Jobs of Zalanthas - aka things you spam for coins

[nauta]

My two cents re: salting) Even before the locations were put further out, I found the introduction of scorpions to be a mild-to-midling turnoff, especially because for a while (perhaps fixed?) the purported cure didn't seem to work (or only worked sometimes) -- and the duration of their poison required a lot of downtime.

Re gong-farming/dungscraping) Once or twice I've wanted to actually purchase dung (for cookfires) and couldn't find PCs.  Be neat if Jal also sold dung.

[Reiloth]

You can still forage for salt. The deposits are a nice addition too, because some of the types of salt can be more rare (and desirable) but sitting around hacking at a deposit all day long has middling results.

I find the danger inherent with jobs that require you to be outside of the city -- Salting can lead to interaction, be it with PC or NPC threats, as well as the threat of dehydration, weather conditions, and so on.

Spice sifting is similarly very dangerous, unless you are a Mul. And if you're a Mul that's a warrior without direction sense, you will get fucked one day by a storm. Beetles, storms...It's a very Zalanthan job. In fact, the hopelessness of finding 150 grains to turn in is like...The epitome of ArmageddonMUD to me. I love playing a Red Stormer for that very reason. You feel like the bottom end cog, and when you see people sniffing pinches or smoking you're like...Fuck me.

Clay/Cotton/Dung Sweeping and Picking...The mindless aspect of this is what drives me away from pursuing these jobs as an Indy. The lack of chance interaction or danger turns it into a grind. The only recommendation i'd have here is to put the locations of these sites in contentious areas -- Not necessarily inside of the Labyrinth, but perhaps near it? Or to have areas rotate, or chances of finding/pulling up little nasty NPCs.



As to new jobs, i'd just like to see Caravans. Automated wagons, with the OOC caveat that PC Raiders understand they can't steal the wagons (it's just too game breaking, let's just say the locks are impossible to pick and the doors impossible to break down). They can however hold a wagon up, and rob the people inside if it is poorly guarded. Let's say there's always a pair of beefy NPC guards, and they're sentinel so they can't just be shot at from outside the wagon.

Creating a dynamic series of jobs -- People can be hired to guard the Caravan (with a maximum quota of say three PCs). People can pay for passage, either in the lower deck or higher deck (depending on their money, or even on their status (if they are a part of a House or GMH). People can be hired to be a server (more on this below).

Caravans leave twice a RL day, once in the EST morning and once in the EST evening, to start, it goes from Allanak to Luirs, Luirs to Morins, Morins to Luirs, and Luirs to Allanak. See if this works, if so, maybe offer smaller caravan choices to Blackwing and Cenyr, more dangerous.



People have been curious as to a PC job as a server at a tavern. My thought is -- What if a PC (one PC at a time) could be hired by the Bartender to help them tend bar. They would then for all intents and purposes become an animated NPC -- They would become the Shop List for the tavern, so when people come in and type 'list', it has this PC serving for the bar. All of the money goes to the actual Bartender NPC. You can't leave the bar without ending your shift.

If people try to list from the bartender, they say they're too busy and to ask 'sdesc' over there'. It would be a timed shift (say a RL hour), and the PC could end the shift by typing 'end shift'. At the end of their shift, the bartender gives them a flat % of the objects they sold, with a minimum (say 50 coins). So a popular server at a tavern could bring in more money by having their friends come by and buy drinks (realistic) or on a slow night, they make the minimum and call it a day. Maybe the minimum can't be reached unless you do the whole shift.

Perhaps status comes into effect -- You can't serve a shift at Red's Retreat unless you're a member of the Atrium, or someone of at least a modicum of status. But you can do a shift at the Gaj, even if you're a Bynner. You can't serve a shift at the Folley unless you're a member of the Guild. You can't serve a shift at the elf bar, unless you are an elf, etc.

[Jihelu]

The new method of salting basically requires you to have a mount.
Which I'm not necessarily against, I don't play elves so not for that reason, but fuck mounts.

[Culinary Critic]

Deposit hacking can be absolutely ridiculous, but most especially because the Mine's Pockets seem to be deeper than they used to be.
Salting is still good coin, but definitely not the "I just made 10,000 coins last year doing a thoroughly boring chore".
Clay, I only did in Tuluk, and was hardly ever worth it. Couldn't afford the water you'd waste after a day in there.

I think if anything were to be changed, it would be to make every job's "output" be monetarily worthwhile to crafters. Like cotton in Tuluk... you could get paid per boll, but if you wanted to keep it, you'd be charged... and then could charge -more- to a PC that wanted to be a spinster. With clay, some PCs would want that fresh wet clay. Obsidian mining, only at times and for limited use, glass so far as I know is just vendor trash. Dung could be dried for firestuffs but otherwise, its also vendor trash.

I like the jobs, especially when people don't need to leave the city but ARE stuck doing a thoroughly gross job just to get by. I'd just rather there be two avenues: Either sell to an NPC for a low level of coin and be relatively limited, or sell to PCs who might actually -want- those resources and will pay as much or more than the NPC so they don't have to spend a day getting it themselves.

Could you explain more on the Deposit hacking?  Are you meaning that it's easier to get coins from it?

Haven't read past page one, but totally agree with this.

With deposits of glass/sid (particularly glass) being findable really, really, REALLY close to the gates of Nak, it is REALLY easy for a PC with advanced+ forage skill to make far too much coin for a true commoner in little time.  Yes, it takes a long while to get forage there, but the work in grinding it easily keeps one fed, watered, housed and whored for the duration.  Having to travel to sid deposits out in the sand makes the risk higher and helps justify the reward.


Otherwise, I've not had much (any) experience with the new skinning code, but hunting/foraging has always seemed a good risk/reward balance from what I've seen.

[Lizzie]

I really like the idea of turning in items for a return of another item, rather than coins.  This is actually something we've talked about staff side, it's actually really exciting to see others bring this idea up.  Would you think this could be used for multiple of the jobs out there?  I personally look at the existing jobs not as a constant source of coins, but a great place for someone getting started to make coins.  Just thowring this out there, but maybe the Allanak "Jobs" give a chit for your work, and you turn the chit in for food, water, tools, or maybe some coins, but you'd get a reduced amount of coins, the value of it would be from the objects you could get.  Do you think that could work?  (Idea here, doesn't mean it will happen )

It could be used for multiple jobs, however I don't think it should be a 100% trade deal. People need spending cash so they can buy a round of ale for their pals at the bar, or impress the person they're wooing by buying them a gift at a shop or from a PC merchant, save up for a mount, save up to pay the 225-sid rent on their cheapo apartment, etc. etc. They need sids for that. They don't need to get rich, but they do need pocket change, at the very least. That's why I'm saying bonuses. They'd still get paid in sids, but they'd also get a bonus if they bring OVER a certain max.

For instance (hypothetical):
2 sids per lump of clay.
Make the max 60 lumps.
If they bring in a full bag, they get 150 sids (at 2 sids per) plus they can fill any one waterskin from empty to full. Grey water, but cheap. One bag-bonus per digger, per game-day.

Spice: 4 sids per grain.
At the current rate of acquisition vs. reward, make the max 50 grains.
If they get more than 50-75 grains in the same delivery, give them the 4 sids each - so 200 sids.. plus a free waterskin refill. If they get 76-100 grains, they get the 4 sids per grain, plus a free waterskin refill, plus one siltfruit, and one half-price jug of spiced ale at the bar. Over 100 sids, they get all that, plus the jug of ale is free.

Or sure, they could trade in their "bonuses" for "store credits." That way vivaduans, friends of vivaduans, and clanned folks who get their waterskins filled free anyway, wouldn't roll their eyes at the bonuses. They could get something else instead if they'd prefer, of equal value (like a single mug of ale, or a mini kalan tart, or similar).

[Jihelu]

If you could get tokens that would get you something fancy but not too fancy, something like a silt fruit but more nakki, that'd be cool a f.

Maybe if you sell a certain amount of obsidian or glass to the templar over the course of your life you get a fancy token, like purple salts at a certain vendor, and after x tokens you get a better pick axe or maybe a fancy pickaxe.
Maybe even a patch.
Just for funsies.


I'd prefer fancy fruits tho.

[evilcabbage]

lizzie you get the hell away from my spice sifting you evil cat, that's already dangerous and already doesn't pay a whole lot of money even with 50 grains.

no. just no. spice sifting takes forever, it's generally an all day task to fill 50 grains up, and you run the risk of a) being raided, b) having random silt beasts murdering you, or c*) a fuck you sandstorm rolling in.

spice sifting doesn't need looking at. other things definitely do. like salting, apparently. what's the deal with that?

and glass mining. glass should NOT spawn right outside the city gates, that's just insane. it really shouldn't even spawn in the south anymore, it should be spawning up north. because volcano. and heat.


* only if not a ranger.

[Jihelu]

lizzie you get the hell away from my spice sifting you evil cat, that's already dangerous and already doesn't pay a whole lot of money even with 50 grains.

no. just no. spice sifting takes forever, it's generally an all day task to fill 50 grains up, and you run the risk of a) being raided, b) having random silt beasts murdering you, or c*) a fuck you sandstorm rolling in.

spice sifting doesn't need looking at. other things definitely do. like salting, apparently. what's the deal with that?

and glass mining. glass should NOT spawn right outside the city gates, that's just insane. it really shouldn't even spawn in the south anymore, it should be spawning up north. because volcano. and heat.


* only if not a ranger.

There used to be a volcano near nak.

[Lizzie]

lizzie you get the hell away from my spice sifting you evil cat, that's already dangerous and already doesn't pay a whole lot of money even with 50 grains.

no. just no. spice sifting takes forever, it's generally an all day task to fill 50 grains up, and you run the risk of a) being raided, b) having random silt beasts murdering you, or c*) a fuck you sandstorm rolling in.

spice sifting doesn't need looking at. other things definitely do. like salting, apparently. what's the deal with that?

and glass mining. glass should NOT spawn right outside the city gates, that's just insane. it really shouldn't even spawn in the south anymore, it should be spawning up north. because volcano. and heat.


* only if not a ranger.

What are you going on about? Did you even read my post or are you just role-playing on the GDB again? I said my idea would involve BONUSES. That means - you get what you already get for sifting spice. That doesn't change. But if you get MORE than a certain amount, you ALSO get a non-coin bonus.

So instead of getting 200 sids for ( x ) amount of spice, you get 200 sids AND a free skin of water.

[a french mans shirt]

I didn't read all these posts, but two things I've found are pretty coin-grabby for the risk.

Finding glass deposits two leagues outside the city. (which like ten people have said.)

Mining basalt for gems that it easily drops. (This might have been changed recently. But for a few RL days, you were finding gobs of high-end gems.)

Tailoring I'd forgive because otherwise no one would ever get their hands on a skimmer.

[Ath]

So lets focus on Salting... more so I am talking about current Salting, after the new changes that were put in.  Why do you not use Salting now?  Would you rather it was back the way it was before?  If we had it like before, how would you suggest we change it so people are not walking away with a large in 'sid each time?  Is Salting too dangerous compared to the rewards now?  Can a Solo newbie survive off of salting right now, how about a Solo Veteran?

So attempting to get this back on topic... I asked about Salting.  At the moment I have no need for information on "new", so anything you are providing, while I do appreciate the information, I have no need for and won't be using it.

[Inks]

Salting is good as is now. I tried it on a pc and you could still make good coin, but the risk was higher due to raider/ scrab/mek chances, definately not a macro semi-afk task like it potentially totally used to be.

You can still make easy coin but the risk is always present now and would be unwise to salt without a mount, I very much appreciate the change.

[gotdamnmiracle]

I have done the new version of salting in passing. I think the main issue is that it's a hike for PCs without mounts. If you have a mount you can essentially travel half the Known in one stent, but if you are trying to play a more city centric character it kind of became impossible to wander out to the salt and pick away at it before wandering back in the late afternoon, like I imagine droves of VNPC grabbers doing. I like the idea of the patches and the early salt fairly clean picked, but I think you guys kinda screwed yourself with the early architecture of how the salts is for that reason alone.

Furthermore, you won't see more than a fraction of mounted characters salting because it's not particularly lucrative, fun, or progressive for one's character, unlike hunting or my personal favorite trade caravanning.

As an aside, hopefully not one that takes us off track again, there ABSOLUTELY are things that from the North can be sold at a premium in the south. It's just not skins or wood, some of the most plentiful things in the North, I know. I rationalized this by saying Allanak did chop down all of that wood in the Valley and probably also supplements mek bone and styrax for most projects, creating only slight demand for wood. And as far as the skin prices go, Allanak is essentially the center of the Known, it's reasonable to believe there are bigger better hunting parties underselling you. The vice versa is also the same, with PLENTY of goods that sell like hotcakes in Morin's and Luirs as well. However, I do think that yes, it could use some staff insight in a few locations, Allanak included.

Disclaimer: A lot of opinion.

[Malken]

My top 3 way to make coins in a crazy way and to abuse the livin' krath out of is:

#1 - Tailoring in Red Storm - Do we even need to explain why? The only "danger" to it are all the Allanakis that go to Red Storm to make their daily 1000+ sids and then head back to Allanak for the rp. This is especially popular with gemmers.

#2 - Spice sifting - I think I'm probably the reason for the recent change because I loved smashing my repeat command each time I'd forage up a spice mound and tried to get as much spice as my computer would allow before it vanished again. Then I'd just head back in Storm, rest a little and do it again. Making a small fortune that way was super easy. After the changes I've never really played again so I don't know how it affected it. I tried it I think once or twice but it wasn't worth it anymore.

#3 - Well, with clay digging, you can just set up a macro and then fall asleep in front of your keyboard. Sure, you won't make a lot but you'll probably wake up with more than enough to be able to buy water and food, so if you're playing a poor dude or just to rp, that's a good way to go around the annoying part of the code that makes you seek out jobs n' stuff.

[Ath]

My top 3 way to make coins in a crazy way and to abuse the livin' krath out of is:

#1 - Tailoring in Red Storm - Do we even need to explain why? The only "danger" to it are all the Allanakis that go to Red Storm to make their daily 1000+ sids and then head back to Allanak for the rp. This is especially popular with gemmers.

#2 - Spice sifting - I think I'm probably the reason for the recent change because I loved smashing my repeat command each time I'd forage up a spice mound and tried to get as much spice as my computer would allow before it vanished again. Then I'd just head back in Storm, rest a little and do it again. Making a small fortune that way was super easy. After the changes I've never really played again so I don't know how it affected it. I tried it I think once or twice but it wasn't worth it anymore.

#3 - Well, with clay digging, you can just set up a macro and then fall asleep in front of your keyboard. Sure, you won't make a lot but you'll probably wake up with more than enough to be able to buy water and food, so if you're playing a poor dude or just to rp, that's a good way to go around the annoying part of the code that makes you seek out jobs n' stuff.

Thank you for being blunt honest on that, it's appreciated.  Just going to note #3 because well... making a macro to do that is against the rules.  Clay digging is that mindnumbing task, which I think is fitting because well... digging in a clay pit should be tough and mindnumbing, and you get a small amount for it.  Though I've seen some good RP on people needing large amounts of it.  I will be straight out honest, with some of the changes we've made with Players building stuff in the game, clay and rock have been the primary materials to make them.  No more major wooden structures in the south, as it just doesn't fit the theme of the area of the game world.

So some are saying Salting is find as it is, it may require a mount.  Has anyone tried to just salt at the edge of the flats at all?  I know you can still do it, but to be honest I have not done it myself, so I am unsure if of how much coins you can make.

[Inks]

I didn't make much if anything from not digging a deposit. My forage wasn't above Journeyman so interested in what other had to say. I like it as is now as stated.

The red storm tailor is easily, vastly, the most broken job IG, as a well skilled combat PC you can clear the alleys out and sell the sandcloth gear ad infinitum too.

[Malken]

Thank you for being blunt honest on that, it's appreciated.  Just going to note #3 because well... making a macro to do that is against the rules.  Clay digging is that mindnumbing task, which I think is fitting because well... digging in a clay pit should be tough and mindnumbing, and you get a small amount for it.  Though I've seen some good RP on people needing large amounts of it.  I will be straight out honest, with some of the changes we've made with Players building stuff in the game, clay and rock have been the primary materials to make them.  No more major wooden structures in the south, as it just doesn't fit the theme of the area of the game world.

By macro I should probably have said script. You know, when instead of typing the command itself when you grab, say, a yellow sandstone and starting to forage once more, you have a script that makes you forage automatically each time you grab something but you're still in front of the monitor paying some attention to what goes on. I thought that was legal'ish?

If it's not then I can guarantee you that at least 90% of your foraging players are breaking that rule. As a staff member, watch the next 10 foraging PCs you come across and I can guarantee you that a vast majority of them will be picking and re-foraging stuff up with a perfectly automated rhythm.

[Delirium]

By macro I should probably have said script. You know, when instead of typing the command itself when you grab, say, a yellow sandstone and starting to forage once more, you have a script that makes you forage automatically each time you grab something but you're still in front of the monitor paying some attention to what goes on. I thought that was legal'ish?

Scripting used to be illegal but it is now permitted as long as you are there and paying attention, I recall that announcement.

I'm just too lazy to set one up so I just avoid foraging style jobs unless it's something I absolutely need to do, then I just make sure I have a good tv show going on in the background. There's a certain amount of repetition I don't mind but foraging blows past it quick.

[a french mans shirt]

I didn't make much if anything from not digging a deposit. My forage wasn't above Journeyman so interested in what other had to say. I like it as is now as stated.

For some reason in the past two days (I've been mining on some pcs for a long time) the drops of 'large chunks' from mining has about doubled. This might be to help out miners who complain about the danger and don't get enough for their efforts (when you are like me and don't forage rock for glass to weed out the obsidian deposits.) I like the way it is now, maybe the way it was a little bit better. You do better than a dung scraper and less than a salter, which is where I think they should be.

If the rooms closest to the east and west gates were to simply never have deposits of either glass or sid, I think it would be more realistic. I'm not talking that far out; miners should probably be in less danger than salters. Like the rooms of the forest closer to the gates of Tuluk: all the good trees have been cut down close by.

[Riev]

I'm going to be honest, I had no idea the forage table included uncovering the deposits until someone in game said "I just found it" and I was like "NO WONDER I CAN NEVER FIND THEM ANYMORE!"

Yeah, I think that might need to be looked into.


Salt grebbing wouldn't be so bad, if you bring the right tools, and find the right patches. I've only seen -one- of those 'right' patches before, and didn't have a shovel with me. That poor mutant must be so poor for crystals.

[lostinspace]

I've only had one character good at mining deposits, and they were pretty damn good at it. It wasn't really the sort of character to haul those stones into market. As it stood if I put an in game day into it I could hack out multiple rare gems. It was almost at the point that my tribal was considering paying for things in gems instead of coins. Mostly I just feel that deposits shouldn't spawn in caves when foraging, the ability to rest so quickly in caves makes the stamina cost of using the hacker a non issue. As much as I like the idea of just dumping a pouch of gems into someone's hands as payment, there is very little risk involved.

[Cabooze]

chalton = sids

[nauta]

chalton = sids

I played a herdsman recently, and can report that I did not get rich.  I think the chalton is pretty nicely balanced -- the shops fill up fast, and don't pay that much.

[Cabooze]

chalton = sids

I played a herdsman recently, and can report that I did not get rich.  I think the chalton is pretty nicely balanced -- the shops fill up fast, and don't pay that much.

There are stores you do not know about, then.

[Inks]

I didn't make much if anything from not digging a deposit. My forage wasn't above Journeyman so interested in what other had to say. I like it as is now as stated.

For some reason in the past two days (I've been mining on some pcs for a long time) the drops of 'large chunks' from mining has about doubled. This might be to help out miners who complain about the danger and don't get enough for their efforts (when you are like me and don't forage rock for glass to weed out the obsidian deposits.) I like the way it is now, maybe the way it was a little bit better. You do better than a dung scraper and less than a salter, which is where I think they should be.

If the rooms closest to the east and west gates were to simply never have deposits of either glass or sid, I think it would be more realistic. I'm not talking that far out; miners should probably be in less danger than salters. Like the rooms of the forest closer to the gates of Tuluk: all the good trees have been cut down close by.

Sorry I should have clarified, I was responding to Ath's question specifically about salt.