate the item anyway?

[Riev]

Yeah, with how the code seems to be now, you'd just be making the same wood sword as Steve, but yours has "an etching of the symbol of Fred". Which I GUESS would be interesting, but it may as well just be a mastercraft with your markings on it. Just ask in your initial mastercraft for like... a dozen of the item.

[nauta]

Hmm.  I'm a little confused on the suggestion.

Idea One: Can't you do this already?  In the submitted description, add whatever flourish you want -- e.g., a mark of two roses at the bottom of the super chair?

If we are talking about the code that prevents people outside your coded clan from using 'analyze' to get the recipe from an item, then I would think this would be something available to MMH at a suitably high level.  It'd make sense at the "Trading Company" or "Minor Merchant House" level.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Player-Created%20Clans

AFAIK, you can tell staff you want the item to be 'unique' in the sense that it is a once-off item, non-repeatable even by you.

[SuchDragonWow]

Maker's Mark was a terrible idea.  I prefer Bulleit or Woodford Reserve.

[Riev]

Hmm.  I'm a little confused on the suggestion.

He's suggesting that at Master Level, maybe a Crafter can get something like "craft <x> into sword" and at the end, get an opened editor window to add in a sentence describing their mark, or just ~ out to make " a regular sword "

[Molten Heart]

.

[nauta]

Hmm.  I'm a little confused on the suggestion.

He's suggesting that at Master Level, maybe a Crafter can get something like "craft <x> into sword" and at the end, get an opened editor window to add in a sentence describing their mark, or just ~ out to make " a regular sword "

Oooo, like the sword etching guy in the Allanaki bazaar?  This would be a neat skill for master weaponmakers to get, yeah.

[Reiloth]

Hmm.  I'm a little confused on the suggestion.

Idea One: Can't you do this already?  In the submitted description, add whatever flourish you want -- e.g., a mark of two roses at the bottom of the super chair?

If we are talking about the code that prevents people outside your coded clan from using 'analyze' to get the recipe from an item, then I would think this would be something available to MMH at a suitably high level.  It'd make sense at the "Trading Company" or "Minor Merchant House" level.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Player-Created%20Clans

AFAIK, you can tell staff you want the item to be 'unique' in the sense that it is a once-off item, non-repeatable even by you.

Not mastercrafting a new item -- Making an item at 'Master Level' unlocking perks that differentiate 'Soandso's master sword with Dingdong's master sword.

[IntuitiveApathy]

Ideas are the lifeblood of innovation - if people don't suggest ideas, nothing new would come.  Please keep them coming!

With respect to this idea, I think it would be a great addition, and can't see what downside it would have (aside from whatever coding difficulties would be associated with bringing it to life).  It would be a great way for a crafter to further their reputation, and a neat way to leave a legacy in the world.

[Pale Horse]

A neat idea.

In some way this is already IG through the Value skill and how it allows you to see the House or region that the item came from.

Perhaps keep it at that?  No changes to the item's description (outside of one-time master crafted things), but when it's "valued" in place of "this item looks like it was crafted by House Dingdong" it says "this item has a maker's mark of a check mark."  You'd need to get your name out there for people to know that said mark is yours.

Restrict it to Master level crafters (as you've pointed out), but I'd take it a step further and say that if a Player wants this for their character, it should require a special app. and take up one of the few available for the year.  Or have some sort of fee payable to a Templar/Powers-that-be in your area.

Something like that.

[manipura]

Let me first say that as someone who quite enjoys the crafting side of the game, I like the idea of this idea.

However....

One issue, as Pale Horse touched on, is that it's sort of unrealistic to think that people far and wide across the world would know the maker's mark of an indie crafter in Storm, or a small group working out of a warehouse in Allanak.  If I (and the group I work with) am relatively unknown to anyone outside of my area, why would someone across the world who has managed to get their hands on an item I made suddenly think that this little design on it is a maker's mark, and why would they have any idea where in the world it originated or who created it in the first place?  Isn't it more likely that someone would see the checkmark or the two flowers or the two wavy lines over a circle and think it was just a decorative design?

Also, if this maker's mark is just a part of the mdesc, then any mastercrafter making the item in question is going to have the mark on the item.  If the original design came from a master level crafter who isn't in a coded clan, why would another crafter be putting the maker's mark on it, when they've figured out how to recreate another design?

[Reiloth]

Great questions, i'll address them one by one:

Let me first say that as someone who quite enjoys the crafting side of the game, I like the idea of this idea.

However....

One issue, as Pale Horse touched on, is that it's sort of unrealistic to think that people far and wide across the world would know the maker's mark of an indie crafter in Storm, or a small group working out of a warehouse in Allanak.

I agree -- I think the display of the 'maker's mark' should be in the last line of the mdesc. It should appear, seemlessly, as a part of the item. So, you have the 'yellow bladed chitin sword', and it's the description as usual, and at the end there is a sentence 'There is a marking of two flowers on the pommel'. To keep things interesting, you might even make it a command:
'>mark two flowers'
'>mark sword pommel'

In that way, you can decide where on the craft you would put your mark -- Maybe it's on the blade of a sword, or maybe the hilt. It doesn't need to be the same every time. Think of the command similar to 'seal' for scrolls.

If I (and the group I work with) am relatively unknown to anyone outside of my area, why would someone across the world who has managed to get their hands on an item I made suddenly think that this little design on it is a maker's mark, and why would they have any idea where in the world it originated or who created it in the first place?

I don't think they should -- I don't think the mark should be part of the assess command, or give you an idea of the location. It seeds a plot already -- You find a weapon that is super great, and you notice the mark at the bottom. What is that mark? You're down in Red Storm, and someone notices your blade..."Ah, that's Amos' crafty work". Who's Amos? Now you can find out. It shouldn't 'matter' to the every day people, but to craftsmen/women, and to GMH, and to people who have an eye for it, it's a way to track who's selling what. Consider also that the mark would be optional -- Something you can add to a piece, or choose not to.

Isn't it more likely that someone would see the checkmark or the two flowers or the two wavy lines over a circle and think it was just a decorative design?

Absolutely -- I can tell you that from a craftsman standpoint, you have a 'signature' or way of crafting things that other people can recognize. They're typically faults actually (or they're masterfully executed successes). In repair work, for instance, I can tell typically who's worked on something before because the industry is so small, it's either one of two or three people, and you can tell by the way something is glued (how they clamped it, what kind of glue they used) who did it and when, even. You develop an eye for it. However, that shit probably sounds completely esoteric to you, and would be beyond esoteric to a Zalanthan I think.

That being said, I do think that people in GMH and high-end indie merchants and the like would have that eye for marks and crafts.

Also, if this maker's mark is just a part of the mdesc, then any mastercrafter making the item in question is going to have the mark on the item.

Possibly, yes. But consider that it would only be attached to 'master' level skills (In an ideal world, you'd only be able to choose a few things to be 'master' in for a Merchant, so they aren't master Swordcrafters and Axecrafters and Armorcrafters and Wagon Part Crafters etc ,but that's another story). Furthermore, the 'mark' would be applied after the craft is complete, in a way similar to the 'seal' command, so it would be perfectly optional.

  If the original design came from a master level crafter who isn't in a coded clan, why would another crafter be putting the maker's mark on it, when they've figured out how to recreate another design?

I'm not sure I understand the question -- But I think it might be kind of hilarious of people could apply their own 'mark' to something after it's made, even if they didn't craft it. Actually sounds like a perfect plot for a GMH. Have some indie crafter offload goods to you for cheap and then slap your mark on it and upshot the price 200%.

[Miradus]

Allow for some symbol of style.

ass -v sword

It's a blah blah epic piece of weaponry that makes you a god of war.
It is too big to be sheathed on an inix.
You feel strong enough to use it.
It can be worn nowhere feasible that won't make you look like a tool.

Stamped on the hilt is a stylized beetle with an extremely large phallus.

Then you can ask around in game and find out who the master merchant with the beetle fetish is.

[Bahliker]

Related idea:

The intent is to make master crafted items more like unique, super high quality one-shot creations. The makers mark idea led me to this.

1: mastercraft becomes a command. A player can successfully use it once per month. Syntax is mastercraft [skill] [item1] [item2] [...]
2: after a short delay and skill check, the player enters an automated item generation menu similar to chargen. Player selects item type, sub type, descriptions, and has the option to add one "bonus" depending on the item type (+damage, -weight, +skill, +stamina, etc).
3: when completed, the system generates the item and it appears in the players inventory. Most stats are determined by the materials and item types, plus the bonuses selected. The items are automatically superior to standard items of the same type.
4: the system then creates a listing on a review tool for staff to be able to edit for typos and check for obvious abuse, with the option to delete the item and send the player a message explaining why. One click and done.

It's the players responsibility to rp the creation of the perfect, unique craft. Finding a flawless chunk of obsidian, carving intricate designs a tiny bit at a time. Heat treating or dying over and over by small incriments.

I believe the ability to amend a signature mark on player created items would feel more natural if players were able to create them more easily, and I believe taking most of the process out of staffs hands makes this possible.

If we aren't comfortable letting people write descriptions without prereview, the item could be in limbo until approved. Since the stat generation is pre-balanced, review means no more than checking for ooc crap and obvious abuse.

End idea. Remember, difficulty of implementation isn't part of the idea process as far as players are concerned. Let the gods decide that.

[manipura]

  If the original design came from a master level crafter who isn't in a coded clan, why would another crafter be putting the maker's mark on it, when they've figured out how to recreate another design?

I'm not sure I understand the question -- But I think it might be kind of hilarious of people could apply their own 'mark' to something after it's made, even if they didn't craft it. Actually sounds like a perfect plot for a GMH. Have some indie crafter offload goods to you for cheap and then slap your mark on it and upshot the price 200%.

Well I was basing my thought on the idea that the mdesc of a mastercrafted item would include the maker's mark.  So...

Code Select Expand

An elaborate item has been made out obsidian and bone. 
As expected...it looks better than anything else in game, because
usually people write their mastercrafts that way.  Upon closer inspection
the item actually doesn't look to be horribly functional, but man does it
look fancy.
Near the bottom of the fancy item is a design of two tiny flowers.

If this is Malik's item, and the two flowers is Malik's maker's mark...then it should only be Malik using the mark, right?
But if the mark is included in the mdesc, then anyone who makes it will be adding Malik's mark to it.

Unless you were thinking that after Malik made his item, then he would mark the finished item somehow (I think you actually suggested a mark command for this, which is sort of interesting) and it wouldn't be a part of the mdesc but rather an additional bit of info added to it. 
But then...would Malik want to be marking every single thing he made, to show it is his work? 
Is the maker's mark to mark Malik's work, or is it to mark the unique design that Malik created?

Edit: pretty sure I should have used a different name than Malik.  All this Malik made a maker's mark and marked his mdesc is like some silly tongue twister... 

[Armaddict]

I like the idea, but only as a command made on an item already crafted, as noted.

It would take some legwork, but I really do like the ideas of master crafters marking their goods.  That and the whole examination of a weapon that results in 'I made this blade.  Who the fuck are you?  Where'd you get it?' and 'I'm looking for the one who crafts this sort of thing.  Their mark is this.  I have a deal proposal for them, if they'll make me more.'

I think just editing it into a craftable is hard.  I think putting it into the mdesc defeats the purpose and makes it such a narrow range of use that it's not worth it.  But if there's a command to just start marking all your goods as the maker, there's some interest in being prolific with spreading around your goods.

[Lizzie]

I wouldn't mind seeing an "extra" description (like a tdesc) added to crafted items. You could even have the mark included as part of your character application, if you roll up either a Merchant main-guild, or a master-craft subguild.

And then, when you:

craft stone into vase

you could instead:
craft stone into vase with mark

And it'd automatically add your character's mark as a separate line on the bottom of the description.

A spiral design winds down and around this pot-bellied vase, doing
what vases do when they're not busy being something other than
a vase. Which is, obviously, never, because vases can't be gith or
skinny baobab twigs; however much they might like the idea.
A small green splotch is visible on the vase.

It'd always have the same text: %M is visible on %n.
So you wouldn't have to worry about exact placement, let the reader decide where on the vase they see it.

[a french mans shirt]

I want long-lived pc-run organizations and future city elf tribes to be able to put their mark on objects they make. When you use the assess command or whatever it is. All they have to do is send in an application for the tag and then future mastercrafts will be theirs.