A few thoughts..

[manonfire]

Your feelings < ---------------------------------------- | ----------------------------------------> Your character's feelings

[anvilsmith]

Most of my character's interactions were with characters that did not have a bad attitude. Admittedly, a few were rotten thieves and a few were elves of the lowest sort, but most were reasonable people who would not have given your character hell for no reason. My suggestion is that you have your character find a better group of people to interact with in the future. If your stint with the Byn didn't work out, try to change to a different sergeant or join a merchant house.

And if your character was indeed in a group full of elves, and they treated your character badly, it was to be expected on their part. Elves are arrogant and treacherous people in this game.

[Reiloth]

Most of my character's interactions were with characters that did not have a bad attitude. Admittedly, a few were rotten thieves and a few were elves of the lowest sort, but most were reasonable people who would not have given your character hell for no reason. My suggestion is that you have your character find a better group of people to interact with in the future. If your stint with the Byn didn't work out, try to change to a different sergeant or join a merchant house.

And if your character was indeed in a group full of elves, and they treated your character badly, it was to be expected on their part. Elves are arrogant and treacherous people in this game.

+1, very true and good advice. When in doubt, try another place out. I've had great times in the Byn, and horrible times in the Byn. It isn't anyone's fault -- Some people don't mesh well with others, playstyle wise, and PC wise. There's a fine combination of chemistry where everything 'clicks' for everyone in a clan. And in a place like the Byn, there is a whole range of playstyles and PCs.

Try Salarr. The freedom of playing a hunter, but having the relative comfort of city life when you want it/need it.
Try Kurac. The self-professed kings of Luirs Outpost. Sometimes it's fun to play the outcast bully with their own sand castle.
Try Dust Runners. It's an exciting life being a spice smuggler, especially if you force yourself to take risks.
Try Arm of the Dragon. Typically not a newibe friendly clan, but it bred BadSkeelz, so it can't be all that bad.
Try just roughing it outdoors. You meet all sorts of interesting people. My first 5 PCs were unaffiliated beetle-feeders.

[Case]

Most of my character's interactions were with characters that did not have a bad attitude. Admittedly, a few were rotten thieves and a few were elves of the lowest sort, but most were reasonable people who would not have given your character hell for no reason. My suggestion is that you have your character find a better group of people to interact with in the future. If your stint with the Byn didn't work out, try to change to a different sergeant or join a merchant house.

And if your character was indeed in a group full of elves, and they treated your character badly, it was to be expected on their part. Elves are arrogant and treacherous people in this game.

Try Arm of the Dragon. Typically not a newibe friendly clan, but it bred BadSkeelz, so it can't be all that bad.

I still apologise for breeding BadSkeelz

[BrokenRomance]

Hey Ronin, sorry your first experience with Armageddon MUD wasn't very exciting.

I actually skipped the "Join the Byn first" experience as a new player, and I have to say I don't regret it. I still haven't played a single Byn PC. If you're really having trouble with this character, and can't find anything else to do with it you can just store it, there really isn't any shame in doing that.

If you missed a lot of IC time that was required of you, I'd really urge you to try out an unaffiliated PC. A indie merchant or a hunter. They're very fun to play in their own way, and you aren't required to logon any time but when you want to for that sort of thing because you work for yourself.

[Reiloth]

The Atrium is another really good choice for a newbie PC. It's actually designed with new players in mind. It introduces you to the realm of Allanaki Politics, which can be another intriguing way into ArmageddonMUD. I highly recommend it.

[Barsook]

I agree about the Atrium, but it's mostly for those folks who want to play non-combat based characters.  Keep in mind that aiding isn't like a servant and it can go many different ways.  You might find that you are better off playing a solical-poltical type of personalty. I have. I would advise you to have your character hang in the Red's Retreat not the Gaj for many reasons, one is you can meet your potential employer.

You can also role up a crafter, but keep in mind that you still need to socialize.

I would also suggest to work on another concept and if you don't like how your current is going, store and play the new one.  But I would suggest to read the docs on the various clans and info about Allanak and the other areas.

[Dresan]

Mean-ness is okay, its the ooc-esque ranting some of your guys do in a vague IC way that annoys me. You people know who you are, and I wish you would stop and just write a complain the same way I have to every time I have to listen to you.

Now I don't know if thats the case in this situation, but its the only type of 'meanness' I can't stand myself.

That said, Byn is hit and miss, to be honest most clans are some of the time. However, the byn tends to attract both good and bad aspects of verteran players. Its more of a revolving door. My first character joined the byn and it involved me stuck at an empty compound and eventually killed because I wandered out one day. Anyways, I didn't really like the game, but gave it one more shot, and kurac (the old kurac) wow, really opened my eyes to some awesome roleplayers.

Try Salarr or kadius either is often a good learning experience, doubly so if they have a couple hunters already in them (that aren't anti-social asshole, you do get those too in there).

[Rhei]

Im a little worried that so many replies to this port have "kill them all" suggestions. Kind of makes it sound like this is some kind of a PK mud. It's not. 

But it is supposed to be about well, you know... murder, corruption, betrayal.

To the point, though, there are many other ways a player could handle their character being tormented. Killing might just happen to be one of the most obvious ones.

[Gilgamesh]

I know the feeling. It's hard to get used to. And really, the Byn is the worst when you think of mean-spirited PCs. Not a bad thing, they're just all salty as hell. Just remember it isn't personal at all. What I did when I first played was join House Kurac. It's a lot like the Byn experience-wise and it tends to be a lot easier going. Less humiliation (like cleaning the latrines, sergeants calling you a piece of shit, etc.). I feel like House Kurac is a lot better for new players to get used to the game than the Byn. The Byn is really hard going (as it should be, being a mercenary company). House Kurac is also a good way to learn the geography of Zalanthas as well as the culture. And plus, House Kurac is A LOT of fun, in my experience. Play a few PCs and you'll get used to the grittiness of the game. Overall, PCs in the cities (Allanak, especially) are full of jaded hard-asses.

[Dar]

Hrm. This player hasnt logged in onto GDB since the day he posted this. Unfortunate. I blame Elves.

[WarriorPoet]

My characters are always rude, condescending and, if in a position of authority, tyrannical. But I also take great leaps to not single out newer PLAYERS for torment or ridicule. A character is fair game. Harass them mercilessly, but as a playerbase we should all make allowances for players that are lost and trying to learn. If this guy honestly thought they were abusing him just because he was a new player, he should have gone to Staff.

Hope he gives it another shot.

[dravage]

I rarely chime in on the public side of the GDB, but it saddened me reading this (unfortunately a little later than I would've liked to) and I certainly hope said player does return for another shot at the game, Byn or otherwise.

Most of what needs to be said has been said by wiser and more expert players than myself, but I would like to say that I am a firm believer that the Byn is a great place for new people to start.

We have worked very hard to make it a great starting point for new players and yet remain an exciting and adventurous environment for old players too (I hope). Being only 5 months into my time here at ARM, I'm grateful that players in the Byn took the time out of their day to help me ease into the game. I'm now in a position to do that for others, and I damn well make sure we (collectively as a clan) try to welcome folks who are obviously new, lost, and confused.

Anyway, to those reading who still haven't tried the Byn, or new folks who stop by that might still want to, please do come and give it a try and experience it for yourself!

[Kankman]

Having recently returned to the game I have to say that I found a certain incarnation of T'zai Byn characters utterly intolerable. I think most've them have cleared out, but it's possible the players themselves reincarnated and made PCs with similar attitudes.

It was a seriously toxic place to be. For the first time ever, I actually considered putting in a complaint to the staff.

The intense sexual nature of the banter was really, really, rapey, and just plain gross.

If I had been a new player, I would've left and never came back.

We should all keep in mind while deviously tormenting and backstabbing, that murder, corruption, and betrayal are super fun. Vulgar sexual violence, not so much.

Not sure the nature of the torment inflicted upon this new player, but if it was more the latter than the former, that might have something to do with it.

[SuchDragonWow]

lol wut.  I must've missed this stint.  "The intense sexual nature of the banter was really, really, rapey, and just plain gross."  Lmfao, get out of town, I call shenanigans.

[Kankman]

lol wut.  I must've missed this stint.  "The intense sexual nature of the banter was really, really, rapey, and just plain gross."  Lmfao, get out of town, I call shenanigans.

I was pretty surprised myself, and in the end didn't make the complaint because I thought maybe I'm just getting old.

But seriously, I think I started playing around '99 or something, and never felt more repulsed from a group of PCs as I did in that week or so.


EDIT: This is just to say, that it's no surprise some people get turned off of Armageddon. We can be a vile bunch. All of us revel in it, to one degree or another, but sometimes it goes too far for some people, and off they fuck.

[SuchDragonWow]

I played a sarge in the Byn for about a year a while back and I saw all kinds of crazy stuff, some OOC stuff, some people who were clearly off their meds IRL, but I never felt like I needed to point on the doll where the bad words touched me.  I'm guessing it was pretty over the top.

[Reiloth]

Keep in mind a 'player complaint' isn't necessarily to get someone in trouble. It can be to offer constructive feedback on what you view OOCly to be inappropriate. Bordering on 'rapey' with sexual banter can be a grey area that goes against the rules -- It isn't an attempt to get them in trouble, but set them on the right path. I think Staff has done a pretty good job of that in recent memory, esp. with the request tool accountability. Back in the day, good luck with the emails.

[Desertman]

Yeah, if you felt they were violating some rule you should have reported them.

Based on what you have said though, they weren't.

It sounds like they were playing extremely vulgar and terrible people who get paid to murder other people in the name of money who were actively making an effort to express just how morally bankrupt they were.

That's not for everyone.

The Atrium is a good alternative for the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Delirium]

Having genderbended and seen for myself how the males in armageddon talk about female characters when they think no girls are around...

Hoo BOY.

I can easily see how a new player - especially someone less familiar with the intensity of truly roleplay-focused muds - could be driven away.

Regardless of what you think of the topic itself, it's worth keeping in mind that "harsh" should not come at the expense of everyone else's OOC comfort levels.

[Reiloth]

Regardless of what you think of the topic itself, it's worth keeping in mind that "harsh" should not come at the expense of everyone else's OOC comfort levels.

This I agree with 100%, and why I think the Player Complaint tool is useful in this regard. If you think someone is doing this, on purpose at that, you can file a complaint to have Staff take a look into it. It will at the very least just put it/them/the situation on their radar to monitor. I've rarely had more than an acknowledgement for my player complaint -- "Thanks for putting this in, we'll look into it." I've never had a 'Yeah you're right, that guy was mean, we're gonna git him." Staff's been very even-handed from what i've experienced personally. They look into it, see what's what, and act on it or don't, and they don't let you know after the fact 'We dealt with Soandso'.

I suppose this is why I don't feel it's a bad thing to file a player complaint for something like this. Is it against the rules? Probably not, but sexual RP that borders on rapey is more of a grey area. Letting someone know (who maybe isn't aware of it, either being a new player, or just unaware) isn't a bad thing in my book. I don't think people should file player complaints willy nilly, that's not good, but if you've got a feeling you should let Staff know about something, either do it in your Character Reports or file a complaint I think.

[Desertman]

Having genderbended and seen for myself how the males in armageddon talk about female characters when they think no girls are around...

Hoo BOY.

I can easily see how a new player - especially someone less familiar with the intensity of truly roleplay-focused muds - could be driven away.

Regardless of what you think of the topic itself, it's worth keeping in mind that "harsh" should not come at the expense of everyone else's OOC comfort levels.

Eh, so long as I'm playing within the rules of the game I am working under the assumption they have also read the rules of the game and understand what to expect.

If they have a personal issue they should submit a report against me and see how that works for them.

Otherwise, adult game, adult themes, extremely rough situations usually involving extremely rough and terrible people in the extreme.



With that being said, the only notes I've ever gotten were specifically stating exactly how considerate I am of other players...many times over.

I play some of the worst, horrible, nasty, and vulgar PC's imaginable at times.

Not arguing for making people uncomfortable. I'm just saying:

If they aren't breaking the rules it is not their responsibility to change themselves for your feelings. It is your responsibility to report them and have a staffer either rebuke them to solve the problem if there is one, or possibly help you understand your situation is in fact that....your situation.

Then again I'm not easily offended by very much in the game, so, I'm willing to admit I'm voicing an opinion completely from one side of the trench.

[Barsook]

I'm wondering if we should write a guide on what characters and concepts are prefect for newbies for Allanak.  This includes combat-types and non-combat-types.  I feel like we have a lot of (good) information scattered around here and it should be in one place here and on the main site.

[th3kaiser]

Uhm, yeah. Why should I worry about people's OOC comfort levels if I'm following the rules? This isn't that game and I wouldn't be playing it if it was.

[Lizzie]

Having genderbended and seen for myself how the males in armageddon talk about female characters when they think no girls are around...

Hoo BOY.

I can easily see how a new player - especially someone less familiar with the intensity of truly roleplay-focused muds - could be driven away.

Regardless of what you think of the topic itself, it's worth keeping in mind that "harsh" should not come at the expense of everyone else's OOC comfort levels.

Eh, so long as I'm playing within the rules of the game I am working under the assumption they have also read the rules of the game and understand what to expect.

If they have a personal issue they should submit a report against me and see how that works for them.

Otherwise, adult game, adult themes, extremely rough situations usually involving extremely rough and terrible people in the extreme.



With that being said, the only notes I've ever gotten were specifically stating exactly how considerate I am of other players...many times over.

I play some of the worst, horrible, nasty, and vulgar PC's imaginable at times.

Not arguing for making people uncomfortable. I'm just saying:

If they aren't breaking the rules it is not their responsibility to change themselves for your feelings. It is your responsibility to report them and have a staffer either rebuke them to solve the problem if there is one, or possibly help you understand your situation is in fact that....your situation.

Then again I'm not easily offended by very much in the game, so, I'm willing to admit I'm voicing an opinion completely from one side of the trench.

Problem is - when you do something that's OOCly uncomfortable to me, most of the times I can just shrug it off. But if you're in my clan, and my character has to deal with you every RL day, and he's my character's boss, so I can't just tell him to fuck off ICly - it makes me want to not log in. It's not that I have a thin skin. It's just that you can only stretch it so far before it's time to say "enough."