Who Can Wear Silk in Allanak?

[The Lonely Hunter]

Based on the "I'm taking my ball and going home!" comments maybe it should be pointed out that Kadius sells more than just silk.

[path]

They do, but unfortunately the crafting trees for silk items are WAAAAAAAAY bigger in Kadius and ordering out is discouraged just now, so it's become a bit more limited selection.

[nauta]

If there's a reason you rarely if ever see it on people that don't wear metal the past few years... well... I'm not allowed to name specific pc names on the boards, but I have a real vivid idea of why.

It's also bad form to 'vague post' about those PCs...

[Armaddict]

I'd like to reiterate that I think most people would not be wearing it.  And that by wearing it, you essentially want people to stroll up to you drinking out of a goblet of wine and looking you up and down to ask, "So you want to play the game of thrones?"

Attempted rises in social status is the beginning of the political game.  You're no longer focused on scraping by on the sweat of your brow and the blood on your blade.  You're ready to be a talker, a manipulator, and a rung on the ladder of the social elite.  And that's a far more brutal world, which I'm sure is what has some people upset about the treatment.

My only position is that this is not some sort of law, or an attempt by players to tell others 'You're making my character less special because I'm supposed to wear silk and you're not.'  And my only warning is that the political game in Armageddon is, in reality, pretty damn brutal when you've got the right players in it, so I'm a little unsympathetic to the 'I got screwed for silk.'  I just want the actual political game to be played with it, instead of this 'I'm telling a templar and because there's documentation I think we should make sure everyone follows that documentation as the letter of the law.'  It's not the letter of the law, it's a cultural taboo, which gives it a lot more bend and nuance and potential for the psychology behind it to be more important to the players engaging in it than the documentation itself.

Wear silk.  Show you want to play the game.  Endure the scorn of those who don't think you have what it takes.  Maybe a few of you will make a name for yourselves.  But don't expect to be left alone.  You'll be pulled into some shit (hopefully not petty).

Edit: And I think the assertion that this is some sort of new radical thing is pretty disingenuous.  I started in 1998, and commoners in silk was far more prevalent then than now.  It's actually been steadily on the decline, in my opinion, due to oversensitivity to it.  And I think that's just fine.  But I really don't see any problems with wealthy commoners trying to climb the social ladder, even if it's rigid, even if it's hard...because the precedence has -already- been set, long ago, that it is possible.


Edit 2:  Just leaving this here:

*Scene of slow, purposeful dressing of the tressy-tressed woman, looking at herself in an obsidian mirror as she steels herself for the day*
The tressy-tressed woman thinks: Today I make my move.

*The tressy-tressed woman walks into the high-class establishment wearing silk, chin held high and moving through the room to take a seat.*
Noble 1 thinks: Good for her.  She made her move.  I'll be having my man check up on her to make sure her legs don't get cut off.  I want that deal.
Noble 2 thinks: Well well well, look who's moving up in the world?  Pawn1 will have to find out whose backing she has to gain this confidence.
Noble 3 thinks: What a tart.  At least you'll look pretty for a week, but Noble 2 will eat you alive.  I give you a week.

*Noble 2 lifts a hand to beckon the tressy-tressed woman to her table.*

In essence, there's a whole other game to be played where commoners are the wild-card, and silks are the signal that they're in play.  An independent wearing silks shows that they are no longer in the game through service, but in it for themselves.  Aides wear silks because they are in play, but under someone else.

I'd much rather the culture be viewed this way, than as a means of shallow class separation.  The class separation, the caste society, is so much more established than to be threatened by a commoner.  But it would be amusing all the same to see those beneath them start making moves on their board.

[bardlyone]

If there's a reason you rarely if ever see it on people that don't wear metal the past few years... well... I'm not allowed to name specific pc names on the boards, but I have a real vivid idea of why.

It's also bad form to 'vague post' about those PCs...

Which is why there was no allusion to their identity, and simply a (multiple RL years old) example of something that happened once. I would hazard to say that if someone in particular feels singled out when it's been before 2014 even and it's almost 2017, I can't really help you there.

[Norcal]

Who can wear silk in Allanak? Whoever can get away with it.

Should there be a list of those who may and may not wear silk? No.  If it is not illegal then there is no need.


Also, how you wear silk makes all the difference.  If you run around in a silk bodice, you can expect to have more people aware of your attire than if you run around in something more presentable that does not attract attention.

Based on the "I'm taking my ball and going home!" comments maybe it should be pointed out that Kadius sells more than just silk.

Thank you. Well put.

[Desertman]

Based on the "I'm taking my ball and going home!" comments maybe it should be pointed out that Kadius sells more than just silk.

Thank you. Well put.

This goes for more than just silk.

It goes for anything that might be considered, "Finer goods.".

If you make it ok to cut people into pieces for just wearing silk, then suddenly wearing diamond earrings can slip into that category, or really nice expensive leather boots that might cost as much as a silk pair of boots because they also have jade and amber buttons on them....

My point wasn't, hurr durr silk.

My point was "Let's not slip into making wearing nice/finer things common-law illegal in the eyes of the players or you are going to alienate the use of the House known for "finer things".

Yes, Kadius makes things that "aren't so fine" too, but nobody is knocking down their door for their shit-tier gear.

If you put in a special order with Kadius (the interaction and not just the NPC Shopkeeper Part), you are usually putting it in for finer things.

[Chettaman]

Your mother can wear silk.

[WarriorPoet]

Your mother can wear silk.

But she doesnt. Because she is a wretched commoner.

[Reiloth]

I don't really buy the argument of 'the silk lists in kadius are so lonnnnng and they don't sell anything else'. I mean, frankly, bullshit. They have a huge amount of items, cotton, linen, items with some silk, and sure, a lot of silk. But fuck that. They have enough items for you to play dress up with to adhere to the norms of Allanaki fashion culture without getting in a twist over it.

As to finer goods -- Sure, if you see someone wearing all linen and cotton and then a bazillion sapphire, ruby, and diamond rings/jewelry...That sort of falls into the same category. It's trying to 'out rich' Nobles. If you do it tastefully, or you have the station to back it, you probably won't get fucked with. If you're some nobody half-breed merchant, you better expect trouble.

It's really not that hard, guys and gals.

[Armaddict]

It's really not that hard, guys and gals.

[Lizzie]

It's not a matter of laws or rules in Allanak. There's no official law stating that commoners can't wear silk. It's a cultural thing. Tuluki commoners were welcome to wear silk, because the culture dictated a bond between commoners and the nobility as a result of the sacking and rebuilding of their city. Allanak has no such culture, and the castes are designed to be very obviously different from each other. The common class *wouldn't* wear silk, because they wouldn't want to be accused of trying to impersonate their betters. UNLESS they are of a rank where they have already earned a grudging respect of those betters - such as the case of a senior aide, or a GMH Merchant or a Junior Merchant who is also a GMH family member (signet-wearing GMH person).

A single silk scarf - maybe a matching pair of gloves, sure, probably no problem at all really. A single silk belt - why not, it's usually tucked under your cloak anyway. But decked out in H2T silks? You should -expect- flack from it, not because there's some "rule" or "law" forbidding it but rather - silk vs. not-silk is one of the many dividing lines in Allanaki culture that separate commoners from nobility. The GMH family members, senior ranking aides, GMH merchants/agents - are all "on" that line, rather than squarely on one side or the other. They're better than other commoners but not as good as nobility.

[Dunetrade55]

But it's enforced by law, just like going into Red's as a breed or an elf is punishable by death now somehow. I used to have breeds and elves that sat in Red's, reeking of latrine, and it was ok. But then one day, it wasn't. Unsure why, but getting beaten and possibly murdered simply for not being a human, half-giant, or dwarf became a thing. I have a proposed solution, kill all dwarf and half-giant scum who come into Red's.

For a while after that, I swear I must've been the only one who used the Silver Ginka... with, an elf. There's enough closed doors for elves, yeah, we get it, it was cute at first but now it's starting to get grating when people roll up humans simply to turn the screws because that elf might steal from me! OH NOES!

[Lizzie]

But it's enforced by law, just like going into Red's as a breed or an elf is punishable by death now somehow. I used to have breeds and elves that sat in Red's, reeking of latrine, and it was ok. But then one day, it wasn't. Unsure why, but getting beaten and possibly murdered simply for not being a human, half-giant, or dwarf became a thing. I have a proposed solution, kill all dwarf and half-giant scum who come into Red's.

For a while after that, I swear I must've been the only one who used the Silver Ginka... with, an elf. There's enough closed doors for elves, yeah, we get it, it was cute at first but now it's starting to get grating when people roll up humans simply to turn the screws because that elf might steal from me! OH NOES!

It's not enforced "by law." It's enforced by "Law" (capital L) - as in, the Arm sergeant and/or Templar du jour. If you're smart about it, your breed will outlive both of them, and their replacements won't have such restrictions.

Mages aren't welcome in Red's either, but I've seen in the past instances when certain of them were tolerated.

Elves aren't typically welcome in Reds, though I'd imagine a Byn sergeant elf who's earned his stripes (as opposed to having them handed to him simply because he was the only one in his unit that wasn't dead), being asked to meet a noble's aide/GMH family member for a contract, and possessed of a clean, non-ratty outfit, would be tolerated in Red's for the meeting.

Red's is one of those places that welcome people depending on which PC is running which clan at any given moment. The Silver Ginka depends on whether or not any PC actually remembers it exists, and is interested in hanging out with half a dozen NPC soldiers on their night off, and not actually buying anything because why buy a cup of tea when you can get 4 ales for the same price at the Gaj.

[Barzalene]

I am one of the people that some people are complaining about. My Kadian would choose not to hire people wearing silk, ridicule employees who wore silk/too much silk/unfashionable clothes. She would sell people any stupid thing they wanted and charge but them extra for it and shit talk them behind their back. If I had it to do over I'd do it the same.

In the end a lot of it is cult of personality. Some people can get away with wearing thing others can't because they icly make it OK. That's so much more fun than relaxing all standards.

I love that over 20 years a fashion culture has developed. I also love that fashion can be used as a weapon.

[Synthesis]

As a former 'rinthi elf who wore silks in the Red's, I'm really getting a kick out of these replies. 

[WarriorPoet]

I don't know what the problem is. I love random little social snares that can get people jammed up. Silks on a commoner, elves in the Red. A Bynner with shit on his boots on the wrong street drawing down fire and judgement. I would like to see the Templarate go bananas on people over the tiniest things. Abuse your employees. Fuck everyone. Lets be hateful to each other for the dumbest reasons or no reason at all.

[Riev]

Guys, telling me that my PC will receive judgment, ridicule, and possibly even persecution because of choices they have made is really triggering me.

I don't think its okay that someone in a position of (sometimes artificial) power can tell my dirt commoner PC what to do, how to do it, and threaten to kill them if they don't. It makes me feel unsafe.

I deserve to feel safe.


#MUSHnotMUD

[path]

Guys, telling me that my PC will receive judgment, ridicule, and possibly even persecution because of choices they have made is really triggering me.

I don't think its okay that someone in a position of (sometimes artificial) power can tell my dirt commoner PC what to do, how to do it, and threaten to kill them if they don't. It makes me feel unsafe.

I deserve to feel safe.


#MUSHnotMUD

<3

Is anyone really saying they have a problem with the current situation or are we all just agreeing on it and outlining how we see it working? I feel like there's a lot of pricklesome preaching to the choir in here. 

Barzalene, she was pitch perfect. I for one am certainly not complaining about you and your methods.

[Desertman]

I would never play with Barz. She is a newb and does very newb things. Furthermore, she doesn't capitalize or punctuate at all, even when she's not playing dwarves, which is the main reason that's unacceptable.


(Play with Barz, she is pretty damn great.)

[Beethoven]

I like the player tradition. I do think it's a little silly when people can pick you out of a crowd to telescopically identify small amounts of a particular fabric you are wearing and be immediately 100% sure about it without closer examination.

[Barzalene]

I would never play with Barz. She is a newb and does very newb things. Furthermore, she doesn't capitalize or punctuate at all, even when she's not playing dwarves, which is the main reason that's unacceptable.


(Play with Barz, she is pretty damn great.)

For a noob.

[Riev]

Really, it just comes down to "do whatever you want, but don't expect that because it worked before, its going to work now".

Synth had a 'rinthi elf sitting in Red's wearing all silk. He probably was in a very specific situation that allowed it. That doesn't mean everyone can do it.

I have an account note forever on my pfile because I had a Northern sub-tailor and the very first pair of silk sleeves he ever made, he wore -all- the time. To the point that they were tattered and gross.

◦ Fighting a buzzard on north salt road while wearing silk sleeves.


Is it a NEGATIVE account note? Not really, but it goes to show that even way back then, wearing a single piece of silk and doing manual labor tend not to mesh (coincidentally, nobody EVER mentioned it or asked me about it so that I could give them the backstory behind it).


Which is all to reiterate: Play the damn game. If someone picks on you for wearing silk, and you can't tattle to someone of equal or higher station... well... too fucking bad. Make better friends. Make more coin and hire someone to rough up that person's minions, or constantly sack their apartments and shit in their stew bowls.

Don't whine.

[Jingo]

Players jamming their roleplay expectations down my throat is triggering me.

And the word triggering triggers me because it's making this board sound like an MRA get together.

[Dunetrade55]

People getting triggered is triggering me, fuck everyone.