Blackmoon: Stories, Reflections, Comments

[nauta]

I'd like to see both models at play: (1) you can make your own group (which is in play right now), but (2) you can also just roll up a raider out of chargen and pop into a bandit clan.

There are different play styles.  Sometimes you want to start from scratch and RP someone starting a bandit group.  But sometimes you just want to play a bandit!

[John]

For what it's worth, here's the old landing page to the blackmoon clan page (and the archived version).

[Armaddict]

There's a very good reason no one's ever been able to pull off a successful independent raiding gang since literally the start of armageddon. But by all means, my man, I encourage you and those saying how easy it is to actually attempt it. Show me and those other scrubs (some who had mulish karma) how wrong we've all been doing it.

The raiding group I was in with three to five members for about five months (I don't know about after that because I died) count?  What about the solo raider I played that was active around allanak for three months or so a few years back?  What about the raiding group that was based out of Red Storm in the past two years? I mean what's your standard of success here?  Are you saying that you have to achieve momentous things for it to count?  If so, I entirely disagree and think you're not really having failures occur, you're just expecting too much out of the role.

Edit:  I mean really?  Literally from the beginning of armageddon?  Never?  You really think in all this time, with my repeated allusions towards raiders I played, that none of them were ever self-started?  You encourage me to try?  You don't think I'm referring to my own experience when I tell you how it was vs how it is?

[nauta]

For what it's worth, here's the old landing page to the blackmoon clan page (and the archived version).

Very cool.  There's this too (linked from the first link):

http://old.armageddon.org/ic/blackmoon/bminfo.html

[mansa]

A large hooded figure arrives from the west

A large hooded figure subdues you!

A large hooded figure says "drop pack"

>remove pack
You can't, you're subdued!

A large hooded figure says "drop pack"

>remove pack
You can't, you're subdued!

A large hooded figure says "drop pack"

Another large hooded figure hits you on your head, knocking you out!



....

I played a blackmoon raider who got joined Borsail Wyverns and eventually became Corporal in the ranks, with a recruiter flag and all.  Corporal Bal.  He was caught by a red robed templar and killed in the jails.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I have some very fond memories of Blackmoon. They were a very cool clan that added a lot, imo. I had a Borsail noble in Tuluk (Silverwood) who was assassinated by them. I also played several members of the clan and had some great times both raiding and just sitting around a fire BSing.

Good times!

[IntuitiveApathy]

I never played in the Blackmoon myself, but even just their presence in the game world inspired fear and caution and an ever-present antagonist (even if they weren't present!) that anyone had to be wary of, no matter where in the gameworld they were since they had free reign to raid anywhere, at any time.  Everyone knew that they could suddenly become their victims, that they had the strength and wherewithal to back it up.  I agree with the sentiment that this sort of thing is sorely missing in today's Zalanthas - the recent gith threat was something, but given that I believe they were essentially isolated geographically to a specific locale, it never felt like they were really antagonists unless you were already living where they were, or went to where they were (and if you did, you might've been pretty stupid?).

My most memorable encounter with the Blackmoon was with a character that was a magicker, and had taken the gem.  This character hired the Byn for an escort from Nak to Tuluk since nobody wanted to get raided or worse, because that threat was serious and ever-present due to the Blackmoon in substantial part.  So off my gicker went, with a good contingent of hired shitcloaks as escort, and things were mostly quiet and smooth, until they hit the span.  Just after, the Blackmoon came upon us, and there was a great Mexican standoff on the road.  The Blackmoon weren't stupid - they had similar numbers to the Bynners, and they were about to let us pass until one of them happened to catch sight of my character's gem.  I believe the Blackmoon had a beef against gickers, or maybe just their leader at the time, because as soon as they caught sight they demanded the Byn turn my character over.  The Byn Sergeant though, one broken-nosed Sergeant Iltrin decided that well, that wouldn't be so good for his reputation, and so refused to turn my gicker over.  There was a stare-down, and then all hell broke loose when my character, fearing the worst, decided to take matters into hand and began magicks aimed at their leader..

It was a tense, thrilling scene, that was only really possible because the Blackmoon existed, and played their role admirably.  I hope we see something like them again.

[nauta]

... until they hit the span.  Just after, the Blackmoon came upon us, and there was a great Mexican standoff on the road.

Chokepoints!  These are so useful for a successful bandit (that wants to rely on a little more than the goodwill of the victim.)

The south doesn't really have any.  I love the Tablelands and the Volcano Region (including the Span) for just this reason.  Of course, nowadays zero PCs go to Tuluk and something approaching 0 go to Morin's.  I wish you could take the terrain diversity of the north, strip all the pretty things from it, and slap it in the south: rugged cliffs, chokepoints, dangerous pits, climbable buttes, twisting ridges, steppes, volcanos.

[Synthesis]

I never got anything but the 'drop pack' and 'Bushman arrow to the neck' treatment from the Blackmoon, so I was never particularly impressed.

[Armaddict]

I never got anything but the 'drop pack' and 'Bushman arrow to the neck' treatment from the Blackmoon, so I was never particularly impressed.

Impressed or not, I assume it made you similarly wary of fellow travelers in the wilds like me, which I think is the real boon to the thing.

[LoD]

My first memory of Black Moon raiders were in the form of NPC's that raided along the North Road outside of Tuluk -- there were elves, half-elves and many of them had "raider" as part of their sdesc because they must've been just...standing in threatening raideresque poses all day.   The descriptions of these NPC's all had the symbol of black moon on them.

After some time, the Black Moon was opened for play as a clan, and I don't remember any particular encounters with them on other characters, but I do remember hearing stories of them and mentions of the "leader of the Black Moon" out and about.  Though this was just the current figurehead and not the actual leader, it did lend an interesting element to the dangers of the wild desert and the denizens you may encounter.

I eventually decided to apply a character for the Black Moon raiders, whom was just a brand new character like any other, that most people came to know as Bushman or Sandman.

Whom they met would largely depend on what persona I was trying to front.  Bushman was the name the Black Moon Raiders gave me, since I was a ranger and often roamed the wilderness looking for people out and about.  He was also rumored to be particularly blood-thirsty, and I did have some reoccurring encounters with Synthesis (hey buddy) and others during my tenure, but I hope that his recounting of those encounters wasn't the standard for most people.  Peopled tended to remember arrows in the neck, and I don't pretend that he didn't get a fair share of them, but I would have to argue that it was likely because that was the most routine option he presented to me.

My goal with playing Bushman, and with playing a Black Moon raider at all, was not to have a chance to kill players or to create a sense of danger through wanton murder or meaningless combat, but to provide a competent and intelligent non-magickal threat to the wilds.

For those that are interested, I'd like to talk about my general overall strategy and then a few fun stories of encounters I had over that time.

My day would generally begin with me leaving the Black Moon base and either heading south toward Allanak or north toward Luir's.  Once I reached the gates, I would hunt the area and see if I could find any signs of travelers, either visually or through their tracks.  Once I found someone, I would follow them around and observe them for a while -- always conscious of my mount's various stamina, distances to safe havens and my surroundings.

My most common encounter would begin with me riding into the same room as the person I was following.  When we traveled as a group, this was accompanied by half-giants grabbing you, muls guarding the exits and someone shouting, "Submit to the Black Moon Raiders or DIE!", but I took a different approach when I traveled by myself.  I wanted them to have a chance to role-play a scene of being raided, but combat generally removes the subtle nuances and fun of those encounters.  Spam fleeing does, as well, but that reaction is partly telling me that I am doing a good job being threatening (success!).

Those that didn't simply spam flee from me the moment they saw me would generally be approached in a friendly and casual manner.  A brief chat about the weather, the hunt, what the person is doing.  Eventually that dialogue would lead to the point that "traveling out in these sand can be dangerous work, and a fellow like yourself could probably use some protection."  Most people understood the shakedown that was happening, but I was always amused by the newer players that would say things like, "I just need wrist guards...I can't find any."

Honestly, from my perspective, as long as the person was willing to give me something...anything...some coins, their boots, one of their weapons, some kind of concession that allowed them to be "raided" and submit to that -- I not only wasn't going to hurt them, but I probably WOULD have helped them if I encountered them again and it was convenient for me to do so.  Unfortunately, about 9 out of 10 people just told me to suck it and ran for the gates.

Enter arrows to the neck.

I won't lie.  I killed more PC's with Bushman/Sandman than with all of the rest of my Arm characters put together.  It wasn't because I was blood-thirsty or loved ending people's characters, but mostly because the player just didn't want to be raided and I was playing the role of consequence in the poor decision of their character.  The desert should be dangerous to more than the newer players that don't understand the mechanics of desert movement and its various NPC and automated threats.  They should have to contend with intelligent threats from time to time and be forced to sometimes NOT win those encounters.  It makes it unpredictable and challenging, and that often makes it fun.

Since most people would just run from me, I had to devise a few tactics to get them out of the city and bring them to me.  So, here are a few stories of my more favorite tactics/moment.

Lone Kank.

Riding a couple of rooms west of the main gates of Allanak, I would rest mount kank and then hide behind it.  And wait.  Invariably, someone coming to the gates at dawn would look west and see a lone kank standing there.  Not just standing there, but resting.  A resting kank and no one in sight could either mean that its owner was fighting something and had to flee (opportunity!) or that its owner was dead (opportunity and maybe free stuff!) OR that Bushman was hiding in the room waiting for you to show up.  Ha-HA sucka!  Gotcha!

This, at least, generally allowed me to say ONE sentence before the spam fleeing started.

Path of Shards

Up in Tuluk, west of the gate was too close to the city and too widely traveled for the lone kank to be as effective.  I needed them to be slightly tired and out of their element before having our initial conversation.  So, I would spend some time foraging those little shards of agate, quartz and such and then leave little trails on the ground as such.

> drop shard on the ground, pointing west.

> west

> drop shard on the ground, pointing north.

> north

> drop shard on the ground, pointing west.

> west

And THEN I would hide and wait for someone to follow my trail of raidery bread crumbs to our first conversation.  Again, this usually resulted in spam fleeing, but at least I got to have some fun with it and I always imagined their surprise when they showed up to that kind of encounter.  Surviving in the wilderness is hard work, even for accomplished players, so having a threat that can maintain some sense of consistency is both a challenge and a great rewards (I think for both raider and victim alike).

The Draw

Sometimes the raided masses would rally the troops and enlist some type of champion, usually in the form of a more accomplished House employee, whom would gather up packs of 4-5 players and go scouting around for me, but run and hide in the city when it was ever one-on-one.  Occasionally I wanted these people to know they weren't safe, so I would wait until they were sitting in and Inn or Tavern and then shout, "Hurry!  There's a man at the gate dying and needs help!  Please help!"

I would then wind through the crowds and get back a coupe of leagues out from the gate and watch until said person came to investigate the hurt person (because it's something to do), and then give them a couple of poisoned arrows for their trouble.  Not usually enough to kill them, just enough to scare them and make them afraid within the safe walls of their city.

Help!

One of my favorite moments was when we were traveling around as a group and we set up north of Luir's.  I sat on the road by myself guarding the northern direction, while the rest of the group hung out just off the road watching for someone to enter.  This went on for quite a while, however, so I eventually decided to go into Luir's and see if I could draw someone out.  I dismounted and walked into the output and found one person siting at the bar.  I walked over to the person and frantically told them that my travel companion was mortally wounded and I couldn't carry them any farther, and asked for them to help me.

They were suspicious, but I told them exactly where they were and pleaded my guts out for them to help.  I might've cried a little.

They eventually agreed and came with me.  When we reached the area in question, the chorus of raiders ran in from the east and shouted and guarded and subdued. "SUBMIT TO THE BLACK MOON RAIDERS OR DIE!"  The guys says, "No, wait, I'm here to help!"

The Camp

Probably one of the most daring raids we attempted was on a noble traveling north from Allanak to Luir's Outpost.  We heard from one of our city spies that this retinue was heading out from the outpost with some Byn guarding them.  We happened to have a large tent as well as a lot of militia cloaks, so we set up camp along the road south of Luir's and tried our best to make it look like some templar or important city person was traveling and camped on the road.  It was probably the only way to safely lure people into the room.  All of the others were hiding in the tent and ready to spring when the noble arrived.  And it had to be convincing enough that they would just ride into the room rather than send a scout to check the tent.

Well, said party arrived and they must've thought we looked official, because they all just rode on up.

"SUBMIT TO THE BLACK MOON RAIDERS OR DIE!"  TENT STYLE!

The Group Shakedown

Probably one of the my favorite solo moments was shaking down an entire group of Byn wandering around outside of Allanak.  I saw them moving between Red Storm and Alllanak and decided to saunter up and shake them down.  Knowing that most of them were likely newer players led by a Sergeant, I wanted to give them a good chance to enjoy the scene.  I casually chatted them up and then went into my normal schpiel about the deserts being dangerous and folks needing protection.  I enjoyed the subtle threats that were exchanged between myself and the Sergeant. 

He may have been able to get a lucky subdue on me, and I may have died.  But Runners, man, they're skittish and slow.

On the other hand, I was QUITE sure that I could turn his head into a porcupine and likely poison a few of his compatriots before they got to the safety of a gate on foot in the desert.  The Byn Sergeant did the smart thing and paid me my due, and it helped both the legacy of the raiders as well as the fun of the game, and only cost a few coins.  No deaths.

I honestly tried pretty hard NOT to kill people when I played Bushman/Sandman, but some people just didn't want to give in and that was a choice.  It was surprising how many people wanted to choose violence over handing me their boots, but that was the point -- I wanted there to be some hard choices out in the desert that had nothing to do with predictable NPCs, overpowered magickers or requiring some kind of Imm-driven RP Event.

On the whole, I feel like I/we were successful in accomplishing the task that I had for myself.  It was a fun time and an interesting experience, and I'm glad to hear that while they may not all have been positive, that at least the encounters were memorable. And I didn't have personal grudges toward anyone.  I just cared about you.

Because, after all, the world is a dangerous place...and you look like you could use a little protection.

-LoD

[Reiloth]

https://youtu.be/s6TY1SRABes

Suh LoD?

[Riev]

I'm thankful that LoD provided some "Here's what you could do!" scenarios for people to try an emulate in the future (that hopefully did not read this thread).

Unfortunately what I got from it was "NPC clan that staff opened up to PCs". Not "Bunch of PCs got together and did something great".

[nauta]

My goal with playing Bushman, and with playing a Black Moon raider at all, was not to have a chance to kill players or to create a sense of danger through wanton murder or meaningless combat, but to provide a competent and intelligent non-magickal threat to the wilds.

[...]

The desert should be dangerous to more than the newer players that don't understand the mechanics of desert movement and its various NPC and automated threats.  They should have to contend with intelligent threats from time to time and be forced to sometimes NOT win those encounters.  It makes it unpredictable and challenging, and that often makes it fun.

Thank you for sharing.  I'm so incredibly jealous.  I also liked this quote.

[Synthesis]

It's funny how when someone who's outside the cool-kids club creates a petty nuisance, everyone is like "OMG fuckin' fuck twinks," but when someone inside the cool-kids club does it, it's like "WHOAAAA, GOOD JOB DUDE A+."

[LoD]

I'm thankful that LoD provided some "Here's what you could do!" scenarios for people to try an emulate in the future (that hopefully did not read this thread).

Unfortunately what I got from it was "NPC clan that staff opened up to PCs". Not "Bunch of PCs got together and did something great".

I would argue that it was exactly a bunch of PC's coming together and doing something great.  There was 0 Immortal intervention or assistance other than providing the coded lair for us to use so that we weren't trying to raid out of a city-state.  Everything we worked toward and accomplished was done through player motivation, effort and execution.  It went from a generic NPC threat represented by nothing more than a handful of NPC's on the road to a living, breathing entity that was interacting with the game world around it in a completely organic way.

As others have mentioned, without a base of operations that is outside the easy grasp of the powers-that-be, it is very difficult to maintain an entity that makes enemies of so many people.  And while it began as an NPC clan without any PCs that were opened to players, I don't feel it diminishes at all what was accomplished and the experiences that were generated from the play of both those players and of all of those with whom we interacted.  We recruited at least two players that did not start in the clan and probably more, but that was difficult because we had to trust those players not to divulge IC information that was fairly crucial to the clan's survival.

In the end, we had nothing in way of coded advantages or perks other than what most city-based players take for granted - a sanctuary.

-LoD

[LoD]

It's funny how when someone who's outside the cool-kids club creates a petty nuisance, everyone is like "OMG fuckin' fuck twinks," but when someone inside the cool-kids club does it, it's like "WHOAAAA, GOOD JOB DUDE A+."

Just a few characters before Bushman, I was told by Nessalin that I had one more chance to play a character before he banned me from the game for being a twink.  I chose the merchant class, because it had the least amount of skills to abuse (and no crafting system at the time).  I'm not sure the "cool-kids club" is something to which I've belonged.  I had my moments of bad RP and bad decisions and stupidity, the same as many of us.

There's definitely a fine line when you chose the role of antagonist, and it often invites criticism and accusations of twinkery because it's difficult to pose a credible threat without any power to make good on it, and it's difficult to develop that power without using your skills frequently, and it's sometimes difficult to use your skills frequently without some people thinking of you as a twink.

Some people tend to find better ways to manage that than others, I'd wager.  I'd also argue that a very common trap people fall into is when they have a vision for a character that has a certain level of coded power as the character they want to play.  That isn't the role that they begin playing, however, and the race to close that gap is sometimes what tends to encourage people to making decisions or exhibiti behavior that gets them labeled poorly.  I've certainly been guilty of that in my past.

-LoD

[Synthesis]

It's funny how when someone who's outside the cool-kids club creates a petty nuisance, everyone is like "OMG fuckin' fuck twinks," but when someone inside the cool-kids club does it, it's like "WHOAAAA, GOOD JOB DUDE A+."

Just a few characters before Bushman, I was told by Nessalin that I had one more chance to play a character before he banned me from the game for being a twink.  I chose the merchant class, because it had the least amount of skills to abuse (and no crafting system at the time).  I'm not sure the "cool-kids club" is something to which I've belonged.  I had my moments of bad RP and bad decisions and stupidity, the same as many of us.

There's definitely a fine line when you chose the role of antagonist, and it often invites criticism and accusations of twinkery because it's difficult to pose a credible threat without any power to make good on it, and it's difficult to develop that power without using your skills frequently, and it's sometimes difficult to use your skills frequently without some people thinking of you as a twink.

Some people tend to find better ways to manage that than others, I'd wager.  I'd also argue that a very common trap people fall into is when they have a vision for a character that has a certain level of coded power as the character they want to play.  That isn't the role that they begin playing, however, and the race to close that gap is sometimes what tends to encourage people to making decisions or exhibiti behavior that gets them labeled poorly.  I've certainly been guilty of that in my past.

-LoD

Don't worry, it wasn't an attack on you, and it wasn't an observation based on your status as a player at the time.

It's an observation about the hindsight view from other players (now that you've got GDB RP guru cred) that what you were doing was "so COOL and INTERESTING," when it fundamentally was no different than what every other twink in the game was doing at the time.

It's so funny how tribalistic thought-processes work.  "It's okay when he does it, because he's one of us, and he really gets it."  The reality of the situation is that it doesn't matter how well a mundane raider PC emotes or stays in character...everyone is going to be butt-hurt about it ICly and OOCly.  The reality of the situation is that the Blackmoon weren't cool or interesting to anyone but themselves.  For everyone else, they were just a bunch of deplorable twinks, even though I guarantee you every other nuisance twink player out there was like, "yeah, I'm gonna rustle some jimmies and make the desert dangerous," not "lol pk powerlord i'mma dominate."

Basically the same goals.  The same methods used to git gud.  Wildly different hindsight views, based on current perceived RP in-crowdness.  Y'all can either a) make excuses or b) acknowledge your biases.

[nauta]

It's funny how when someone who's outside the cool-kids club creates a petty nuisance, everyone is like "OMG fuckin' fuck twinks," but when someone inside the cool-kids club does it, it's like "WHOAAAA, GOOD JOB DUDE A+."

Just a few characters before Bushman, I was told by Nessalin that I had one more chance to play a character before he banned me from the game for being a twink.  I chose the merchant class, because it had the least amount of skills to abuse (and no crafting system at the time).  I'm not sure the "cool-kids club" is something to which I've belonged.  I had my moments of bad RP and bad decisions and stupidity, the same as many of us.

There's definitely a fine line when you chose the role of antagonist, and it often invites criticism and accusations of twinkery because it's difficult to pose a credible threat without any power to make good on it, and it's difficult to develop that power without using your skills frequently, and it's sometimes difficult to use your skills frequently without some people thinking of you as a twink.

Some people tend to find better ways to manage that than others, I'd wager.  I'd also argue that a very common trap people fall into is when they have a vision for a character that has a certain level of coded power as the character they want to play.  That isn't the role that they begin playing, however, and the race to close that gap is sometimes what tends to encourage people to making decisions or exhibiti behavior that gets them labeled poorly.  I've certainly been guilty of that in my past.

-LoD

Don't worry, it wasn't an attack on you, and it wasn't an observation based on your status as a player at the time.

Who are you talking about and how on earth is this relevant to the thread and its topic, Synthesis?  I'm so tired of negative derails.  If you don't have anything to contribute to the content of the thread, don't -- it's against the forum rules; a minori if you don't have anything positive to contribute, but that's not a forum rule, it's just common sense.

Start your own thread if you'd like to talk about in-crowds and twinks.

[Reiloth]

I agree with Code Guru.

I also appreciate RP Gurus perspective. I think it nicely answers the OP.

Also Code Gurus observations I think are accurate. I don't think raiders have the point of view of destructive ooc think gonna killm all. I think they often wish to present an atagonistic presence with RP first, but will always be labeled a twink if they interact with pretty much anyone in any antagonistic fashion.

Having a clan devoted to this leads to the clan being mislabeled as a spawning ground for twinky meta gamers. While I don't think that way, apparently many others do. This also stems from the "loss of trust in fellow players" that I find so bummerific.

[LauraMars]

It's an observation about the hindsight view from other players (now that you've got GDB RP guru cred) that what you were doing was "so COOL and INTERESTING," when it fundamentally was no different than what every other twink in the game was doing at the time.

But [Synthesis] looked back, and [he] became a pillar of salt. - Genesis 19:26

[solera]

I think Synth's comments are fair enough, as the thread title does include comments. Blackmon is an example relevant to several current threads, and seems to tie them together nicely.

[Lutagar]

Who are you talking about and how on earth is this relevant to the thread and its topic, Synthesis?  I'm so tired of negative derails.  If you don't have anything to contribute to the content of the thread, don't -- it's against the forum rules; a minori if you don't have anything positive to contribute, but that's not a forum rule, it's just common sense.

Start your own thread if you'd like to talk about in-crowds and twinks.

Justified or not, it was his REFLECTION on black-moon. He's COMMENTING that he felt it was more acceptable for them to be doing things other players couldn't.

If you're not going to try and counter argue the point he was trying to make, then you should probably leave the moderation to the moderators, since we're more guilty of derailing than anyone.

Back on topic: these stories are awesome and I really wish we had some active raiding clan going at the moment.

[Synthesis]

It's funny how when someone who's outside the cool-kids club creates a petty nuisance, everyone is like "OMG fuckin' fuck twinks," but when someone inside the cool-kids club does it, it's like "WHOAAAA, GOOD JOB DUDE A+."

Just a few characters before Bushman, I was told by Nessalin that I had one more chance to play a character before he banned me from the game for being a twink.  I chose the merchant class, because it had the least amount of skills to abuse (and no crafting system at the time).  I'm not sure the "cool-kids club" is something to which I've belonged.  I had my moments of bad RP and bad decisions and stupidity, the same as many of us.

There's definitely a fine line when you chose the role of antagonist, and it often invites criticism and accusations of twinkery because it's difficult to pose a credible threat without any power to make good on it, and it's difficult to develop that power without using your skills frequently, and it's sometimes difficult to use your skills frequently without some people thinking of you as a twink.

Some people tend to find better ways to manage that than others, I'd wager.  I'd also argue that a very common trap people fall into is when they have a vision for a character that has a certain level of coded power as the character they want to play.  That isn't the role that they begin playing, however, and the race to close that gap is sometimes what tends to encourage people to making decisions or exhibiti behavior that gets them labeled poorly.  I've certainly been guilty of that in my past.

-LoD

Don't worry, it wasn't an attack on you, and it wasn't an observation based on your status as a player at the time.

Who are you talking about and how on earth is this relevant to the thread and its topic, Synthesis?  I'm so tired of negative derails.  If you don't have anything to contribute to the content of the thread, don't -- it's against the forum rules; a minori if you don't have anything positive to contribute, but that's not a forum rule, it's just common sense.

Start your own thread if you'd like to talk about in-crowds and twinks.

My comments aren't a derail.  I'm telling you:  it doesn't matter how well-played mundane, non-staff-supported raiders may be, the contemporary consensus is going to be "omg twinks," except among the players who are playing raiders together, where it will be backslaps and high-fives.  What people are doing with LoD in particular is just a symptom of a larger disease:  i.e. rosy hindsight.  That, mixed with GDB cred and in-group adulation.  If I posted stories about all the times I raided people, it would be dismissed as twinkery and trying to "win Armageddon," regardless of how well I attempted to articulate my motives, because I'm not part of an in-crowd that gets the benefit of the doubt.  LoD does it, and the immediate response is "so cool."  Of course, pointing this out is just outrageous trolling, obviously (cf: making excuses).  HOW DARE I QUESTION YOUR COMPLETE OBJECTIVENESS AND NEUTRAL LOGICAL PROCESSING.

The reason that the staff have largely done away with or stopped supporting antagonistic groups like this is that NOBODY REALLY LIKES IT (except the players who are doing it), despite occasional protestations to the contrary.  It generates a ton of OOC butt-hurt, and when players get butt-hurt OOC, they start doing shitty things IC to try to avoid that butt-hurt.  Nobody says, "Wow, that arrow to the neck was SUPER SCARY, this desert wasteland shit is SO REAL."  They say, "Man, fuck this fucking guy...how many stilt lizards did he have to lob stones at to get his archery skill that high? I'll show him...my next PC is gonna be a d-elf ranger and I'm going to intentionally pick a fight with him (once my archery is maxed by turaal-stoning) and get all my clannies in on it."

[BadSkeelz]

We're all twinks at some point or another.

Was the pike-using dwarf named Abuzor (who single-handidly killed one iteration of the Red Fangs) a Blackmoon? I've heard an account of his exploit (no pun intended) and it's worth a chuckle.