How to progress?

[meep79a]

So I'm starting to get rather frustrated. To me it seems the only viable way to survive for any length of time and advance my character is through the Byn. I'm not talking about grinding skills, Im talking about learning my way around..being able to a sort of profit or just plain having something interesting that my character dose or knows. Talking to people and role playing is great but I find it hard to role play anything other than someone that has no idea about how the world works because I have such a limited understanding of the complexities of the game. Sure Ive read a lot of the help files and the website, I read some almost everyday. I have also browsed through plenty of the forums. Yet still I feel like if I leave the gates for any reason I die, and if I don't leave the gates my character will either starve, dehydrate or just plain die of boredom. Am I just being unimaginative here is there something I'm completely missing? I guess what I'm asking is what are some ways to progress my character while still providing interactions with people that dosnt involve joining the Byn. And how can I learn to navigate and understand the world...or is that just something that comes with time and after many many dead characters? I just feel like there is only one optimal path here for me, but I'm hoping Im dead wrong. Not only that but it seems like the Byn has the most active player base, like almost all of Nak was Byn except a few people I would run into on occasion. I had such a fun time with my last character, but I just cant seem to replicate that fun on a different path.

[Reiloth]

Hi there --

I can understand your frustration. By means of comparison, my first 5 PCs were in Red Storm Village, and I didn't interact with a single PC before making a PC in Tuluk. They were all beetle fodder, and I was pretty frustrated with the game, I couldn't learn anything, and it was so difficult.

There is a really hard learning curve with the game -- I recommend stepping outside of the box. The Byn is definitely an answer, but it isn't the only answer. A hunting group, be it independent or Salarr or Kadius, will have about a year of training (to get gud) and then you literally explore the Known World, hunting creatures and seeing new locales. There are plenty of experienced players outside of the Byn, and plenty in it as well. But you may find that joining a different organization with a different set of goals may provide you the interaction (and knowledge) you are looking for.

Short of that, I will say it comes with time. Many dead PCs. And the 'ennui' of not having a lot of fun on a PC is rampant, not just with new players but with veterans as well. Sometimes a concept just 'clicks' and it's those PCs that really stick with me. But as to what makes them click or make sense is up in the air. Sometimes a PC clicks for me after like 5 days played, sometimes it's right out of the box, or sometimes not at all no matter how hard I try.

There are many people in the Byn -- You won't find other clans as active. But you will also find that isn't exactly necessary to have a good time, and to develop a PC. Sometimes having too many PCs around can create a lot of white noise, and it's hard to find your own character because you are spending so much time training and following a schedule. Sometimes it isn't that hard at all.

The Byn, again, is definitely an answer but by no means the only answer. Explore, try a different clan, if not on this PC then on your next one. Try making someone who joins the Army of the Dragon. Or someone who is a criminal. There are plenty of options out there, ArmageddonMUD is by no means a 'one stop shop'.

[whitt]

So I'm starting to get rather frustrated. To me it seems the only viable way to survive for any length of time and advance my character is through the Byn.

Heya!  Welcome to Arm and yes, I've felt your frustration.  There are a few options for starting out and trying to learn what's out in the world:
1) You've already tried out, join the Byn.  This isn't a bad first stop to learn the syntax and some of the game world.
2) Explore on your own.  This can be rough, as you'll probably die more than a couple of times finding out where the nasty critters live, so maybe push this down the list a bit unless it's your style.
3) Join one of the other, newer player friendly clans.  
   - Arm of the Dragon (Allanak militia) usually has a decent playerbase though I'm not sure how much they explore
   - Salarr and Kadius have hunting wings, often Salarr being more active at hunting than Kadius.  Salarri hunters will likely need to travel all over for bits and pieces.
   - Kurac is entirely separate from Allanak, and the Kuraci Fist patrols pretty regularly so you should get a different view of the world here.  You'll want to "point Luir's" to join the Kuraci Fist.
4) Try one of the DesertElf or Tribal Human clans.  These can vary in player numbers, but should also give you a broader view of what's out in the world, as they travel entirely different paths.

Personally if you've tried the Byn, I'd suggest Kurac or Salarr.  Then maybe dip back into the Byn again three or four characters down the line.  You might be surprised at how different even the Byn can be once you've left and come back again.  Once you've got the basics of the world down, then you can branch out into playing an independent hunter working for some of the independent merchants or the Nobles or one of the other IG organizations.

The Byn (especially when it's clicking on all cylinders) is a tough act to follow, but I hope you'll find if you throw yourself into one of the other organizations they can be great fun too.

[whitt]

the 'ennui' of not having a lot of fun on a PC is rampant, not just with new players but with veterans as well.

This is also an excellent point.  In an RPI there will, on almost any character, be periods of down times in activity.  One of the things that I have found helps with this is making sure that your PC has some sort of "hobby" to keep them busy.  I'd recommend making your you have a guild with some ability to craft or a sub-guild with some ability to craft, so you can busy yourself when you are not actively out exploring or interacting with other players.

[Riev]

Firstly, you gotta find out what attracts you more. The socializing and talking with people, or the fighting, or the exploration, etc etc.

The Byn is GREAT to learn syntax, common words and usage, getting your feet wet. Its good to learn how fighting and combat WORKS, and some basics about survival.

Nothing teaches you about survival like wandering outside unprepared. No water, no food, just walking the desert lost and alone. It takes some people their first character to click. It took me about 8. Learning where to go, general basics, what the hell a gortok is...

Progression just matters for your goal. If your goal is to get lost in the story, you can progress without ever having to leave the gates of a city or outpost. If its to socialize, sometimes you just need to find an organization or a couple PCs you really click with. If its about fighting, joining a clan that has lots of it.

[Lizzie]

1. If you stay in the city and never leave, you won't need gear or a mount. If you don't need gear or a mount, there's no reason why you should burn through food and water fast at all. You can get food cheap at the butcher's next door to Red's Retreat. You can fill your waterskin at the water temple at the end of Meleth's Circle fairly inexpensively. And if you're spending most of your time sitting down inside the bar, you will not get hungry or thirsty very often at all.

A very boring existence though, and probably not what you're hoping to experience in Armageddon.

Arm has a harsh learning curve. It always has and in fact it used to be much harsher. It used to be much harsher, AND there were fewer players online at any given moment, so fewer PCs to interact with. AND there was a whole other city, so it was more spread out. And yet - it managed to gain a more robust population before it ever started getting more "newbie friendly." I suggest you roll with it, with every character. Accept that it's going to be difficult to learn the hows and wherefores of playing.

Think of those 10,000-piece jigsaw puzzles - if each piece were numbered and all you had to do was put piece #1 next to piece #2 next to piece #3 and so on, you'd probably stop wasting your time even bothering before you got to piece 50. Arm isn't nearly as difficult as a 10,000-piece jigsaw puzzle. It's likely you'll get the hang of it before you hit the 100th piece

[Narana]

I suppose it makes full sense, but one thing I personally am not fond of is the whole 'explore even if it kills your pc' mentality. I mean, I suppose it makes sense, but I am really bad at creating characters I don't care about, and to have them die just to learn a scattered bit more about the world is an incredible turn-off.

[whitt]

I suppose it makes full sense, but one thing I personally am not fond of is the whole 'explore even if it kills your pc' mentality. I mean, I suppose it makes sense, but I am really bad at creating characters I don't care about, and to have them die just to learn a scattered bit more about the world is an incredible turn-off.

I agree.  Probably why there are still plenty of place I haven't seen.  Good side?  Plenty of places to still explore when it makes sense for one of my PCs to get there.

Nice thing about Allanak is that between the Merchant Houses, Byn, Arm of the Dragon, Noble Houses, Rinth, and independent groups, there's still plenty to cycle through learning different parts of the game.

[path]

I suppose it makes full sense, but one thing I personally am not fond of is the whole 'explore even if it kills your pc' mentality. I mean, I suppose it makes sense, but I am really bad at creating characters I don't care about, and to have them die just to learn a scattered bit more about the world is an incredible turn-off.

I still have totally never done this. But I admire all of you who have. My hat is off to you.

[Teacup Kitten]

Or you can make some 'throwaways' to explore and learn the world a bit more. Throwaways are what hey are throwaways but it is possible for one who would survive all hardship and live a long time. Of course asking some random people like, what's out to the north, east, west and south would make your expedition a little more prepared.

[Raptor_Dan]

Don't make a 'throwaway', don't make a PC with the intention for that PC to die, but recognize that in the real world, there's some crazy MF-ers out there taking risks that you'll never catch ME doing. Why? They think differently. They're risk-takers, or crazy, or really think they'll make it.

Make those kind of chars, instead. I once made a char with the intention of 'Be a cocky risk taker' and he was one of my favorites of all times. Nearly died six times, seventh got him, but in between that time, I had a blast, adrenaline pumping all the time, I explored plenty of new places and actually survived, and had great stories to tell everyone. They thought he was a hardcore badass, but really, he was just a lucky risk-taker.


Don't make throwaways.

Make legends.

[gotdamnmiracle]

As far as the learning curve goes, ho yeah. It's a doozy and it will hit like a freight train. It's like staring the matrix at first. Then after maybe a week it's closer to a typing game, when you have stuff you want to say or emote or do, but you just can't make your fingers do it, and then it kinda just shows up, maybe after fiddling with the game for a couple of weeks.

As far as figuring out where to go and all of that, possibly try starting somewhere else and asking around. Everyone's making a living somehow, ask them how they do it, try it for yourself, rinse repeat.

[Lizzie]

Some advice I've seen on the GDB, that I think is the "guts" of the issue:

When exploring, if you see a thing 1 room away and it comes to your room, run away. If you see a thing 1 room away and it just stays there, you can approach it and examine it and decide then whether or not you want to risk fighting it. If you see a thing, approach it, and it runs away, you can -probably- try and kill it without dying in the process.

That's a code thing. Aggro vs. non-aggro vs. cowardly. It isn't always foolproof but it's a good benchmark.

Also - use the LOOK command generously. Example:
n
l n
l e
l w
l s

e
l n
l e
l w
l s

Every once in awhile, emote - but don't feel you have to emote with every command.

Pay attention to the room descriptions. If you are in a room that mentions a cliff to the northwest, and you type north - look west. It's likely you'll see a little extra "look echo" reminding you that going west will result in you either climbing or falling. If the room description says it's an impassable drop into the abyss, you probably shouldn't go in that direction.

Rooms that are "dark" - often have things in it that might hurt you. Sometimes they don't. But it's a risk you have to decide whether or not to take, and accept the results whatever they may be.

Lastly, the advice of EVERYONE here so far - is to group up. Join a clan. If you want to do a lot of "outside the gates" stuff right away, join Kadius or Salarr, and make sure your play times coincide with the majority of the clan-mates' play-time. If you want to skill up until you're actually ready to handle what's out the gates, join the Byn. If you want to do localized exploration (at least at first), join Kurac.

[evilcabbage]

looking in every direction while in the wilderness is advice i forget to give new people, but it's something you should get in the habit. you don't want to forget to look north and have the next room up be the room that triggers

A battalion of ruddy-hued, angry mekillots have arrived from the north.

[nauta]

I received very solid outdoors training, both in terms of code and RP, in Salarr as a newbie.

[Narana]

Don't make a 'throwaway', don't make a PC with the intention for that PC to die, but recognize that in the real world, there's some crazy MF-ers out there taking risks that you'll never catch ME doing. Why? They think differently. They're risk-takers, or crazy, or really think they'll make it.

Make those kind of chars, instead. I once made a char with the intention of 'Be a cocky risk taker' and he was one of my favorites of all times. Nearly died six times, seventh got him, but in between that time, I had a blast, adrenaline pumping all the time, I explored plenty of new places and actually survived, and had great stories to tell everyone. They thought he was a hardcore badass, but really, he was just a lucky risk-taker.


Don't make throwaways.

Make legends.

Sure. But it strikes me as foolhardy to make that kind of character when you don't really know much about the world or are new. It is just going to lead to frustration when you die because you did something blatantly stupid you thought was a great, worthile risk, but everyone else knew was simply retarded. You were just not in the know.

[Lizzie]

Don't make a 'throwaway', don't make a PC with the intention for that PC to die, but recognize that in the real world, there's some crazy MF-ers out there taking risks that you'll never catch ME doing. Why? They think differently. They're risk-takers, or crazy, or really think they'll make it.

Make those kind of chars, instead. I once made a char with the intention of 'Be a cocky risk taker' and he was one of my favorites of all times. Nearly died six times, seventh got him, but in between that time, I had a blast, adrenaline pumping all the time, I explored plenty of new places and actually survived, and had great stories to tell everyone. They thought he was a hardcore badass, but really, he was just a lucky risk-taker.


Don't make throwaways.

Make legends.

Sure. But it strikes me as foolhardy to make that kind of character when you don't really know much about the world or are new. It is just going to lead to frustration when you die because you did something blatantly stupid you thought was a great, worthile risk, but everyone else knew was simply retarded. You were just not in the know.

This is a multi-player game. If you, the player, don't know what's "over in that area" there's no reason why your character has to magically know what's there. RP your character having a reason to not know, and have your character ask someone IG. They might tell you. They might tell you to fuck off. They might offer to take you, and then rob you. In truth, "what's over there" is only a small part of the game. All the stuff that leads up to you arriving at the destination (including asking someone IG) is where you should be focusing your attention.

[Narana]

Don't make a 'throwaway', don't make a PC with the intention for that PC to die, but recognize that in the real world, there's some crazy MF-ers out there taking risks that you'll never catch ME doing. Why? They think differently. They're risk-takers, or crazy, or really think they'll make it.

Make those kind of chars, instead. I once made a char with the intention of 'Be a cocky risk taker' and he was one of my favorites of all times. Nearly died six times, seventh got him, but in between that time, I had a blast, adrenaline pumping all the time, I explored plenty of new places and actually survived, and had great stories to tell everyone. They thought he was a hardcore badass, but really, he was just a lucky risk-taker.


Don't make throwaways.

Make legends.

Sure. But it strikes me as foolhardy to make that kind of character when you don't really know much about the world or are new. It is just going to lead to frustration when you die because you did something blatantly stupid you thought was a great, worthile risk, but everyone else knew was simply retarded. You were just not in the know.

This is a multi-player game. If you, the player, don't know what's "over in that area" there's no reason why your character has to magically know what's there. RP your character having a reason to not know, and have your character ask someone IG. They might tell you. They might tell you to fuck off. They might offer to take you, and then rob you. In truth, "what's over there" is only a small part of the game. All the stuff that leads up to you arriving at the destination (including asking someone IG) is where you should be focusing your attention.

I feel like you are missing the point of what I said. Or maybe we are just saying similar things in different ways.
At no point did I say your character should magically know anything. Obviously, that isn't going to happen. Or it could, I suppose. I mean, if your character has a background of being a veteran desert ranger but you are new player then, well, yeah...

Probably going to end badly, but that is not the point.

I simply said roleplaying the bold kind of risk-taker described above when you are ignorant about the world and about the risks and about every damn other thing makes little sense. You can do it, I suppose, and in great part it'd probably depend on just how you go about it, but to me, at least, it seems like begging for a stupid death and a lot of frustration. Which is why I, personally, would not do it. But if it works for other  people then thats nice

[Lizzie]

I guess what I'm saying is there's a difference between taking risks, and suicide missions. Risk takers still do prep work. Asking around for a consensus isn't that much of a chore, if the alternative is instant death to a mob you didn't know existed, that almost everyone else knows about, just because you didn't think to ask.

[Ath]

I will fully admit I have a macro setup on keyboard command that looks in every direction.  I've been using it for years.  It's saved my ass a number of times.  Everyone else is giving some great feedback.  You learn in time with Arm, or you learn with other people.  I was blessed and my first character got in with a great Indie hunting crew and I got to learn the game very good that way.

[RogueGunslinger]

Clans are the best way to progress, imo.

[Hauwke]

Being solo can get you far, in terms of personal developement, but it only goes so far since it is in my view mostly monotonous, I.E. Go to place A, explore, go home having read nothing but the room descriptions and a little solo rp. And while this might get a few people really fired up, I am sure the majority want some multiplayer rp in with their exploring place A and a good clan covers that I think.